Tell me about adoption

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"A 2016 study by The Donaldson Adoption Institute shows that Gellin's [birthmother] experience is not uncommon, and not the worst of what some birth parents endure during the adoption process.

It found that nearly 85 percent of surveyed mothers would have liked to know more about available parenting resources—such as housing, medical, childcare, and food assistance, parenting classes, and counseling—before deciding to go the adoption route.

Furthermore, almost 78 percent wish they had known more about the implications of placement." ...

"The second phase of the study by The Donaldson Adoption Institute, released in 2017, found that more than half of the surveyed birth mothers felt coerced into adoption in some way during pregnancy, either by their partners/families or by the agencies themselves.

Subtle coercion by agencies can begin with agency pamphlets themselves: promising the child emotional and financial stability and parents who can provide the best education.

The Donaldson researchers found that, during the first few meetings with birth parents, agencies tended to go straight into adoption logistics without covering other options and relevant information, such as parenting resources, access to independent counselors and legal representation, and support groups before and after birth.

Additionally, information gained about the expectant parent's life—for example, concerns about finances or emotional support—are often used to dissuade a woman from changing her mind later. The researchers also found that some adoption professionals only considered their work successful if the adoption goes through.

For her book The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption, journalist Kathryn Joyce spoke to dozens of women whose experiences matched those in the Donaldson study.

Both also found that, whether intended or not, the practice of matching—when expectant parents choose the family who will raise her child—increases the belief that someone else should be raising her child.

The process usually involves giving expectant parents profile books or websites made by prospective adoptive families that, Joyce told VICE, are "often showing their class and the lifestyle that they could provide to a child, which serves as a form of pressure in and of itself.”

And as the expectant parent and prospective adoptive parents form a relationship, that pressure compounds, said Joyce—especially if the prospective parents are present for the baby’s birth.

The women Joyce talked to “were made to feel that they were not competent or deserving of keeping the child that they wanted,” she said, “that somebody else was a better-suited parent, and that the non-selfish thing to do would be to give the child up.”

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvg45m/the-devious-ways-parents-are-pressured-to-give-up-their-children-for-adoption

I would not be able to gloss over this if I were to adopt. But what can you do to make sure that the birth mother was not coerced or pressured?

I think it should be mandated reading for any prospective adoptive family. I also think that proper 3rd party counseling and legal assistance, NOT by the agency nor adoptive family nor medical provider, be a federal mandate.

Keep reading the article to see how with the intervention of one organization, there were hundreds of mothers/parents who were able to keep their babies with the help of someone finding sources of assistance - housing, WIC, etc.

I found this to be particularly troubling and I know personally that this isn't the only case. IMO any health care professional who preys on a prospective/new mother and coerces an adoption out of them should lose their license and be brought up on Federal charges. This is absolutely criminal...

"One of SOS’s 304 women was Sarah Johnson.

When Johnson (whose name has been changed for privacy), gave birth to her second child in April 2018, she didn’t know anything about adoption. She, too, suffered hyperemesis with both of her pregnancies. Johnson was a 25-year-old stay-at-home mom and, during her pregnancy, her boyfriend lost his job. Then, the couple lost their house. They moved in with his family, who said there wouldn’t be room once the baby came. “It was just a lot of things,” she said. “I was feeling super negative.”

At the hospital, Johnson and her labor and delivery nurse talked for hours. Johnson spoke of her fears of having two children and the possibility of having to start over without her boyfriend. The nurse began to say things like, “you have so much on your plate and maybe it is too much,” Johnson recalled. She suggested that adoption could alleviate some of the pressure.

Eventually, Johnson had been awake for 48 hours, was taking pain medication post-childbirth, and agreed that the nurse was right. With that, an adoption facilitator arrived at the hospital with the prospective adoptive parents, Johnson recalled. “I was terrified,” Johnson said. “The doctors at the hospital, the nurses, everybody was like, ‘This is such a selfless thing. You can tell you love your kids because you’re trying to do what’s best.’”

"My whole body missed my baby."

Johnson and her boyfriend later met with an agency-affiliated social worker. In her state, parents cannot consent to adoption until 72 hours after birth. They were a few hours early. She recalled that the social worker changed the time on the documents to be in compliance with the law, which Johnson found concerning.

