Teen is all over his sister

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

It is also possible that this is normal sibling activity that is being misinterpreted because OP has her own issues. I do not know.

I would call CPS only because it is better safe than sorry. I am particularly concerned with these actions and the sharing of the room. What happens in that room is truly unknown to any of us. Everything is speculation. But, the potential is there.

And I was a young teen boy once. 13 yo's often to not get the boundary issues. I hope nothing is happening more than being reported because I would rather not have a kid abused, but I would report the suspicion to someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

I think it COULD be. I think it’s probably not based on what OP has written but obviously there might be more to it. What I don’t understand is how some people seem so naive to what calling cps can set in motion for certain families. I think OP should be pretty damn sure something is up before definitely screwing up this child’s life. I think there is a greater chance that it’s nothing bad, and that OP ruins this family, and only a quite small chance that some real abuse is going on in which case the cps call may help or may STILL make things worse. As a PP said, she would have lied up and down to cps about the abuse she suffered so as to not be taken from her family. I think if OP really wants to help? She should talk to the mom about her concerns and she shud be offering to have that girl over for weeks at a time during school breaks. And then she will have more information and know if she should be calling cps or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

It is also possible that this is normal sibling activity that is being misinterpreted because OP has her own issues. I do not know.

I would call CPS only because it is better safe than sorry. I am particularly concerned with these actions and the sharing of the room. What happens in that room is truly unknown to any of us. Everything is speculation. But, the potential is there.

And I was a young teen boy once. 13 yo's often to not get the boundary issues. I hope nothing is happening more than being reported because I would rather not have a kid abused, but I would report the suspicion to someone.

I agree with you except I don’t view calling CPS as a blanket “safe” option as in , better be safe than sorry and just call. I think it has potential to be devastating to the family and OP should weigh that when deciding if she should take the “nuclear option” so to speak as opposed to just talking to the mom and trying to talk to the girl!

[Anonymous]

Calling CPS won't necessarily ruin their life. My friend had CPS come to her house recently based on a call from a passerby. CPS came by and did some interviews with the mom and child separately, and has done some wellness check-ups since. Everything checked out as non-abuse and they've all moved on.

[Anonymous]

Those of you suggesting OP should offer to take the daughter for extended periods of time, you do realize OP couldn’t even get mom to agree to separate her kids while on vacation in the same house? No way does mom let daughter stay with OP for weeks, not without some serious change of heart.

Question for OP: do you and this family have any mutual friends who have witnessed troubling behavior? Will anyone else be at the vacation house with you? It could be helpful for you to confide in someone else close to the situation, and multiple voices may be more persuasive than one if you do talk to mom.

And I just realized that I have been exclusively referring to mom, but obviously dad is part of the problem too. Maybe I just expect mom to have more empathy for her daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

I think it COULD be. I think it’s probably not based on what OP has written but obviously there might be more to it. What I don’t understand is how some people seem so naive to what calling cps can set in motion for certain families. I think OP should be pretty damn sure something is up before definitely screwing up this child’s life. I think there is a greater chance that it’s nothing bad, and that OP ruins this family, and only a quite small chance that some real abuse is going on in which case the cps call may help or may STILL make things worse. As a PP said, she would have lied up and down to cps about the abuse she suffered so as to not be taken from her family. I think if OP really wants to help? She should talk to the mom about her concerns and she shud be offering to have that girl over for weeks at a time during school breaks. And then she will have more information and know if she should be calling cps or not.

OP has witnessed real abuse. OP HAS WITNESSED IT. It doesn't have to be full on rape to be abuse. What do you think OP should do, put a hidden camera in these kids' rooms before she notifies someone who is trained to investigate this stuff?

