Mink and Jawando propose to limit pull over offenses in Moco

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

They ascertained his identity because they pulled him over for a traffic infraction, though they didn't specify what the infraction was. As a part of any traffic infraction pullover, you have to run the driver's ID and my guess is that's when they realized he had an expired learner's permit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

They ascertained his identity because they pulled him over for a traffic infraction, though they didn't specify what the infraction was. As a part of any traffic infraction pullover, you have to run the driver's ID and my guess is that's when they realized he had an expired learner's permit.

That's interesting that they share that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit but do not share the "infraction" that led to the stop. This screams pretextual stop. That, or the stop was part of a larger investigation.

Might as well say, "Let us stop drivers because they are Black so that we can catch all the fentanyl traffickers"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

They ascertained his identity because they pulled him over for a traffic infraction, though they didn't specify what the infraction was. As a part of any traffic infraction pullover, you have to run the driver's ID and my guess is that's when they realized he had an expired learner's permit.

That's interesting that they share that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit but do not share the "infraction" that led to the stop. This screams pretextual stop. That, or the stop was part of a larger investigation.

Might as well say, "Let us stop drivers because they are Black so that we can catch all the fentanyl traffickers"

I think you're making a gigantic, presumptive leap in logic here, probably because you hold an anti-police bias.

I agree that they could have specified the traffic infraction, but the absence of that specificity doesn't necessarily only mean that it was because they pulled him over for being black. I think it's pretty clear that the message MCPD wanted to send here was "Don't stop us from doing traffic stops, because these are the kinds of criminals we're catching with them" and not what you're claiming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A White MCPD officer called a group of Black men the n-word (and no that's not okay):

https://www.essence.com/news/maryland-police-racial-slur/

Who said its OK? Get guys like that off the force.

But that has nothing to do with pausing all traffic safety stops.

The legislation does not propose pausing all traffic safety stops. Nobody is proposing this. The legislation proposes specifically to prohibit traffic stops by Montgomery County police officers based solely on the suspected violation of the following traffic offenses under the Maryland Vehicle Law, related to:
• licensing and registration;
• certificate of title or insurance;
• window tinting;
• defective headlamp or taillight;
• illuminated license plate;
• minor obstructions, including, signs, posters, and other nontransparent materials on
the windshields;

Also police officers would not be prohibited from
conducting a traffic stop if the driver of a motor vehicle
does not have at least one lighted headlamp and one rear
lamp light displayed.

You can read the proposed bill, yourself, here: https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/council/Resources/Files/agenda/col/2023/20230228/20230228_2B.pdf

Some of those are definitely safety issues, but even if we ignore those (and we shouldn’t)…

Why would you bother pay pay a red light ticket, speeding citation, school bus violation, whatever, if you can’t be pulled over for an expired registration? How can they even issue a ticket if you have a non illuminated plate? Why bother with so many things (like repairing a headlight) if you don’t have to? How you you ever even know that you had a tailight out? I’m just spitballing, I don’t have time to really list all of the reasons this is stupid.

I guess that the upside is that you can freely commit crimes at night if you just disable some plate lighting.

It’s all some weird justice theater with way more downside than upside.

All absurd comments

Why do people bother paying tickets? So they don't have collection agencies after them and don't get arrested and don't have their license suspended.

In what way does a non illuminated plate prevent officers from issuing a ticket?

Do you wait until you get a ticket to repair your headlight?

Not PP but your comments are the absurd ones. How in a million years can ANYONE disagree that this plan is stupid. These are all safety issues and simple fixes. If you violate these you should be pulled over and given one warning. Get it fixed and you are good.

There is no logical explanation for supporting these other than some bizarre ideological pet project.

I guess I will not pay the registration fee because why would I? Why would the county even require registration if it's not enforced? Pure stupidity at the highest level.

It does get enforced if you get stopped for something else.

Plus you need to have it registered for other reasons, like insurance

Sorry you don't like my opinions. I disagree with you. Think about why that upsets you so much

It upsets me because it's pure pandering. I follow the rules and pay my dues but others can just ignore the rules and get away with it. What does that say about our system? People essentially get penalized for obeying the law...penalized as in, our communities are getting overrun with crime and we need to just accept that? What for?

