Teen is all over his sister

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does.

No, other people have commented on this, as well.
This family doesn't have other friends really. We're the closest ones although we don't see them very often.

Our common aquatintence also have commented on the inappropriate kissing and touching a few years ago, but that was when they were smaller kids. So everyone wrote it off to affection. But now it's starting to look very weird.

[Anonymous]

Good plan, OP, and thanks for the update.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I've got the number and read the process (apparently can't do it anonymously), but decided to wait till next weekend to confirm my suspicions before I ruin everyone's life.

What I saw is not normal. I'm not 100% sure it's sexual. But I'm sure it's not normal. He's holding her too long and too much. It's too much physical contact. Also, I'm sure the boundaries are being walked over.

I'm going to ask the girl if she prefers to stay with DD in the room and if she does, I'll insist she does.

I'm going to watch her with her brother together very closely.

I'm also going to have a serious talk with her mother and tell her that I suspect the girl is being abused and this is not child rough housing, that they should respect her boundaries.

I'm going to invite the girl to sleep at our house on weekends. I'll try to gently talk to her to see how she's doing.

I brought it up with DH and he said he thinks the boy has always treated his sister like a toy (not sexually, but like his property) and parents let him do it. But he didn't notice anything sexual.

However, my concern is that the boy is going through puberty so who knows what he is going to do.

If your husband doesn’t see it as sexual that’s probably a pretty good barameter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does.

No, other people have commented on this, as well.
This family doesn't have other friends really. We're the closest ones although we don't see them very often.

Our common aquatintence also have commented on the inappropriate kissing and touching a few years ago, but that was when they were smaller kids. So everyone wrote it off to affection. But now it's starting to look very weird.

Got it. That’s not what you posted before, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

No, OP said that the girl fights back but can't win, so she seems to disengage and go along with it because her No is not respected. To quote:

"I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves."

I didn't put quote marks around rubbing on her, but here you go:

"Today we hung out together at the pool and he would just pick her up and hold her close to his body and touch her like she's his toy the whole time we were there." That's rubbing on her. It's not a bear hug or innocent to hold your little sister against your body for the entire length of a pool party. WTF is wrong with you, seriously?

She asked if the girl could sleep with another girl on the vacation and mom wouldn't hear it, so yes, she's forcing them in a room together. And she doesn't help when the girl says no. And she doesn't tell her son to respect boundaries. YOU are making things up by pretending the little girl "seems happy with it" when that's the opposite of what OP said. You are heavily invested in this little girl not getting help. It's not a good look.

OP literally said the girl didn’t seem unhappy with it. And she said the mom said she wanted her kids to share a room at the vacation house because that’s what her kids wanted to do. Not that the brother was forcing her to. You are reading a lot into her posts. Even OP admits that no one else sees this stuff as a problem.

OP says she resists and is overpowered, she says no and is ignored, she *never* initiates contact with him, and you read: she doesn't seem unhappy.

You've got an agenda here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.

And now she is saying that her friends all DO think it’s weird and also comment on it. Which means she is probably a troll since she lost track of her story there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

I think twin mom hit the nail in the head. The 13 year old is clearly overstepping boundaries but that doesn’t make it sexual abuse. The parent needs to be a better parent and OP should start there even if it means her friend is offended. But the pitchforks coming out on here claiming if we don’t think this girl is being raped then we are delusional is just... scary. It’s like seeing real mob mentality come to life.

Twin mom has twins. This is a post-pubescent boy rubbing on his little sister, publicly, over her objections, who his parents then lock in a room with him every night with no supervision. The parents are not good parents, this has gone too far already, and acting like people who are concerned for this girl's safety are a crazed mob instead of people who care about child abuse makes you look dismissive at best.

They’re LOCKED in the bedroom together now?

And if you recall OP actually said the girl seemed happy with it/ didn’t seem to mind her brothers attention. And nowhere did she use the sexual phrase “rubbing on her”. This is what I mean by mob mentality. You’re making things up.