OP has witnessed abuse. Get it through your head that abuse is not just rape. I can't believe this is even a question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

This. Lots of children have been abused. We really have no idea how common it is. But we can certainly see the consequences of childhood trauma just about everywhere. This includes all kinds of addictions (work, exercise, obsessive “perfect” appearance, etc. - not just drugs and alcohol).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

I think it COULD be. I think it’s probably not based on what OP has written but obviously there might be more to it. What I don’t understand is how some people seem so naive to what calling cps can set in motion for certain families. I think OP should be pretty damn sure something is up before definitely screwing up this child’s life. I think there is a greater chance that it’s nothing bad, and that OP ruins this family, and only a quite small chance that some real abuse is going on in which case the cps call may help or may STILL make things worse. As a PP said, she would have lied up and down to cps about the abuse she suffered so as to not be taken from her family. I think if OP really wants to help? She should talk to the mom about her concerns and she shud be offering to have that girl over for weeks at a time during school breaks. And then she will have more information and know if she should be calling cps or not.

OP has witnessed real abuse. OP HAS WITNESSED IT. It doesn't have to be full on rape to be abuse. What do you think OP should do, put a hidden camera in these kids' rooms before she notifies someone who is trained to investigate this stuff?

OP has witnessed abuse. Get it through your head that abuse is not just rape. I can't believe this is even a question.

OP has described a 13 year old picking up his sister and "holding her close to him" while in public- ok, that could literally be giving his 10 year old sister a bear hug. She described that years ago, he held her down and kissed her in public. That could have literally been an 8 year old wrestling his 5 year old sister and giving her kisses playfully. OP has said he "touches her a lot in public as if she is his toy". I'm not even sure what that means, if she means he is TOUCHING her, like sexually, then obviously that's a serious abuse issue. If she means he pets her hair or pokes her arm to tease her- I mean, that's all "touching her like she's his toy". What does it even mean? We don't know because we haven't seen it. And OP could be projecting her own issues into whatever she is witnessing, too, considering no one else including the parents seem to be alarmed. To those of you saying "OP has witnessed abuse!" you don't even know what she has witnessed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

I think it COULD be. I think it’s probably not based on what OP has written but obviously there might be more to it. What I don’t understand is how some people seem so naive to what calling cps can set in motion for certain families. I think OP should be pretty damn sure something is up before definitely screwing up this child’s life. I think there is a greater chance that it’s nothing bad, and that OP ruins this family, and only a quite small chance that some real abuse is going on in which case the cps call may help or may STILL make things worse. As a PP said, she would have lied up and down to cps about the abuse she suffered so as to not be taken from her family. I think if OP really wants to help? She should talk to the mom about her concerns and she shud be offering to have that girl over for weeks at a time during school breaks. And then she will have more information and know if she should be calling cps or not.

OP has witnessed real abuse. OP HAS WITNESSED IT. It doesn't have to be full on rape to be abuse. What do you think OP should do, put a hidden camera in these kids' rooms before she notifies someone who is trained to investigate this stuff?

OP has witnessed abuse. Get it through your head that abuse is not just rape. I can't believe this is even a question.

OP has described a 13 year old picking up his sister and "holding her close to him" while in public- ok, that could literally be giving his 10 year old sister a bear hug. She described that years ago, he held her down and kissed her in public. That could have literally been an 8 year old wrestling his 5 year old sister and giving her kisses playfully. OP has said he "touches her a lot in public as if she is his toy". I'm not even sure what that means, if she means he is TOUCHING her, like sexually, then obviously that's a serious abuse issue. If she means he pets her hair or pokes her arm to tease her- I mean, that's all "touching her like she's his toy". What does it even mean? We don't know because we haven't seen it. And OP could be projecting her own issues into whatever she is witnessing, too, considering no one else including the parents seem to be alarmed. To those of you saying "OP has witnessed abuse!" you don't even know what she has witnessed.

I am a different poster and agree completely with this voice of reason. Dcum has worked itself into a hysterical frenzy of “he’s obviously raping her every night” mob based on nothing specific at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the PPs (or is it just one PP) that are so opposed to calling CPS, you seem really in denial that this could be abuse. Is it because you're suppressing your own memories from childhood (as the abused or abuser) or because you've been in the position of these kids' parents that are turning a blind eye to abuse? Either way, you're vehement denial/opposition suggests that you may be projecting at best or need therapy at worst.