You think society will fall apart because police don't stop drivers with tinted windows? Come on. Police already reduced traffic enforcement by 2/3s. That was their choice. Stopping enforcement of a few minor violations is not going to increase crime.

For one, it's the principal.

Two, YES, give a criminal an inch.

Tinted windows are dangerous and should be enforced. It's dangerous to drive at night, dangerous for other drivers and VERY dangerous for police officers.

You're letting your emotions take over. Think rationally.

For one, I am black. So thank you for pandering to me. I don't need your help or support. In fact, many of my friends all agree this is an idiotic proposal. I don't want my daughter growing up in a society led by white tree huggers who pander thinking they are helping me and my family. We are all in this together.

I'm black too and I'm so tired of overzealous white liberals who think they're doing me a favor with their whacked out ideas that remove rules and accountability and swear they're doing so on my behalf and to my benefit. NOT SO!

I’m Hispanic and I agree with you too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

They ascertained his identity because they pulled him over for a traffic infraction, though they didn't specify what the infraction was. As a part of any traffic infraction pullover, you have to run the driver's ID and my guess is that's when they realized he had an expired learner's permit.

That's interesting that they share that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit but do not share the "infraction" that led to the stop. This screams pretextual stop. That, or the stop was part of a larger investigation.

Might as well say, "Let us stop drivers because they are Black so that we can catch all the fentanyl traffickers"

I think you're making a gigantic, presumptive leap in logic here, probably because you hold an anti-police bias.

I agree that they could have specified the traffic infraction, but the absence of that specificity doesn't necessarily only mean that it was because they pulled him over for being black. I think it's pretty clear that the message MCPD wanted to send here was "Don't stop us from doing traffic stops, because these are the kinds of criminals we're catching with them" and not what you're claiming.

My family is police, and we believe that the previous poster was much more accurate. You can literally sit in Wootton Hs parking lot and wait for kids to fail to use their blinker and get tons of drugs but yo-yo don’t/won’t because “they are good kids”.

[Anonymous]

You not yoyo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42965

Non sequitur

Relevant, it was a traffic stop.

https://mocoshow.com/blog/mcpd-over-two-thousand-fentanyl-pills-recovered-following-traffic-stop/?fbclid=IwAR1vjqGfIAk9z3VfyQgQFu088BOOBlERK-QeqH7Wyp7hc4FDeFIRwR10AYY

+1 this traffic stop would’ve been illegal under their proposed new bill. I’m glad all these pills were taken off the streets. There is a major fentanyl problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

What a smart way for MCPD to drop the mic on Jawando.

It is clever. It's also odd that they on the one hand claim that they can't tell the race of a driver before stopping a car, and on the other hand that in this case they apparently ascertained the driver's identity (and that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit) before stopping the car.

My guess is there is more to this story that they are not sharing.

They ascertained his identity because they pulled him over for a traffic infraction, though they didn't specify what the infraction was. As a part of any traffic infraction pullover, you have to run the driver's ID and my guess is that's when they realized he had an expired learner's permit.

That's interesting that they share that he was driving in violation of his learner's permit but do not share the "infraction" that led to the stop. This screams pretextual stop. That, or the stop was part of a larger investigation.

Might as well say, "Let us stop drivers because they are Black so that we can catch all the fentanyl traffickers"

I think you're making a gigantic, presumptive leap in logic here, probably because you hold an anti-police bias.

I agree that they could have specified the traffic infraction, but the absence of that specificity doesn't necessarily only mean that it was because they pulled him over for being black. I think it's pretty clear that the message MCPD wanted to send here was "Don't stop us from doing traffic stops, because these are the kinds of criminals we're catching with them" and not what you're claiming.

