Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of hot girls on social media are asking for the ex-marine’s contact info

I know it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I love this. This just proves that most women admire protective men like the Marine, and want to know that men will stand up for them and protect them.

You must love a wife beater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

The fact that there is such a debate over the Marine’s actions demonstrates why he won’t be indicted. You will not be able to get a group of people to unanimously agree to indict or convict him. At some point there will be complete video of the homeless guy’s behavior that comes out and it will show him acting aggressive and threatening and not merely saying he was hungry and thirsty and that will be it.

You don't need a unanimous vote to indict, just 12 of 23 in New York.

Also, unlike the ignoramuses on this thread, the jurors will understand the law once it’s explained and they will realize you can just kill someone’s for yelling they are hungry and thirsty.

In an interview, speaking in Spanish, the same witness also noted that the victim said that he didn't care if he got a big life sentence. He also described his fear and concern that the victim might be armed. Police investigators also stated that witnesses told them the man

According to the news, he was doing more than that.

But go ahead and minimize the danger of people - violence on the subway only happens to someone else in your world.

According to eyewitnesses he was not.

Here is what the eyewitness who took the video said per the New York Post:

The 24-year-old passenger stepped in after the vagrant, identified by sources as Jordan Neely, 30, began going on an aggressive rant on a northbound F train Monday afternoon, according to police and a witness who took the video.

“He starts to make a speech,” freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vazquez said in Spanish during an interview Tuesday, referring to the disturbed man.

“He started screaming in an aggressive manner,” Vazquez told The Post. “He said he had no food, he had no drink, that he was tired and doesn’t care if he goes to jail. He started screaming all these things, took off his jacket, a black jacket that he had, and threw it on the ground.”

That’s when he said the straphanger came up behind Neely and took him to the ground in a chokehold — keeping him there for some 15 minutes, Vazquez said.

The approximately three-minute-and-a-half-long video shot by Vazquez shows the blond subway rider lying on the floor of the train with his arm wrapped around the man’s neck.

The 24-year-old passenger stepped in after the vagrant, identified by sources as Jordan Neely, 30, began going on an aggressive rant.

Neely — who was living on the streets and had a history of mental health issues — lost consciousness after being put in the chokehold, and EMS workers at the station were unable to revive him, police and law enforcement sources said.

The straphanger — who sources said is a Marine veteran — was taken into custody and later released without charges.

The investigation is ongoing and authorities were waiting on autopsy results before deciding whether to pursue charges against the younger man, sources said.

He declined to comment when reached by The Post Tuesday, saying, “I am not interested in answering any questions, thank you.”

Vazquez, who was on his way to Yonkers at about 2:30 p.m. on Monday, said Neely barged into the train at the Second Avenue station — and quickly began screaming and yelling at riders, prompting many to move away.

Video taken later shows the man flailing his arms and legs in an effort to free himself as the straphanger has him in a headlock and another bystander helps to hold him down on the floor of the subway train.

“He moved his arms but he couldn’t express anything,” Vazquez said of Neely. “All he could do was move his arms.

“Then suddenly he just stopped moving,” Vasquez recalled. “He was out of strength.”

The stranger came up behind Neely and took him to the ground in a chokehold for 15 minutes.
A person can be heard in the video expressing worry about Neely’s well-being off-camera.

The man who had been helping the straphanger hold Neely down replies that “He’s not squeezing no more.” The two then let Neely go after a few seconds, leaving him lying on his side on the ground.

“None of us who were there thought he was in danger of dying,” Vasquez said. “We thought he just passed out or ran out of air.”

Neely lost consciousness after being put in the chokehold, and EMS workers at the station were unable to revive him.

Vazquez said he had mixed feelings about the fatal encounter — particularly since he said Neely had not physically attacked anyone on the train before he was taken down.

“I think that in one sense it’s fine that citizens want to jump in and help. But I think as heroes we have to use moderation,” he said.

“This would never have happened if the police had shown up within five minutes,” he added. “Then we’d be talking about a true hero. It’s complicated.”

The same witness described how he was in fear and was worried that the victim might have a weapon. Police also reported that witnesses recall the man saying, "I'm not taking no for an answer" and "I'll hurt anyone on this train." He clearly viewed the intervention as a heroic measure but not the tragic outcome.

That’s not an accurate quote. I went to the witness’s Facebook page, Luces de Nueva York, and I’m still double checking what you posted versus what she posted. I’m just highlighting this text because I think it makes a difference in perception.