No, OP said that the girl fights back but can't win, so she seems to disengage and go along with it because her No is not respected. To quote:

"I don't know how she feels about it anymore. She sometimes be resists but he's strong and always gets his way, while parents just let them work things out. I think the girl just goes along. Feels like there are no boundaries respected at all. If she says no he doesn't stop and the parents just think kids will work it out themselves."

I didn't put quote marks around rubbing on her, but here you go:

"Today we hung out together at the pool and he would just pick her up and hold her close to his body and touch her like she's his toy the whole time we were there." That's rubbing on her. It's not a bear hug or innocent to hold your little sister against your body for the entire length of a pool party. WTF is wrong with you, seriously?

She asked if the girl could sleep with another girl on the vacation and mom wouldn't hear it, so yes, she's forcing them in a room together. And she doesn't help when the girl says no. And she doesn't tell her son to respect boundaries. YOU are making things up by pretending the little girl "seems happy with it" when that's the opposite of what OP said. You are heavily invested in this little girl not getting help. It's not a good look.

OP literally said the girl didn’t seem unhappy with it. And she said the mom said she wanted her kids to share a room at the vacation house because that’s what her kids wanted to do. Not that the brother was forcing her to. You are reading a lot into her posts. Even OP admits that no one else sees this stuff as a problem.

OP says she resists and is overpowered, she says no and is ignored, she *never* initiates contact with him, and you read: she doesn't seem unhappy.

You've got an agenda here.

No, one of her posts said “but she doesn’t seem unhappy” when asked to tell the mom “your daughter looks unhappy with what he is doing” or something similar. But it doesn’t matter, she mixed up her story more than with just that, she is prob not real

[Anonymous]

OP here. DH doesn't think it's normal, though not necessarily sexual. Some other people have commented.

However, in their family there are mother, father, grandparents and all of them act nonchalant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.

And now she is saying that her friends all DO think it’s weird and also comment on it. Which means she is probably a troll since she lost track of her story there.

No I think that people tried to interpret the first comment as OP was crazy because other people didn't see it, and by extension everyone in the thread who think this is a problem are a mob, and OP came back and clarified that it has been commented on in the past but now there are no other friends around to comment, and the same people who tried to say it's a mob mentality to worry about this girl are now going to say "that's not how I read it the first time so you're a troll."

Some people are really, really invested in not seeing child abuse. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Deflect deflect deflect. Strawman here and there. Above all, insist that a thing that happens to 20-25% of girls before age 18 is SOOOOOO farfetched that it could not possibly be happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP literally said the girl didn’t seem unhappy with it. And she said the mom said she wanted her kids to share a room at the vacation house because that’s what her kids wanted to do. Not that the brother was forcing her to. You are reading a lot into her posts. Even OP admits that no one else sees this stuff as a problem.

OP says she resists and is overpowered, she says no and is ignored, she *never* initiates contact with him, and you read: she doesn't seem unhappy.

You've got an agenda here.

Again, she NEVER initiates it. Sometimes she says "Larlo, stop it!" But he doesn't stop and does what he wants. She doesn't cry or scream, just goes along with it. She's not happy, but doesn't seem upset, it's hard for me to read her. Either way, he should not be doing it.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Well, I'm hoping her mom will investigate and ask her questions. Because I don't think it's my place to ask her intimate questions and CPS is going to be very drastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.

And now she is saying that her friends all DO think it’s weird and also comment on it. Which means she is probably a troll since she lost track of her story there.

No I think that people tried to interpret the first comment as OP was crazy because other people didn't see it, and by extension everyone in the thread who think this is a problem are a mob, and OP came back and clarified that it has been commented on in the past but now there are no other friends around to comment, and the same people who tried to say it's a mob mentality to worry about this girl are now going to say "that's not how I read it the first time so you're a troll."

Some people are really, really invested in not seeing child abuse. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Deflect deflect deflect. Strawman here and there. Above all, insist that a thing that happens to 20-25% of girls before age 18 is SOOOOOO farfetched that it could not possibly be happening.

. Read page 2 , 06:32. “I’m the only one in their circle who seems to notice it”. Now she is saying something different but that was her story at first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.