Come on, there is literally no reason for them not to share why the stopped the car, except most likely that in doing so it would undermine what they are trying to do with this press release, which is to undermine the Jawando/Mink bill. Btw, all the traffic stop data becomes public, so when they release that we will be able to see if there were any other "traffic infractions" - my guess is there will be none. They either knew exactly who they were stopping before they stopped him (as part of an investigation into fentanyl trafficking) or this was a pretextual stop.

And using public resources for that very political purpose is extremely shady in and of itself, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42965

Non sequitur

Relevant, it was a traffic stop.

https://mocoshow.com/blog/mcpd-over-two-thousand-fentanyl-pills-recovered-following-traffic-stop/?fbclid=IwAR1vjqGfIAk9z3VfyQgQFu088BOOBlERK-QeqH7Wyp7hc4FDeFIRwR10AYY

+1 this traffic stop would’ve been illegal under their proposed new bill. I’m glad all these pills were taken off the streets. There is a major fentanyl problem.

Police don't initiate traffic stops for violating learner's permits. They can't even tell the race of the driver before they stop them, remember? They sure AF can't ID the driver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42965

Non sequitur

Relevant, it was a traffic stop.

https://mocoshow.com/blog/mcpd-over-two-thousand-fentanyl-pills-recovered-following-traffic-stop/?fbclid=IwAR1vjqGfIAk9z3VfyQgQFu088BOOBlERK-QeqH7Wyp7hc4FDeFIRwR10AYY

It's interesting that they included a lot of information in the press release - but they didn't include the information about what the traffic stop was for. I, for one, would certainly like to know what it was for. It's not like a you can know or even presume, just from looking at a car going by, that the driver has a learner's permit which they are driving in violation of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they will read this press release from MCPD that led to over 2000 fentanyl pills being taken off the streets.

https://www2.montgomerycountymd.gov/mcgportalapps/Press_Detail_Pol.aspx?Item_ID=42965

Non sequitur

Relevant, it was a traffic stop.

https://mocoshow.com/blog/mcpd-over-two-thousand-fentanyl-pills-recovered-following-traffic-stop/?fbclid=IwAR1vjqGfIAk9z3VfyQgQFu088BOOBlERK-QeqH7Wyp7hc4FDeFIRwR10AYY

+1 this traffic stop would’ve been illegal under their proposed new bill. I’m glad all these pills were taken off the streets. There is a major fentanyl problem.

How can you know this? The police didn't say what the traffic stop was for. And the proposed new bill doesn't forbid police officers from making all traffic stops - just traffic stops for a very limited number of reasons that not directly related to driving behavior. Police officers can still pull drivers over for speeding, or driving erratically, or dangerous lane change, or running a stop sign, or any number of directly dangerous driving behaviors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/jun/8/20060608-121304-5477r/

George Porter, 51, a taxi driver and lifelong D.C. resident, said he hasn’t seen many cameras in Northwest. However, he said he’s noticed quite a few on heavily traveled roads in Northeast and Southeast, including Benning Avenue Northeast — a freewaylike thoroughfare which is not located in a residential area but has a 30 mph speed limit.

“That one just seems excessive to me,” Mr. Porter said. “There’s no way you’re going to hurt a pedestrian there.”

James Cole, 46, who was born and raised in the District, said he thinks commuter routes are the program’s primary target, but the lack of cameras outside of the eastern half of the city lends credence to the claims of racial disparity.

Don't speed and you don't get a ticket..how is that hard?

There are speed cameras all over Potomac and Bethesda - a majority white area. They are all over the Palisades - a majority white area. It's not rocket science.

As mentioned above, we don't have data for who gets speed and red light camera tickets in Montgomery County. In DC, some have observed they are concentrated in majority Black neighborhoods. Across the US, Black communities have a lot of very unsafe roads. That sucks and it also means they need to fix the roads.

The whole basis for enforcement is to make the roads safer. You all think by pulling over a disproportionate number of Black people, that makes the roads safer. Yet, this disproportionate enforcement becomes more disproportionate over time. It doesn't sound like it's functioning as a deterrent. So that raises the question, shouldn't we change the road design? Otherwise enforcement is just a game of whack a mole.