"¡No tengo comida, no tengo que beber, ya estoy harto... no me importa ir a la cárcel y que me den cadena perpetua... estoy listo para morir",

https://fb.watch/kjX-HZa1ys/

He said “I don’t care about going to jail. Let them give me the death penalty …. I’m ready to die.”

If you’re passenger on that train, that makes a very big difference than just saying you’re thirsty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

This is all that needs to be said. Even if the mentally ill man was hurting someone, the marine had no basis for killing this man in he way he did. For 15 minutes (allegedly) he choked this man to death. At which part of the choking did he not realize that the guy was out cold?
The marine is a POS and the degenerates on DCUM acting like he's god's gift to women should seek help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

This is all that needs to be said. Even if the mentally ill man was hurting someone, the marine had no basis for killing this man in he way he did. For 15 minutes (allegedly) he choked this man to death. At which part of the choking did he not realize that the guy was out cold?
The marine is a POS and the degenerates on DCUM acting like he's god's gift to women should seek help.

The mentally ill person was a full grown adult. Even one punch to another person could cause serious bodily injury. DH agrees with you that the response was disproportionate; as a not-very-large woman, I disagree. It's good that someone stopped him and protected everyone on the train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of hot girls on social media are asking for the ex-marine’s contact info

I know it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I love this. This just proves that most women admire protective men like the Marine, and want to know that men will stand up for them and protect them.

You must love a wife beater.

Nope. Just men who know how to behave in dangerous situations when many people are at risk. Beta males, take note. No one is impressed with your paper signs and marching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal here, I'd be inclined NOT to charge the Marine. Unless he is an expert in choke holds and subduing people - like, you know, the police should be - if he was just trying to subdue Neely and there was no intent to kill, I would not charge.
It is true that the passengers didn't know Neely's intent nor his record. However, If the marine - and others, the people who helped him - preceived danger, that is not an unreasonable defense given Neely's pattern of past behavior. When he actually WAS a danger to at least the lady he punched in the face.

I do not want to be on a train in need of help and everyone is afraid to help me because they could end up getting charged.

Being a liberal I’m guessing you’re not expert on criminal law or police procedures.

You can’t kill someone’s because you perceive danger. That would mean every woman getting in her car late at night in a garage who sees a men there could kill him, because she “perceives” danger.

The person must actually do something dangerous and have the ability to carry out the dangerous act.

You don’t need help on a train simply because a man is yelling.

You can’t simply kill a man because 18 months ago he was dangerous.

You are clearly not an expert on criminal law or procedure either since you are also not laying out the correct standard. If a reasonable person would believe that an assault was imminent, it is permissible to defend yourself or others. You do not need to wait for the person to actually assault someone. I find it reasonable that this Marine engaged with the homeless guy after he was yelling aggressively, throwing garbage at people, and saying things like he wants to go to prison and he’s ready to die. To me, that signifies someone getting ready to do something. The 15 minute chokehold may be a different issue, but I have zero issue with the physical engagement.

You are clearly no even a Kindergarten level understanding of the “reasonable person” the person must have apprehension which is different than fear. The danger must be imminent.

Sadly I doubt I understand apprehension or imminent. Do you still won’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

He didn't seem to active have him in a chokehold for 15 minutes. According to the phone video, he had him in a chokehold for some time and when he stopped kicking (passed out), let go.

Holding him until he stopped flailing doesn't seem disproportionate. Up until then, the unhoused person was dangerous.

Yes it was approx 15 min.

If someone had you in a choke hold for just being loud you would also fight for your life.

Waiting until he is dead is too long.

The Marine picked a good one to chokehold, someone who was behaving frighteningly and attacking other passengers and had a history of attacking people.

Funny how he just happened to pick someone with a lengthy history of violence. Wonder how that could have happened?

It’s called profiling and it’s illegal

No, I didn't mean profiling. I meant that it's not a coincidence that the unhoused person who was acting threateningly and frighteningly also happened to be a person with a lengthy violent past.

It is profiling because if it was a bunch of white lax bros acting loud and obnoxious the guy wouldn’t have done anything.

He made assumptions about someone based on their appearance and circumstances. Profiling.

If a lax bro was on there being loud and aggressive and threatening toward other passengers, and if there were a recent history of lax bros assaulting or even killing passengers on trains, I think it is likely the same thing would have happened.

If a lax bro was yelling I’m hungry and threw his jersey to the ground people would ignore it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And, we wonder why people rarely come to the aid of others who are in danger because of the actions of others.

How many times have we seen attacks and assaults on metro trains and nobody helps?

Look how this young marine is being treated on this board by some. There is your answer........