And now she is saying that her friends all DO think it’s weird and also comment on it. Which means she is probably a troll since she lost track of her story there.

No I think that people tried to interpret the first comment as OP was crazy because other people didn't see it, and by extension everyone in the thread who think this is a problem are a mob, and OP came back and clarified that it has been commented on in the past but now there are no other friends around to comment, and the same people who tried to say it's a mob mentality to worry about this girl are now going to say "that's not how I read it the first time so you're a troll."

Some people are really, really invested in not seeing child abuse. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Deflect deflect deflect. Strawman here and there. Above all, insist that a thing that happens to 20-25% of girls before age 18 is SOOOOOO farfetched that it could not possibly be happening.

. Read page 2 , 06:32. “I’m the only one in their circle who seems to notice it”. Now she is saying something different but that was her story at first.

No, again. Firstly, you misquoted her. Secondly, she has explained that the friends commented on the earlier kissing when the kids were younger. Now the kids are older so it's even weirder to OP, but the friends are gone. The "circle" that is left is mother, father and grandparents, all of whom ignore the behavior. They act like it's not weird. You are fixated on discrediting her, starting with a post that says she's giving a one-sided account to now saying that if she fully explains herself she's obviously changed her story. The story hasn't changed.

[Anonymous]

OP, you have a good plan. This girl is lucky that you have remained friends with her family, and I hope you can bring about some positive change for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. All we can get is what OP posts. Some of her posts make it sound totally inappropriate and icky, some of her posts make it sound more harmless. What stands out to me is her stating that she is the only one IN THEIR CIRCLE who seems to think it’s weird. That means it’s not just “mom is in denial”. It implies that other parents in their social circle do not see anything inappropriate with their interactions. Only OP does. Am I the only one who thinks maybe , just maybe, that means OPs lens is colored a little for some reason? You can see a 14 year old hug his sister and then carry her off jokingly at the pool while she laughs in protest. And you can describe it just like that. Or you can describe it “he picked her up and held her close to her body, and wouldn’t put her down, and she didn’t seem unhappy, because she knew he wouldn’t listen to her protests”. OP is describing. It the second way. She admits NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CIRCLE THINKS ANYTHING IS OFF. Maybe OP is the only one who notices. Or, more likely, e is seeing intent and innuendo where there is none, for a reason of her own.

I went back to see if I missed some posts. She said once, early on, "it seems like I'm the only one in their circle who thinks this is weird." I think you're reading it to say that other people have said this is fine when I'm reading it to say that OP feels weird about it but hasn't said anything to her friend, and other friends haven't said anything to OP (or to her friend in front of OP), which is not the same as other friends not thinking it's weird.

And now she is saying that her friends all DO think it’s weird and also comment on it. Which means she is probably a troll since she lost track of her story there.

No I think that people tried to interpret the first comment as OP was crazy because other people didn't see it, and by extension everyone in the thread who think this is a problem are a mob, and OP came back and clarified that it has been commented on in the past but now there are no other friends around to comment, and the same people who tried to say it's a mob mentality to worry about this girl are now going to say "that's not how I read it the first time so you're a troll."

Some people are really, really invested in not seeing child abuse. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Deflect deflect deflect. Strawman here and there. Above all, insist that a thing that happens to 20-25% of girls before age 18 is SOOOOOO farfetched that it could not possibly be happening.

. Read page 2 , 06:32. “I’m the only one in their circle who seems to notice it”. Now she is saying something different but that was her story at first.

No, again. Firstly, you misquoted her. Secondly, she has explained that the friends commented on the earlier kissing when the kids were younger. Now the kids are older so it's even weirder to OP, but the friends are gone. The "circle" that is left is mother, father and grandparents, all of whom ignore the behavior. They act like it's not weird. You are fixated on discrediting her, starting with a post that says she's giving a one-sided account to now saying that if she fully explains herself she's obviously changed her story. The story hasn't changed.

“It just seems I’m the only one who sees it as a problem in their circle”. Sorry. That’s not misquoting like “oh you’re putting words in her mouth” that’s like “I switched the location of the subject in the sentence on accident”. Don’t be dramatic.