Teen is all over his sister

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is failing all of our daughters by doing NOTHING.

That's a little dramatic. OP doesn't know my daughter so she isn't failing her. And also OP said she was calling CPS in the morning anyways. This pitchfork mentality is kind of alarming.

+1

I hope OP asks Jeff to lock this thread.

Please lock this thread. It's getting hysterical.

I’m sorry, there’s absolutely nothing hysterical about sexual abuse.

What’s wrong with you?? What are you afraid of?

That’s the point exactly. You have no idea if sex abuse is going on in that house. Maybe it is. Maybe it’s not and that’s just their teasing sibling relationship as he kids mother has said. You guys are getting out of control here without many facts.

Getting pinned on the floor and forcibly kissed IS abuse.

If the kids are 8 and 5? Or thereabouts? Stop. You didn’t witness it. For all you know they were playing. All OP said about it was it was “years ago”. So, both were younger children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend has a 13 year old boy and a 10 year old girl. The boy has been very physical in playing with his sister. It's always initiated by him, not her. He constantly touches her, picks her up, holds her, he used to lie on top of her on the floor and kiss her.

His mom thinks it's just brother sister love but it looks weird to me. The still sleep in the same room.

Today we hung out together at the pool and he would just pick her up and hold her close to his body and touch her like she's his toy the whole time we were there.

Is this normal sibling affection?

This is called ABUSE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

[Anonymous]

OP did not say “the girl seemed happy with it”, liar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has he gone through puberty yet?

If that is how it has always been and he hasn't yet gone through puberty then I don't think it is that weird. If the sister likes the affection and the kids are just close then physical affection isn't a bad thing.

OP here. He was weird like this a few years ago. For example, he would get on top of her on the floor and lie there and kiss her.

I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves.

This is exactly how certain parents teach their daughters, they ‘deserved’ to be raped. Your brother feels like “playing” with you, so give it up, because he’s stronger than you are, and we, your own parents think HIS perverted desires are more important than protecting our little girls. Monsters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

NOT what the OP said at all. She said the girl seems to check out and tolerate it, and when she does say no she is ignored by her brother and her parents. She said the girl does NOT seek him out to touch him AT ALL. And she said the boy holds her close and touches her all over like she is her toy. AT THE POOL. In front of everyone. I don't know a 10 yr old who would tolerate that - DO YOU? 10 yr olds jump and play in the water at the pool with their friends. They may ask an older sibling to throw them in. that is it! They aren't cuddling with their teenage older sibling at the pool.

You really just read what you wanted to read, see what you want to see - not unlike this poor girl's parents. The whole situation is not okay at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

No, OP said that the girl fights back but can't win, so she seems to disengage and go along with it because her No is not respected. To quote:

"I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves."

I didn't put quote marks around rubbing on her, but here you go:

"Today we hung out together at the pool and he would just pick her up and hold her close to his body and touch her like she's his toy the whole time we were there." That's rubbing on her. It's not a bear hug or innocent to hold your little sister against your body for the entire length of a pool party. WTF is wrong with you, seriously?

She asked if the girl could sleep with another girl on the vacation and mom wouldn't hear it, so yes, she's forcing them in a room together. And she doesn't help when the girl says no. And she doesn't tell her son to respect boundaries. YOU are making things up by pretending the little girl "seems happy with it" when that's the opposite of what OP said. You are heavily invested in this little girl not getting help. It's not a good look.

[Anonymous]

We clearly have a pervert on this thread....

[Anonymous]

Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

I've got the number and read the process (apparently can't do it anonymously), but decided to wait till next weekend to confirm my suspicions before I ruin everyone's life.

What I saw is not normal. I'm not 100% sure it's sexual. But I'm sure it's not normal. He's holding her too long and too much. It's too much physical contact. Also, I'm sure the boundaries are being walked over.

I'm going to ask the girl if she prefers to stay with DD in the room and if she does, I'll insist she does.

I'm going to watch her with her brother together very closely.

I'm also going to have a serious talk with her mother and tell her that I suspect the girl is being abused and this is not child rough housing, that they should respect her boundaries.

I'm going to invite the girl to sleep at our house on weekends. I'll try to gently talk to her to see how she's doing.

I brought it up with DH and he said he thinks the boy has always treated his sister like a toy (not sexually, but like his property) and parents let him do it. But he didn't notice anything sexual.

However, my concern is that the boy is going through puberty so who knows what he is going to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

No, OP said that the girl fights back but can't win, so she seems to disengage and go along with it because her No is not respected. To quote:

"I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves."

I didn't put quote marks around rubbing on her, but here you go:

"Today we hung out together at the pool and he would just pick her up and hold her close to his body and touch her like she's his toy the whole time we were there." That's rubbing on her. It's not a bear hug or innocent to hold your little sister against your body for the entire length of a pool party. WTF is wrong with you, seriously?

She asked if the girl could sleep with another girl on the vacation and mom wouldn't hear it, so yes, she's forcing them in a room together. And she doesn't help when the girl says no. And she doesn't tell her son to respect boundaries. YOU are making things up by pretending the little girl "seems happy with it" when that's the opposite of what OP said. You are heavily invested in this little girl not getting help. It's not a good look.

OP literally said the girl didn’t seem unhappy with it. And she said the mom said she wanted her kids to share a room at the vacation house because that’s what her kids wanted to do. Not that the brother was forcing her to. You are reading a lot into her posts. Even OP admits that no one else sees this stuff as a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I've got the number and read the process (apparently can't do it anonymously), but decided to wait till next weekend to confirm my suspicions before I ruin everyone's life.

What I saw is not normal. I'm not 100% sure it's sexual. But I'm sure it's not normal. He's holding her too long and too much. It's too much physical contact. Also, I'm sure the boundaries are being walked over.

I'm going to ask the girl if she prefers to stay with DD in the room and if she does, I'll insist she does.

I'm going to watch her with her brother together very closely.

I'm also going to have a serious talk with her mother and tell her that I suspect the girl is being abused and this is not child rough housing, that they should respect her boundaries.

I'm going to invite the girl to sleep at our house on weekends. I'll try to gently talk to her to see how she's doing.

I brought it up with DH and he said he thinks the boy has always treated his sister like a toy (not sexually, but like his property) and parents let him do it. But he didn't notice anything sexual.

However, my concern is that the boy is going through puberty so who knows what he is going to do.

You sound rational OP. I think that’s a great plan. You’re keeping your eyes open and letting the girl know she is welcome at your place or on your daughters room, but you aren’t jumping to conclusions in a way that might throw their family into chaos needlessly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.