Can someone explain the mentality of never being proactive or organized to me?

[Anonymous]

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Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

I've seen you advocating for stoicism on this board before and I find it funny because if there is anything that runs counter to Stoic philosophy it's arguing with strangers online about things that don't impact you at all.

You caught me! I am literally the ONLY person who has ever posted on DCUM espousing the benefits of a more Stoic mindset.

I think it’s more CBT than stoicism.

CBT is actually based on stoicism.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

NP.

Make them plan a week long vacation.
It’s eye opening.

I just didn’t know what to call it and thank gawd I packed a guidebook and knew the top 5+ things to do as I had been in the vicinity before 15 years earlier.

The problem is I am very high functioning and we met in grad school, then was his hyper focus. Fast FW and I had capacity to plan the wedding, travel, bethesda home purchase, kid 1c nanny, keep working and then WHAM!!! Needed him to take the baton sometimes and he had NO CLUE. He’d go into shutdown mode, lash out, forget decisions we discussed, hide at work more and more. It was so nuts he went to take a neuropsych test as a 38 yo. He was asd/adhd, he still won’t do anything of the things his therapist suggested or anything we (I) read.

Am counting down the days until I think the youngest child can advocate for herself well. kid 1 has the same asd/adhd, dinner neuropsych test in 4th grade.

Not the life I envisioned but I kept my career, entity and clarity in his bad behavior patterns. The incompetency is so constant thought it’s unbelievable.

So your ADHD kid is destined to get divorced too? Or, shouldn’t expect to get married because they’ll never be able to do what is expected of them by their spouse? I find this so sad.

ADHD is more treatable and respondent to medicine than ASD. But i guess they could always get married and live with you! You could keep taking care of them and any grandchildren!

Life’s too short to deal with this crap.

I told my kids if anyone admits they have any of these issues, just move on to someone else.

Will make sure to give them a primer for anyone that is trying to lie through it or otherwise shows signs of these problems.

Ditto and Amen.

+1

Giving up on someone who gave up on you, the kids, the house, on himself is fine.

If he won’t shape up for his own wife and kids…. He won’t shape up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Omg Stoicism poster, we get it. The fact that this is a trending topic on tiktok notwithstanding, this is not a new phenomenon. Call it radical acceptance, you can't get blood from a stone, or expecting women to do it all, it's just another version of expect nothing from your partner. Throw in "don't be mad about it" and boom, stoicism. We get it.

[Anonymous]

A birthday gift. Travel soccer.
These are not worth being angry. These are not worth ending a marriage.

Op, how much money do you make?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The only thing “stoicism” in relation to a dysfunctional partner will get you is ever-deeper into denial and dysfunction. Being angry is actually more functional because it holds your partner at least somewhat accountable and may motivate you to take care of yourself. In fact the few times I was able to actually manage to get through to my ex was when I was very, very angry and sincerely at the end of my rope, and showed it.

Stoicism and acceptance are for things you actually cannot change. Not dysfunctional (or abusive) partners.

You really think you can change dysfunctional or abusive partners? I strongly disagree.

You can get divorced which is not what stoic lady advocates for.

This is an incorrect conclusion. Divorce is a perfectly reasonable course of action if you are dissatisfied with your spouse or marriage.

You can’t control your spouse’s behavior, or who he is as a person. You can control whether or not you remain married to him. So either accept who he is, or divorce. But stop believing that you can force him to be the person you think he should be, rather than the person he is.

This.

Divorce and coparent as best you can. Detach from normal expectations of him, kids will need to do the same and need therapy (hey likely still think a Father is someone who cares for and protects them, not checks out).

Or stay together but apart. Having money will helps then divorce later or let him keep hanging around the hoop. Don’t let him parentify the kids, no matter what their ages. Taking care of lazy dad is not what you want your daughters doing in their 20s. They need to say NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s simple, he thinks all this bday party business is crap and he wants to sleep in and not bother. It’s a mentality of getting a C in school. You pass but barely, but then you still pass.

Now apply that to 100 basic things he fails at a week and you have OP’s situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

I've seen you advocating for stoicism on this board before and I find it funny because if there is anything that runs counter to Stoic philosophy it's arguing with strangers online about things that don't impact you at all.

You caught me! I am literally the ONLY person who has ever posted on DCUM espousing the benefits of a more Stoic mindset.

I think it’s more CBT than stoicism.

CBT is actually based on stoicism.