I think it COULD be. I think it’s probably not based on what OP has written but obviously there might be more to it. What I don’t understand is how some people seem so naive to what calling cps can set in motion for certain families. I think OP should be pretty damn sure something is up before definitely screwing up this child’s life. I think there is a greater chance that it’s nothing bad, and that OP ruins this family, and only a quite small chance that some real abuse is going on in which case the cps call may help or may STILL make things worse. As a PP said, she would have lied up and down to cps about the abuse she suffered so as to not be taken from her family. I think if OP really wants to help? She should talk to the mom about her concerns and she shud be offering to have that girl over for weeks at a time during school breaks. And then she will have more information and know if she should be calling cps or not.

OP has witnessed real abuse. OP HAS WITNESSED IT. It doesn't have to be full on rape to be abuse. What do you think OP should do, put a hidden camera in these kids' rooms before she notifies someone who is trained to investigate this stuff?

OP has witnessed abuse. Get it through your head that abuse is not just rape. I can't believe this is even a question.

This exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is failing all of our daughters by doing NOTHING.

That's a little dramatic. OP doesn't know my daughter so she isn't failing her. And also OP said she was calling CPS in the morning anyways. This pitchfork mentality is kind of alarming.

+1

I hope OP asks Jeff to lock this thread.

Please lock this thread. It's getting hysterical.

I’m sorry, there’s absolutely nothing hysterical about sexual abuse.

What’s wrong with you?? What are you afraid of?

That’s the point exactly. You have no idea if sex abuse is going on in that house. Maybe it is. Maybe it’s not and that’s just their teasing sibling relationship as he kids mother has said. You guys are getting out of control here without many facts.

Getting pinned on the floor and forcibly kissed IS abuse.

[Anonymous]

OP was clear about what she has seen. This kind of white washing what she clearly described as completely nonconsensual contact and the parents and the boy ignoring her calls for him to stop and not touch her - just give it up.
She clearly didn't describe a bear hug, stop making things up.

OP is right to call. This poor girl needs someone to investigate. What is happening in that family is not appropriate and is in fact harmful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Keep in mind too that your kids were close in age. Mine are the ages of the kids in the OP and my older child weighs 80 lbs more than the younger kid. The imbalance of physical power is huge. That her parents don't speak up or intercede when she said no in the past and says no now is a huge red flag. Some parents are just freaking lazy and don't want to parent their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly does anyone think he isn’t raping her at night - when he has every opportunity - and obviously has raging sexual (sick) attraction towards her?

Anyone?

I answered you. Because all boys are hormonal, all boys will probably try to get what they think is unnoticed gratification by wrestling or hugging if they aren’t stopped by parents who point out “it’s not unnoticed, you moron, stop”. But that is a far cry from raping a 10 year old. How do you not see this?! The parents need to speak up but the girl probably isn’t being raped, lord.

Agree with this. I have girl/boy twins and between 9 and 10 I definitely intercepted some wrestling. Kids at that age don't know why they do things, only that "this is fun". I can think of 2 or 3 times that I pulled them apart when they were lying against each other. It was just horsing around but I was really, really, really quick to stop anything that mirrored something sexual even though at the time they may or may not have been getting any gratification from it. If it looked bad, I ended it immediately. Now at 13 they know exactly what is appropriate and what is not and would be horrified to be in such a compromising position with their sibling. It would never occur to them to do it.
I can see if OP's friend never policed the behavior when the boy was young that he would just keep on doing it. Now whether he currently takes it further I don't know. I think at a minimum OP should have a heart-to-heart with her friend. It would be 100% worth ending the friendship over this.

Thank God your daughter has a mother not afraid to tell her boy to get off of his sister. The daughter of OP’s friend isn’t so lucky.