PSA: Please do not host a Christian seder

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The privilege on display here is sad, but unsurprising.

Newsflash: You can go do whatever you want in your own home and in your own house of worship, too!

Newsflash: it’s not ok to appropriate people’s cultures or religions.

Christianity was founded by Jews, and as adapted and merged them with other cultures. The Hebrew Scriptures are the foundation for the New Testament and are an important part of the Bible.

So Judaism is Christianity Jr. to you. You realize that Jews don’t see it that way? For the umpteenth time, nobody owns Exodus, but Passover is a Jewish rite.

Guess what? The stories in the New Testament of the Christian Bible are a big part of Islam. Jesus is a prophet in the Quran—and not even the most important one! I’m Christian and I can deal with that. You need to find a way to deal with the fact that Judaism and Christianity (and Islam) have a lot of overlap and most of it is in the Torah and old testament.

And you need to accept that Judaism is a distinct religion and you can’t just insert Jesus into our traditions.

I’m the PP: Here’s what you keep missing: Passover is part of the Christian holy book. It’s not the most important part but it is there. It’s not your place to dictate to Christians how to celebrate passover any more than it is for Christians to dictate how Muslims use the Jesus stories in their religion.

[Anonymous]

Here's another.

https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/how-to-host-a-passover-seder/

"The point is to remember God’s deliverance, and to see the Messiah in the Passover. "

These people think matzo represents Jesus and wine/grape juice his blood!!

There are tons of churches that promote them too, and they are all about Jesus, not about actually celebrating Judaism, like this one:

https://www.pcommn.org/thoughts-from-pastor-john/2020/4/9/the-christian-seder-instructions

[Anonymous]

“A Christian Seder absolutely involves inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. That’s the entire reason it’s offensive.”

All of Christianity is about inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. He was a Jew. Just because you find it offensive doesn’t mean others cannot practice their religion however they choose to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The privilege on display here is sad, but unsurprising.

Newsflash: You can go do whatever you want in your own home and in your own house of worship, too!

Newsflash: it’s not ok to appropriate people’s cultures or religions.

Christianity was founded by Jews, and as adapted and merged them with other cultures. The Hebrew Scriptures are the foundation for the New Testament and are an important part of the Bible.

So Judaism is Christianity Jr. to you. You realize that Jews don’t see it that way? For the umpteenth time, nobody owns Exodus, but Passover is a Jewish rite.

Guess what? The stories in the New Testament of the Christian Bible are a big part of Islam. Jesus is a prophet in the Quran—and not even the most important one! I’m Christian and I can deal with that. You need to find a way to deal with the fact that Judaism and Christianity (and Islam) have a lot of overlap and most of it is in the Torah and old testament.

And you need to accept that Judaism is a distinct religion and you can’t just insert Jesus into our traditions.

I’m the PP: Here’s what you keep missing: Passover is part of the Christian holy book. It’s not the most important part but it is there. It’s not your place to dictate to Christians how to celebrate passover any more than it is for Christians to dictate how Muslims use the Jesus stories in their religion.

Imposing Jesus onto the Passover Seder—which is what a Christian Seder does—is an erasure of Jewish tradition. It simply is. Our Seder has never had anything to do with Jesus.

Passover as written in the Bible has nothing to do with Passover, the Jewish holiday. Nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's another.

https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/how-to-host-a-passover-seder/

"The point is to remember God’s deliverance, and to see the Messiah in the Passover. "

These people think matzo represents Jesus and wine/grape juice his blood!!

There are tons of churches that promote them too, and they are all about Jesus, not about actually celebrating Judaism, like this one:

https://www.pcommn.org/thoughts-from-pastor-john/2020/4/9/the-christian-seder-instructions

“These people think matzo represents Jesus and wine/grape juice his blood!!” - yes, that is what Communion is for Christians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“A Christian Seder absolutely involves inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. That’s the entire reason it’s offensive.”

All of Christianity is about inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. He was a Jew. Just because you find it offensive doesn’t mean others cannot practice their religion however they choose to.

Yes you CAN. But should you? Do you care about being a good ecumenical friend?

It's cultural appropriation 100%.

To be blunt, Christians took our holy books (the Tanak) and called it the "Old Testament." They grabbed what they wanted -- the Ten Commandments -- and discarded what they didn't want -- circumcision for example. And then they persecuted us for centuries for practicing our religion, so that many Jews had to convert to survive, or practice in secret.

If you want to show solidarity with Jews, celebrate Passover WITH Jews. Don't take this very important holiday and turn into a Christian event. It's not. Jesus wasn't at a seder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jews having a Christmas tree is not the same thing as Christians hosting a seder. But thanks for making it all about Christians.

actually it is. As a Christian I believe in the Passover story. A Jewish person does t actually believe Jesus was Gods son.

The Old Testament is part of Christianity. It’s part of the Christian religious tradition. Similarly, much of the Bible also overlaps with the Quran — it’s part of the Islamic religion. I don’t think many Christians realize that Jesus is a prophet in the Quran. Similarly, many Jews discount the relevance of Jewish prophets in Christianity. The three religions have so much overlap that we are called the people of the book.

Sigh. The New Testament is a new covenant which abrogated the law of the Old Testament. That's ... kind of the whole point of Christianity?

This is false. Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Matthew 5:17

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“A Christian Seder absolutely involves inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. That’s the entire reason it’s offensive.”

All of Christianity is about inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. He was a Jew. Just because you find it offensive doesn’t mean others cannot practice their religion however they choose to.