Yes, we should. But that takes years and years and years and years, unfortunately. Speed cameras also take years, but fewer years. So while we're waiting for the roads to be made safer in disadvantaged areas, we can at least add enforcement of the dangerous drivers in those areas. And in all other areas too. If it were up to me, there would be red lights cameras at each and every traffic signal in Montgomery County, tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/jun/8/20060608-121304-5477r/

George Porter, 51, a taxi driver and lifelong D.C. resident, said he hasn’t seen many cameras in Northwest. However, he said he’s noticed quite a few on heavily traveled roads in Northeast and Southeast, including Benning Avenue Northeast — a freewaylike thoroughfare which is not located in a residential area but has a 30 mph speed limit.

“That one just seems excessive to me,” Mr. Porter said. “There’s no way you’re going to hurt a pedestrian there.”

James Cole, 46, who was born and raised in the District, said he thinks commuter routes are the program’s primary target, but the lack of cameras outside of the eastern half of the city lends credence to the claims of racial disparity.

Don't speed and you don't get a ticket..how is that hard?

There are speed cameras all over Potomac and Bethesda - a majority white area. They are all over the Palisades - a majority white area. It's not rocket science.

As mentioned above, we don't have data for who gets speed and red light camera tickets in Montgomery County. In DC, some have observed they are concentrated in majority Black neighborhoods. Across the US, Black communities have a lot of very unsafe roads. That sucks and it also means they need to fix the roads.

The whole basis for enforcement is to make the roads safer. You all think by pulling over a disproportionate number of Black people, that makes the roads safer. Yet, this disproportionate enforcement becomes more disproportionate over time. It doesn't sound like it's functioning as a deterrent. So that raises the question, shouldn't we change the road design? Otherwise enforcement is just a game of whack a mole.

Yes, we should. But that takes years and years and years and years, unfortunately. Speed cameras also take years, but fewer years. So while we're waiting for the roads to be made safer in disadvantaged areas, we can at least add enforcement of the dangerous drivers in those areas. And in all other areas too. If it were up to me, there would be red lights cameras at each and every traffic signal in Montgomery County, tomorrow.

When will that process begin? Where is the urgency?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/jun/8/20060608-121304-5477r/

George Porter, 51, a taxi driver and lifelong D.C. resident, said he hasn’t seen many cameras in Northwest. However, he said he’s noticed quite a few on heavily traveled roads in Northeast and Southeast, including Benning Avenue Northeast — a freewaylike thoroughfare which is not located in a residential area but has a 30 mph speed limit.

“That one just seems excessive to me,” Mr. Porter said. “There’s no way you’re going to hurt a pedestrian there.”

James Cole, 46, who was born and raised in the District, said he thinks commuter routes are the program’s primary target, but the lack of cameras outside of the eastern half of the city lends credence to the claims of racial disparity.

Don't speed and you don't get a ticket..how is that hard?

There are speed cameras all over Potomac and Bethesda - a majority white area. They are all over the Palisades - a majority white area. It's not rocket science.

As mentioned above, we don't have data for who gets speed and red light camera tickets in Montgomery County. In DC, some have observed they are concentrated in majority Black neighborhoods. Across the US, Black communities have a lot of very unsafe roads. That sucks and it also means they need to fix the roads.

The whole basis for enforcement is to make the roads safer. You all think by pulling over a disproportionate number of Black people, that makes the roads safer. Yet, this disproportionate enforcement becomes more disproportionate over time. It doesn't sound like it's functioning as a deterrent. So that raises the question, shouldn't we change the road design? Otherwise enforcement is just a game of whack a mole.

Yes, we should. But that takes years and years and years and years, unfortunately. Speed cameras also take years, but fewer years. So while we're waiting for the roads to be made safer in disadvantaged areas, we can at least add enforcement of the dangerous drivers in those areas. And in all other areas too. If it were up to me, there would be red lights cameras at each and every traffic signal in Montgomery County, tomorrow.

When will that process begin? Where is the urgency?

You need to direct your questions to the Maryland State Highway Administration, who are responsible for almost all of the really dangerous roads in Montgomery County.