After two days, Johnson wasn’t sleeping or eating; she was crying on the floor and her milk was coming in. “My whole body missed my baby,” she said.

Johnson asked an online birth parent support group if anyone knew how to revoke an adoption. Someone connected her to SOS. The next day, Gelin had someone writing the revocation letter and paid for it to be notarized. She set Johnson up with a Sister on the Ground named Rebecca Lopez, and warned that the facilitator, agency, and the couple were likely to attack."

I will definitely read the whole article, thanks. It sounds like currently there isn't a good way to know whether your child's birth mother was coerced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the anti adoption poster, do you think all adoption is wrong? I agree we should do more to allow people to parent their kids but given all the abused and dead kids I keep reading about you might be better served to try and work with those parents who kept their kids only to be cruel to them. My adopted child’s bio mom was raped. She didn’t want an abortion but knew she couldn’t love this child. She made the right choice for herself and her child in placing her for adoption. The bio Das has no clue, because he was a rapist. We know lots of other adoptive families and none of them have a savior complex, we just love our kids.

No, i do not think all adoption is wrong. I have not said that nor has anyone said this in this thread. I also would never describe myself as "anti adoption," and probably not the others either. I wish your family the best!

But the numbers of babies or very young children for adoption is greatly declined, and I think that's a good thing. Families are being preserved. International adoptions are down. Women are just less likely to give up their kids. I think this is a good development overall (just not for people who want to adopt). Meanwhile lots of older kids, many with special needs, and sibling groups in foster care need loving people in their lives.

Adoption in previous generations was sold as "poor infants in need!" When OFTEN (not always) it was really baby snatching from vulnerable women. But the former savior narrative makes everyone feel good.

If aspiring adoptive parents hear "adoption has trauma in it," I would like to know that they appreciate that, want to read more about it, want to do the best they can, rather than "no I can't hear that, God gave me this baby! Love is all we need!"

Really, it didn't have to go in this direction if some PPs here had a hold on reality.

Start your own thread and get some mental health treatment.

DP. Sorry but the comment above IS relevant to this thread. It brings up a differing perspective which does not mean it should not be welcome if people want to have honest insights as to adoption and the process. If you don't agree that's fine but telling someone they have a mental health issue because they have a differing viewpoint actually speaks more to your own mentality than the PP.

It has zero relevance and they are discussing things that are showing that they are having mental health issues.

A PP literally asked "do you believe all adoption is wrong?" So I responded to the question. Sorry, but you're not the decider on what does and does not get to be asked or responded to in this thread. I have said my piece and would be happy to leave this thread to the "what country/what agency" discussion, but you keep popping up with gaslighting and empty, nonsensical statements. You haven't said anything with any substance in it at all, aside from perhaps your argument that OP did not intend for this thread to encompass these topics, but OP has not chimed in, so we don't know!

As far as mental health issues, it's pretty obvious that you are projecting. I'm sorry that in your delicate state of mental health, you cannot stand to hear well reasoned opinions that are contrary to your opinions, whatever they may be. I can tell you this, you're not persuading anybody here who has a brain. In addition, you seem to believe that the criticisms of adoption are coming from one person, so maybe you're mixing up the back stories. There are several PPs here who talked about negative experiences. Not just one.

Start your own thread on the evils of adoption.

You are a troll that really needs to be muted here. I hope there's some action in removing you from this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the anti adoption poster, do you think all adoption is wrong? I agree we should do more to allow people to parent their kids but given all the abused and dead kids I keep reading about you might be better served to try and work with those parents who kept their kids only to be cruel to them. My adopted child’s bio mom was raped. She didn’t want an abortion but knew she couldn’t love this child. She made the right choice for herself and her child in placing her for adoption. The bio Das has no clue, because he was a rapist. We know lots of other adoptive families and none of them have a savior complex, we just love our kids.

No, i do not think all adoption is wrong. I have not said that nor has anyone said this in this thread. I also would never describe myself as "anti adoption," and probably not the others either. I wish your family the best!

But the numbers of babies or very young children for adoption is greatly declined, and I think that's a good thing. Families are being preserved. International adoptions are down. Women are just less likely to give up their kids. I think this is a good development overall (just not for people who want to adopt). Meanwhile lots of older kids, many with special needs, and sibling groups in foster care need loving people in their lives.