LOLOL! If Christianity were about "inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions" then you would still celebrate all the same holidays. The reality is that the religion you refer to as Christianity is a rapid departure of that which the ancient Israelites followed and has nothing to do with modern Judaism.

Christianity explicitly rejects much of the Old Testament. You don't follow Purim, you don't follow Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur. You reject the book of life and Kashrut. You believe in eternal damnation, contradicted by the Old Testament and modern Judaism alike. Most of you reject sex as a positive act, which Jews have supported as part of their religion since the beginning. In fact, the best thing, in the eyes of God, that a Jewish couple can do on Shabbat is have sex. Most Christians rejects abortion, which is both legal and fine under the Jewish tradition and fine by the standards of the ancient Israelites. And then Christians persecuted Jews for rejecting your beliefs for 2000 plus years. If you want to appropriate our culture and holidays, god bless, but to act like your religion is simply an update of Judaism is both laughable and factually untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's another.

https://www.chosenpeople.com/site/how-to-host-a-passover-seder/

"The point is to remember God’s deliverance, and to see the Messiah in the Passover. "

These people think matzo represents Jesus and wine/grape juice his blood!!

There are tons of churches that promote them too, and they are all about Jesus, not about actually celebrating Judaism, like this one:

https://www.pcommn.org/thoughts-from-pastor-john/2020/4/9/the-christian-seder-instructions

“These people think matzo represents Jesus and wine/grape juice his blood!!” - yes, that is what Communion is for Christians.

And why the hell does that have anything to do with Passover?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder: if any other minority group was saying something was offensive to them, would they be getting this much pushback?

I guess it would depend if the people making that argument also had reading comprehension problems like we have here. The bulk of this thread is invented by one or two people pushing an agenda that lots of Christians have Passover seders when that isn’t true.

If it’s not common, then why are there so many articles urging Christians to not do it, including in mainstream publications like WaPo?

NP here, but I’m not concerned with how many people do something in their homes. I am very concerned, however, with WaPo — or anyone — urging people not to take part in a religious celebration. We have religious freedom in this country.

No one is saying you legally can’t do it.

You can do whatever you want — you can put on blackface and have a minstrel show in your home.
8
Doesn’t make it right, and people would rightly urge you against it, despite the 1st Amendment allowing for freedom of expression.

Again, I don’t care what people do in the privacy of their home and I don’t care how people practice their religion. I find lots of things offensive but can’t imagine writing a piece in the WaPo telling people how to practice their religion (at home no less).

[Anonymous]

The Book of Exodus means a great deal to me as a Christian. I have not nor ever would host or attend a “Christian Seder.”
But I have and will continue to attend Passover meals at my church. That does not have to make sense to you, and you need not approve. Just like I don’t appreciate or understand aspects of other religions, but I would never dream of telling someone else how to worship in their own home or place of worship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder: if any other minority group was saying something was offensive to them, would they be getting this much pushback?

I guess it would depend if the people making that argument also had reading comprehension problems like we have here. The bulk of this thread is invented by one or two people pushing an agenda that lots of Christians have Passover seders when that isn’t true.

If it’s not common, then why are there so many articles urging Christians to not do it, including in mainstream publications like WaPo?

NP here, but I’m not concerned with how many people do something in their homes. I am very concerned, however, with WaPo — or anyone — urging people not to take part in a religious celebration. We have religious freedom in this country.

No one is saying you legally can’t do it.

You can do whatever you want — you can put on blackface and have a minstrel show in your home.
8
Doesn’t make it right, and people would rightly urge you against it, despite the 1st Amendment allowing for freedom of expression.

Again, I don’t care what people do in the privacy of their home and I don’t care how people practice their religion. I find lots of things offensive but can’t imagine writing a piece in the WaPo telling people how to practice their religion (at home no less).

So under that logic, people can do massively offensive things in their home and no one should care. Right?

[Anonymous]

We can’t stop you from doing it, but it would be empathetic for you to understand why it’s offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“A Christian Seder absolutely involves inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. That’s the entire reason it’s offensive.”

All of Christianity is about inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions. He was a Jew. Just because you find it offensive doesn’t mean others cannot practice their religion however they choose to.

LOLOL! If Christianity were about "inserting Jesus into Jewish traditions" then you would still celebrate all the same holidays. The reality is that the religion you refer to as Christianity is a rapid departure of that which the ancient Israelites followed and has nothing to do with modern Judaism.

Christianity explicitly rejects much of the Old Testament. You don't follow Purim, you don't follow Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur. You reject the book of life and Kashrut. You believe in eternal damnation, contradicted by the Old Testament and modern Judaism alike. Most of you reject sex as a positive act, which Jews have supported as part of their religion since the beginning. In fact, the best thing, in the eyes of God, that a Jewish couple can do on Shabbat is have sex. Most Christians rejects abortion, which is both legal and fine under the Jewish tradition and fine by the standards of the ancient Israelites. And then Christians persecuted Jews for rejecting your beliefs for 2000 plus years. If you want to appropriate our culture and holidays, god bless, but to act like your religion is simply an update of Judaism is both laughable and factually untrue.

I didn’t say Christianity is an update of Judaism. Jesus was a Jew and inserted himself in Jewish traditions by participating in them and commenting on them, often turning the tables (literally and figuratively) on the Jewish leaders he interacted with. Persecution of anyone is wrong, no matter who is doing the persecution. Jesus and early Christians were Jewish and nothing in the New Testament would support persecuting Jews or anyone. Would you be offended if Christians followed Purim and Rosh Hashanah?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We can’t stop you from doing it, but it would be empathetic for you to understand why it’s offensive.

I’m a very empathetic person. I genuinely do not see how it’s offensive.