No it’s not really. It’s based on changing your behaviors, not deciding “ho hum, I can’t change anything.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Stop it. Seeing things clearly (that your partner is dysfunctional and/or abusive) is the way to move forward. Some
men in fact deserve the blame. And your analogy to children is totally off. Your husband is not your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

Yes, but there are also people with ADHD that are just jerks. My husband has ADHD that he medicated to get through grad school. He no longer medicates, but technology has been hugely helpful to him. He lives and dies by the calendar on his phone. I accept that he and I need to go through the calendar once a week while I patiently wait for him to get everything in his phone. He doesn’t complain when I travel for work several weeks in a row. He does more of the “doing” like trash, putting food away, laundry, changing diapers, etc. I do all the cooking because I cannot deal with eating at 9pm, and I do more of the planning and paperwork. We annoy each other sometimes with our different time management perspectives. But we love each other and have a great time together. He also knows I will leave him behind if he is late for a vacation that requires a plane ride and had never, ever been late. I have learned not to care if we are late for something that involves his family. He accepts that my family will always show up early for an event at our house. It works. But many of the men described in this post have profound levels of distinction that I would divorce over.

NP.

We have left him at the house dillydallying around so the kids are on time for their games, our flights, a family gathering.

He gets angry and lashes out.

We all laugh and cry. Trying to blame others for at the last minute making a pot of coffee, getting in the shower, or taking another dump is really a dumb look. And everyone has tons of reminders.

We do wonder if he does this all on purpose, to seem important. All four of us waiting, 5, 10 more minutes for selfish Dad to figure out his stuff again.

So now we don’t wait.
Of course this results in a waste of family money for two cars being used, gas, airport parking, another flight purchases.

Once he forgot hiss passport - that cost us $4000 in another last minute flight, emergency passport purchase, his own hotel. And had to manhandle 3 young kids back to an empty home myself while stayed another 2+ days to “figure it out.” Oh, he blames Trump, for not being allowed to fly on his original, no US passport. Despite the citizenship test one pager saying only fly in/out of USA with your USA passport from now on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I ended up with “radical acceptance” on this? I stopped asking DH to do 99% of things. I limit it to essential child care. I put the bar down. It’s on the floor. I knew that it might still lead to divorce. I know it still might. But honestly, it’s better than being his mommy. If he wants me to respect him more or be happier in our domestic partnership, he’s not an idiot. If he wants to, he will. The chips will fall where they will.

Do you still sleep together?

Do you think he will wake up someday and demand things of you and then file for divorce for not getting enough attention?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

But OP didn’t do #4. Or even #2. When I suggested OP change tactics the vultures came out to say that DH should do it all. But, OP is the miserable one. Maybe even has a touch of ADHD herself.

You’re just looking for reasons to blame OP.

Not at all. OP has more power than she thinks she does. But blaming her spouse for everything that’s wrong in marriage is not productive and I doubt there’s a single therapist who would say her DH is 100% in the wrong.

When my kid didn’t put on his shoes, I didn’t just go into a rage every time when I did the same exact thing every day. Sometimes I even gave my kid a bit of grace, “that sucks you have to put on shoes, I’d rather be barefoot too.” Suddenly there’s commiseration and acceptance.

Stop with the "she has the power because she can leave" bit. It's true, and your argument is also disingenuous. The only power OP has, other than accepting whatever her H will give, is divorce. She doesn't want that (from what I can tell), nor do most people who have children unless there is no other alternative. Getting to a place where you realize you have to break up your family because your partner refuses to participate and help in family life requires a long grieving process for most people, and some get there. But to suggest that her whole problem is her mindset is miserably reductive.

Note that the shoeless child in your analogy is the DH. It's an apt comparison. I extend a lot of grace to my 6 yr old that I don't extend to adults. As is appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The ignorance being spouted in here by OP and the "crumbs on the counter" poster is laughable.

Go get treated for your undiagnosed anxiety issues.
Being a know-it-all, controlling, self-congratulatory shrew is such an ugly look.

Crumbs on the counter poster here. It's always interesting watching the "I don't want to and you can't make me" people spin out. Ya'll are really, really invested in torpedoing your own marriages by refusing to fold laundry. At the end, I wonder if you'll say it was worth it.

Also you reached the last line in the narcissist's prayer: And if I did it, you deserved it.

That train is never late.

In our house it’s: Safety is Never an Accident.

The amount of bad judgment and accidents during the little kid years was horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A birthday gift. Travel soccer.
These are not worth being angry. These are not worth ending a marriage.

Op, how much money do you make?

Lol tell us what you really think.

"What is important to you or to kids is actually not that important, because I've decided it isn't. And if it is, and you make less money, as many women do because they're raising children, it's not important at all".

You know women see through this talk, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.

I've seen you advocating for stoicism on this board before and I find it funny because if there is anything that runs counter to Stoic philosophy it's arguing with strangers online about things that don't impact you at all.

You caught me! I am literally the ONLY person who has ever posted on DCUM espousing the benefits of a more Stoic mindset.

I think it’s more CBT than stoicism.

The asd or adhd dude needs a year or two of DBT. Get some new habits.

I doubt he’d graduate any of the modules through, especially if he has a temper or is belligerent towards suggestions.