Adoption in previous generations was sold as "poor infants in need!" When OFTEN (not always) it was really baby snatching from vulnerable women. But the former savior narrative makes everyone feel good.

If aspiring adoptive parents hear "adoption has trauma in it," I would like to know that they appreciate that, want to read more about it, want to do the best they can, rather than "no I can't hear that, God gave me this baby! Love is all we need!"

Really, it didn't have to go in this direction if some PPs here had a hold on reality.

Start your own thread and get some mental health treatment.

DP. Sorry but the comment above IS relevant to this thread. It brings up a differing perspective which does not mean it should not be welcome if people want to have honest insights as to adoption and the process. If you don't agree that's fine but telling someone they have a mental health issue because they have a differing viewpoint actually speaks more to your own mentality than the PP.

It has zero relevance and they are discussing things that are showing that they are having mental health issues.

A PP literally asked "do you believe all adoption is wrong?" So I responded to the question. Sorry, but you're not the decider on what does and does not get to be asked or responded to in this thread. I have said my piece and would be happy to leave this thread to the "what country/what agency" discussion, but you keep popping up with gaslighting and empty, nonsensical statements. You haven't said anything with any substance in it at all, aside from perhaps your argument that OP did not intend for this thread to encompass these topics, but OP has not chimed in, so we don't know!

As far as mental health issues, it's pretty obvious that you are projecting. I'm sorry that in your delicate state of mental health, you cannot stand to hear well reasoned opinions that are contrary to your opinions, whatever they may be. I can tell you this, you're not persuading anybody here who has a brain. In addition, you seem to believe that the criticisms of adoption are coming from one person, so maybe you're mixing up the back stories. There are several PPs here who talked about negative experiences. Not just one.

Start your own thread on the evils of adoption.

You are a troll that really needs to be muted here. I hope there's some action in removing you from this thread.

Actually you are the troll taking over threads and not keeping to topic. Get yourself some help.

[Anonymous]

I think anyone who put a baby up for adoption if asked later in life would say they were strongly encouraged by someone (family society adoption agency etc) just to save face and visit regrets. It’s only human. It doesn’t mean the decision was not the right one at the time.

[Anonymous]

It was so thrilling for us be at our baby's birth. We keep in touch wit the birth-mom 2x per year by sending photos. Pretty much all of the private adopters we know do this.

Adopt, OP, adopt. It is the best thing you will ever do in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the anti adoption poster, do you think all adoption is wrong? I agree we should do more to allow people to parent their kids but given all the abused and dead kids I keep reading about you might be better served to try and work with those parents who kept their kids only to be cruel to them. My adopted child’s bio mom was raped. She didn’t want an abortion but knew she couldn’t love this child. She made the right choice for herself and her child in placing her for adoption. The bio Das has no clue, because he was a rapist. We know lots of other adoptive families and none of them have a savior complex, we just love our kids.

No, i do not think all adoption is wrong. I have not said that nor has anyone said this in this thread. I also would never describe myself as "anti adoption," and probably not the others either. I wish your family the best!

But the numbers of babies or very young children for adoption is greatly declined, and I think that's a good thing. Families are being preserved. International adoptions are down. Women are just less likely to give up their kids. I think this is a good development overall (just not for people who want to adopt). Meanwhile lots of older kids, many with special needs, and sibling groups in foster care need loving people in their lives.

Adoption in previous generations was sold as "poor infants in need!" When OFTEN (not always) it was really baby snatching from vulnerable women. But the former savior narrative makes everyone feel good.

If aspiring adoptive parents hear "adoption has trauma in it," I would like to know that they appreciate that, want to read more about it, want to do the best they can, rather than "no I can't hear that, God gave me this baby! Love is all we need!"

Really, it didn't have to go in this direction if some PPs here had a hold on reality.

Start your own thread and get some mental health treatment.

DP. Sorry but the comment above IS relevant to this thread. It brings up a differing perspective which does not mean it should not be welcome if people want to have honest insights as to adoption and the process. If you don't agree that's fine but telling someone they have a mental health issue because they have a differing viewpoint actually speaks more to your own mentality than the PP.

It has zero relevance and they are discussing things that are showing that they are having mental health issues.