Nobody was assaulted except the dead victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Liberal here, I'd be inclined NOT to charge the Marine. Unless he is an expert in choke holds and subduing people - like, you know, the police should be - if he was just trying to subdue Neely and there was no intent to kill, I would not charge.
It is true that the passengers didn't know Neely's intent nor his record. However, If the marine - and others, the people who helped him - preceived danger, that is not an unreasonable defense given Neely's pattern of past behavior. When he actually WAS a danger to at least the lady he punched in the face.

I do not want to be on a train in need of help and everyone is afraid to help me because they could end up getting charged.

Being a liberal I’m guessing you’re not expert on criminal law or police procedures.

You can’t kill someone’s because you perceive danger. That would mean every woman getting in her car late at night in a garage who sees a men there could kill him, because she “perceives” danger.

The person must actually do something dangerous and have the ability to carry out the dangerous act.

You don’t need help on a train simply because a man is yelling.

Not np. For the slow to learn, his intention was most likely not to kill anyone, just to restrain him until help arrived, as the others who were helping were trying to do. I can use force if I feel endangered or threatened, whether you like it or not. I can assure you if a marine wanted to kill you, it would happen fairly quickly given their training. This man was trying to help until assistance arrived. Clearly since there was more than one person helping in the restraint, there was a threat perceived. Killing was most likely never in anyone's mind. But you go on with your anger.

You can’t simply kill a man because 18 months ago he was dangerous.

No you can’t assault someone for being loud and scary. There must be an imminent threat and yelling and throwing your jacket on the ground does not raise to that level.

The marine assaulted the man, then killed him without intent which is probably gonna be manslaughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This guy is getting charged, I guarantee it. No reason to put someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes, especially with other men helping to contain the mentally ill man.

It was disproportionate use of force relative to the risk. No gun or knife was drawn.

The fact that there is such a debate over the Marine’s actions demonstrates why he won’t be indicted. You will not be able to get a group of people to unanimously agree to indict or convict him. At some point there will be complete video of the homeless guy’s behavior that comes out and it will show him acting aggressive and threatening and not merely saying he was hungry and thirsty and that will be it.

You don't need a unanimous vote to indict, just 12 of 23 in New York.

Also, unlike the ignoramuses on this thread, the jurors will understand the law once it’s explained and they will realize you can just kill someone’s for yelling they are hungry and thirsty.

In an interview, speaking in Spanish, the same witness also noted that the victim said that he didn't care if he got a big life sentence. He also described his fear and concern that the victim might be armed. Police investigators also stated that witnesses told them the man

According to the news, he was doing more than that.

But go ahead and minimize the danger of people - violence on the subway only happens to someone else in your world.

According to eyewitnesses he was not.

Here is what the eyewitness who took the video said per the New York Post:

The 24-year-old passenger stepped in after the vagrant, identified by sources as Jordan Neely, 30, began going on an aggressive rant on a northbound F train Monday afternoon, according to police and a witness who took the video.

“He starts to make a speech,” freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vazquez said in Spanish during an interview Tuesday, referring to the disturbed man.

“He started screaming in an aggressive manner,” Vazquez told The Post. “He said he had no food, he had no drink, that he was tired and doesn’t care if he goes to jail. He started screaming all these things, took off his jacket, a black jacket that he had, and threw it on the ground.”

That’s when he said the straphanger came up behind Neely and took him to the ground in a chokehold — keeping him there for some 15 minutes, Vazquez said.

The approximately three-minute-and-a-half-long video shot by Vazquez shows the blond subway rider lying on the floor of the train with his arm wrapped around the man’s neck.

The 24-year-old passenger stepped in after the vagrant, identified by sources as Jordan Neely, 30, began going on an aggressive rant.

Neely — who was living on the streets and had a history of mental health issues — lost consciousness after being put in the chokehold, and EMS workers at the station were unable to revive him, police and law enforcement sources said.

The straphanger — who sources said is a Marine veteran — was taken into custody and later released without charges.

The investigation is ongoing and authorities were waiting on autopsy results before deciding whether to pursue charges against the younger man, sources said.

He declined to comment when reached by The Post Tuesday, saying, “I am not interested in answering any questions, thank you.”

Vazquez, who was on his way to Yonkers at about 2:30 p.m. on Monday, said Neely barged into the train at the Second Avenue station — and quickly began screaming and yelling at riders, prompting many to move away.

Video taken later shows the man flailing his arms and legs in an effort to free himself as the straphanger has him in a headlock and another bystander helps to hold him down on the floor of the subway train.

“He moved his arms but he couldn’t express anything,” Vazquez said of Neely. “All he could do was move his arms.