A PP literally asked "do you believe all adoption is wrong?" So I responded to the question. Sorry, but you're not the decider on what does and does not get to be asked or responded to in this thread. I have said my piece and would be happy to leave this thread to the "what country/what agency" discussion, but you keep popping up with gaslighting and empty, nonsensical statements. You haven't said anything with any substance in it at all, aside from perhaps your argument that OP did not intend for this thread to encompass these topics, but OP has not chimed in, so we don't know!

As far as mental health issues, it's pretty obvious that you are projecting. I'm sorry that in your delicate state of mental health, you cannot stand to hear well reasoned opinions that are contrary to your opinions, whatever they may be. I can tell you this, you're not persuading anybody here who has a brain. In addition, you seem to believe that the criticisms of adoption are coming from one person, so maybe you're mixing up the back stories. There are several PPs here who talked about negative experiences. Not just one.

Start your own thread on the evils of adoption.

You are a troll that really needs to be muted here. I hope there's some action in removing you from this thread.

Actually you are the troll taking over threads and not keeping to topic. Get yourself some help.

You are talking to probably 20 or more people. I haven't had any one continual conversation with you, but it seems many others have. You need to be called out here. And, while we are at it...you are the one who needs serious help. You are a one note troll with nothing to offer. Your commentary is childish, but also disturbing. Educate yourself.

Calling you out here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who put a baby up for adoption if asked later in life would say they were strongly encouraged by someone (family society adoption agency etc) just to save face and visit regrets. It’s only human. It doesn’t mean the decision was not the right one at the time.

And what is best for the baby may not be what feels best to the mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think anyone who put a baby up for adoption if asked later in life would say they were strongly encouraged by someone (family society adoption agency etc) just to save face and visit regrets. It’s only human. It doesn’t mean the decision was not the right one at the time.


And what is best for the baby may not be what feels best to the mom.

This. There is a considerable amount of selfishness involved when women have children too early, without being in a stable relationship, without any means to support the child, and then go on to have other children (also by itinerant uncommitted relationships), and refuse to consider adoption or relinquishing custody (in the instance of kids who are placed into revolving foster care placements because bio mom can't ever get her act together). Relisha Rudd would be alive today if her mother had once considered the best interests of the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think anyone who put a baby up for adoption if asked later in life would say they were strongly encouraged by someone (family society adoption agency etc) just to save face and visit regrets. It’s only human. It doesn’t mean the decision was not the right one at the time.


And what is best for the baby may not be what feels best to the mom.

This. There is a considerable amount of selfishness involved when women have children too early, without being in a stable relationship, without any means to support the child, and then go on to have other children (also by itinerant uncommitted relationships), and refuse to consider adoption or relinquishing custody (in the instance of kids who are placed into revolving foster care placements because bio mom can't ever get her act together). Relisha Rudd would be alive today if her mother had once considered the best interests of the child.

No. "Selfishness" is not in play when you're talking about a mother and her own child. WTAF??

Abuse and neglect is a separate issue. Biological parents have been known to abuse and neglect their children. Adoptive parents have been known to abuse and neglect their children. There have been murder cases in both circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Selfishness is EXACTLY what it is. My child sat as a ward of the state for years more than was necessary because neither birth parent or extended family was willing to relinquish custody and release the child for adoption. Nor did they ever visit or provide support. Women who cannot face the reality that they are unable to meet their child's basic needs and seek a better life for that child are the definition of selfish. There is an interim societal position between the evils of past coercive practices and the emphasis on biological family preservation that exists now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selfishness is EXACTLY what it is. My child sat as a ward of the state for years more than was necessary because neither birth parent or extended family was willing to relinquish custody and release the child for adoption. Nor did they ever visit or provide support. Women who cannot face the reality that they are unable to meet their child's basic needs and seek a better life for that child are the definition of selfish. There is an interim societal position between the evils of past coercive practices and the emphasis on biological family preservation that exists now.

There are plenty of toxic foster situations as well- and adoptions where the child's needs were never meant. So, this is probably not a good argument. How about resources to help families, period?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selfishness is EXACTLY what it is. My child sat as a ward of the state for years more than was necessary because neither birth parent or extended family was willing to relinquish custody and release the child for adoption. Nor did they ever visit or provide support. Women who cannot face the reality that they are unable to meet their child's basic needs and seek a better life for that child are the definition of selfish. There is an interim societal position between the evils of past coercive practices and the emphasis on biological family preservation that exists now.

You sound selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are the anti adoption poster, do you think all adoption is wrong? I agree we should do more to allow people to parent their kids but given all the abused and dead kids I keep reading about you might be better served to try and work with those parents who kept their kids only to be cruel to them. My adopted child’s bio mom was raped. She didn’t want an abortion but knew she couldn’t love this child. She made the right choice for herself and her child in placing her for adoption. The bio Das has no clue, because he was a rapist. We know lots of other adoptive families and none of them have a savior complex, we just love our kids.

No, i do not think all adoption is wrong. I have not said that nor has anyone said this in this thread. I also would never describe myself as "anti adoption," and probably not the others either. I wish your family the best!

But the numbers of babies or very young children for adoption is greatly declined, and I think that's a good thing. Families are being preserved. International adoptions are down. Women are just less likely to give up their kids. I think this is a good development overall (just not for people who want to adopt). Meanwhile lots of older kids, many with special needs, and sibling groups in foster care need loving people in their lives.

Adoption in previous generations was sold as "poor infants in need!" When OFTEN (not always) it was really baby snatching from vulnerable women. But the former savior narrative makes everyone feel good.

If aspiring adoptive parents hear "adoption has trauma in it," I would like to know that they appreciate that, want to read more about it, want to do the best they can, rather than "no I can't hear that, God gave me this baby! Love is all we need!"

Really, it didn't have to go in this direction if some PPs here had a hold on reality.

Start your own thread and get some mental health treatment.

DP. Sorry but the comment above IS relevant to this thread. It brings up a differing perspective which does not mean it should not be welcome if people want to have honest insights as to adoption and the process. If you don't agree that's fine but telling someone they have a mental health issue because they have a differing viewpoint actually speaks more to your own mentality than the PP.

It has zero relevance and they are discussing things that are showing that they are having mental health issues.

A PP literally asked "do you believe all adoption is wrong?" So I responded to the question. Sorry, but you're not the decider on what does and does not get to be asked or responded to in this thread. I have said my piece and would be happy to leave this thread to the "what country/what agency" discussion, but you keep popping up with gaslighting and empty, nonsensical statements. You haven't said anything with any substance in it at all, aside from perhaps your argument that OP did not intend for this thread to encompass these topics, but OP has not chimed in, so we don't know!

As far as mental health issues, it's pretty obvious that you are projecting. I'm sorry that in your delicate state of mental health, you cannot stand to hear well reasoned opinions that are contrary to your opinions, whatever they may be. I can tell you this, you're not persuading anybody here who has a brain. In addition, you seem to believe that the criticisms of adoption are coming from one person, so maybe you're mixing up the back stories. There are several PPs here who talked about negative experiences. Not just one.

Start your own thread on the evils of adoption.

You are a troll that really needs to be muted here. I hope there's some action in removing you from this thread.

Actually you are the troll taking over threads and not keeping to topic. Get yourself some help.

You are talking to probably 20 or more people. I haven't had any one continual conversation with you, but it seems many others have. You need to be called out here. And, while we are at it...you are the one who needs serious help. You are a one note troll with nothing to offer. Your commentary is childish, but also disturbing. Educate yourself.

Calling you out here.

You really need to get help. Start your own thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selfishness is EXACTLY what it is. My child sat as a ward of the state for years more than was necessary because neither birth parent or extended family was willing to relinquish custody and release the child for adoption. Nor did they ever visit or provide support. Women who cannot face the reality that they are unable to meet their child's basic needs and seek a better life for that child are the definition of selfish. There is an interim societal position between the evils of past coercive practices and the emphasis on biological family preservation that exists now.

You're not entitled to someone else's child no matter the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selfishness is EXACTLY what it is. My child sat as a ward of the state for years more than was necessary because neither birth parent or extended family was willing to relinquish custody and release the child for adoption. Nor did they ever visit or provide support. Women who cannot face the reality that they are unable to meet their child's basic needs and seek a better life for that child are the definition of selfish. There is an interim societal position between the evils of past coercive practices and the emphasis on biological family preservation that exists now.

Who said the evils of coercive practices are in the past? The Vice article posted by a PP above found that this was still happening very recently, and nothing has changed, no safeguards have been put in place to ensure it doesn't happen.