“Then suddenly he just stopped moving,” Vasquez recalled. “He was out of strength.”

The stranger came up behind Neely and took him to the ground in a chokehold for 15 minutes.
A person can be heard in the video expressing worry about Neely’s well-being off-camera.

The man who had been helping the straphanger hold Neely down replies that “He’s not squeezing no more.” The two then let Neely go after a few seconds, leaving him lying on his side on the ground.

“None of us who were there thought he was in danger of dying,” Vasquez said. “We thought he just passed out or ran out of air.”

Neely lost consciousness after being put in the chokehold, and EMS workers at the station were unable to revive him.

Vazquez said he had mixed feelings about the fatal encounter — particularly since he said Neely had not physically attacked anyone on the train before he was taken down.

“I think that in one sense it’s fine that citizens want to jump in and help. But I think as heroes we have to use moderation,” he said.

“This would never have happened if the police had shown up within five minutes,” he added. “Then we’d be talking about a true hero. It’s complicated.”

The same witness described how he was in fear and was worried that the victim might have a weapon. Police also reported that witnesses recall the man saying, "I'm not taking no for an answer" and "I'll hurt anyone on this train." He clearly viewed the intervention as a heroic measure but not the tragic outcome.

That’s not an accurate quote. I went to the witness’s Facebook page, Luces de Nueva York, and I’m still double checking what you posted versus what she posted. I’m just highlighting this text because I think it makes a difference in perception.

"¡No tengo comida, no tengo que beber, ya estoy harto... no me importa ir a la cárcel y que me den cadena perpetua... estoy listo para morir",

https://fb.watch/kjX-HZa1ys/

He said “I don’t care about going to jail. Let them give me the death penalty …. I’m ready to die.”

If you’re passenger on that train, that makes a very big difference than just saying you’re thirsty.

It also very different than saying I’m going to hurt someone… he never even threatened someone… he’s hungry and thirst and does care if he has to go to jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of hot girls on social media are asking for the ex-marine’s contact info

I know it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I love this. This just proves that most women admire protective men like the Marine, and want to know that men will stand up for them and protect them.

You must love a wife beater.

Nope. Just men who know how to behave in dangerous situations when many people are at risk. Beta males, take note. No one is impressed with your paper signs and marching.

Alpha males take note.., you’re going to prison.

[Anonymous]

Don't listen to liars who lie about what happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

Yet that didn't happen. Tell me again WHY was he murdered?

He wasn't murdered, but with that you're bias is showing and there is no discussion.

The cause of death is homicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kill someone or push the emergency button to let someone know what's happening?? He picked to kill someone he should be charged.

Oh? If the homeless person punched a passenger, would the conductor rescue them? Would anyone, besides this Marine?

Yet that didn't happen. Tell me again WHY was he murdered?

He wasn't murdered, but with that you're bias is showing and there is no discussion.

The cause of death is homicide.

Homicide is the killing of one person buy another.

Murder is the unlawful killing one person buy another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because he was dangerous and needed to be subdued. Why wouldn't someone understand that?

He didn’t do anything dangerous

How do you know? We’re you there?

There have been several statements collected by witnesses, if you have been keeping up. Yes, he was yelling and screaming.

This is not a crime. If it were, I’d be entitled to choke out your brats when they have a tantrum in public. I’m honestly shocked and sickened by the attitudes here. Do we live in Minority Report, where people can be killed for futurecrime?

Not at all surprised it was a Marine who killed him. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I have read a number of articles about this and watched an interview with the man who took the video. In his interview (in Spanish with a translator), he did note that the man had not assaulted anyone (although you could argue that throwing trash at people might be assault). The witness did, however, note that he was frightened by the man. He also said, in a comment that I found very telling, that if the police had come five minutes earlier, the marine would have been hailed as a hero. I think the fact that two other men were helping the marine subdue the man speaks to the fact that they genuinely viewed his behavior as a threat.

Of course whether they went too far is the question, and it sounds like the force used was excessive.

I ride the NY subway every day, and encounter loud, erratically behaving people regularly. If I deem one of them to be an actual potential threat (and the vast majority are not), I move further down the car, or switch cars. Removing oneself from the threat is the appropriate, and usual, tactic.

The fact that you normalize the necessity to get away from people who pose danger is very telling
It shouldn’t be like that in a civilized country

+1 truly

DP. I think you have it the other way around. In a civilized country, vigilante action is not permitted.

DP
vigilante action is not needed in a civilized country
You don’t see many vigilantes in say Switzerland because all the crazies are promptly put away where they belong