Girls, 13 and 15, Charged With Murder After Armed Carjacking Near Nationals Park

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

That’s where parenting comes in. I don’t expect a 13 year old to know about every program, but the parents have a responsibility to their children. They should be ensuring the kids are in school, and not committing crimes. The breakdown of the inner city starts with the parents. Even if the parents don’t have an education of any sort, it is their job to ensure the kids get one. It’s also their job to ensure their kids aren’t criminals. Government cannot raise kids to be productive members of society-it’s up the parents. You were poor, and yet your parents made sure you went to school, knew where you were, etc. it doesn’t take a masters degree to parent. Bottom line, until parents step up, the cycle will continue.

I keep thinking about the this woman. https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-hs-student-fails-3-211655068.html

Her son didn’t go to high school for 4 years and she was shocked to learn that when it was time for him to graduate. Yes, the school should have contacted her about this, but ultimately, it is her responsibility to make sure her kid is in school. She doesn’t take any responsibility for this-she truly believes she is the victim. This victim mentality is what keeps the cycle going.

Ok, but how does punishing these girls as harshly as possible stop this cycle? All it means is that they will have even less likelihood of being responsible parents when the time arrives, just perpetuating the cycle.

Because when punishment is ineffective, you end up with adults on the streets killing innocent people like this: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/20-year-old-scholarship-student-gunned-down-by-stranger-outside-temple-hills-tattoo-parlor/2615919/?fbclid=IwAR3YUHPREa1l0ibzlJ3EEiEnSqE68R49hq0GR3UF0iyab4ze455kPhZbtis

Which is why the response should be focused on rehabilitation, counseling and other ways to help them -- not punishment.

Yes, but the rehabilitation, counseling and other ways needs to be done while they are separated from society for a significant amount of time. Not the DC way of "okay we're letting you go but you have to promise to show up to your sessions."

These two girls killed a man. Some people here seem to think we're talking about two kids who got caught stealing a candy bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

That’s where parenting comes in. I don’t expect a 13 year old to know about every program, but the parents have a responsibility to their children. They should be ensuring the kids are in school, and not committing crimes. The breakdown of the inner city starts with the parents. Even if the parents don’t have an education of any sort, it is their job to ensure the kids get one. It’s also their job to ensure their kids aren’t criminals. Government cannot raise kids to be productive members of society-it’s up the parents. You were poor, and yet your parents made sure you went to school, knew where you were, etc. it doesn’t take a masters degree to parent. Bottom line, until parents step up, the cycle will continue.

I keep thinking about the this woman. https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-hs-student-fails-3-211655068.html

Her son didn’t go to high school for 4 years and she was shocked to learn that when it was time for him to graduate. Yes, the school should have contacted her about this, but ultimately, it is her responsibility to make sure her kid is in school. She doesn’t take any responsibility for this-she truly believes she is the victim. This victim mentality is what keeps the cycle going.

Ok, but how does punishing these girls as harshly as possible stop this cycle? All it means is that they will have even less likelihood of being responsible parents when the time arrives, just perpetuating the cycle.

it doesn't, but they are going to have a hard time killing another innocent if they are in jail for the next 50 years

Well, under DC law, they will be out in no more than 6 or 8 years respectively, leaving them plenty of remaining child bearing years. 6 or 8 years incarcerated is hardly going to leave them better positioned to be productive themselves or to properly model for any future children. Therefore, it seems that we are better off focusing away from punishment and towards whatever will give these girls the best chance at a productive life for themselves and any future children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

Welcome to life for most people. As I mentioned, you don't have to go on to be some roaring success - just don't hurt others.

My parents were immigrants from tremendous poverty. I had a parent die as a child, took care of them while they were sick. Then the other parent was mentally ill and depressed, and I also took care of them. This was all before middle school. I had no extended family to help me. I mean sure, I tried a couple of cigarettes in High School and that was the extent of my teenage rebellion. Sometimes I jaywalk. Go over the speed limit on the highway. But I have never stolen anything from anyone, and certainly never violently hurt another person or put them in physical jeopardy.

It's not hard. Stealing cars is not about getting out of poverty. It's stupid, idiotic, senseless, bad choices that anyone with an iota of brain cell function knows not to do. You don't have to be a lawyer, or doctor, or engineer - not hurting others basically takes zero effort. Stop excusing these things on poverty or a sh!tty childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

That’s where parenting comes in. I don’t expect a 13 year old to know about every program, but the parents have a responsibility to their children. They should be ensuring the kids are in school, and not committing crimes. The breakdown of the inner city starts with the parents. Even if the parents don’t have an education of any sort, it is their job to ensure the kids get one. It’s also their job to ensure their kids aren’t criminals. Government cannot raise kids to be productive members of society-it’s up the parents. You were poor, and yet your parents made sure you went to school, knew where you were, etc. it doesn’t take a masters degree to parent. Bottom line, until parents step up, the cycle will continue.

I keep thinking about the this woman. https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-hs-student-fails-3-211655068.html

Her son didn’t go to high school for 4 years and she was shocked to learn that when it was time for him to graduate. Yes, the school should have contacted her about this, but ultimately, it is her responsibility to make sure her kid is in school. She doesn’t take any responsibility for this-she truly believes she is the victim. This victim mentality is what keeps the cycle going.

Ok, but how does punishing these girls as harshly as possible stop this cycle? All it means is that they will have even less likelihood of being responsible parents when the time arrives, just perpetuating the cycle.

Because when punishment is ineffective, you end up with adults on the streets killing innocent people like this: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/20-year-old-scholarship-student-gunned-down-by-stranger-outside-temple-hills-tattoo-parlor/2615919/?fbclid=IwAR3YUHPREa1l0ibzlJ3EEiEnSqE68R49hq0GR3UF0iyab4ze455kPhZbtis

Which is why the response should be focused on rehabilitation, counseling and other ways to help them -- not punishment.

Yes, but the rehabilitation, counseling and other ways needs to be done while they are separated from society for a significant amount of time. Not the DC way of "okay we're letting you go but you have to promise to show up to your sessions."

These two girls killed a man. Some people here seem to think we're talking about two kids who got caught stealing a candy bar.

+1 Also, planning to taser someone and obtaining a taser is very concerning.

[Anonymous]

Our government is now offering more money - disguised as Covid relief - to folks to continue to have children they are not prepared to care for and secondly, discouraging these same folks from seeking employment. Social programs work when they encourage self sufficiency.

Regarding a PP’s comments on “what do we expect” when kids live in homes where parents don’t have high school diplomas?

Well - this is what most immigrants faced when they came to this country in the first half of the century. Yet, their children benefited from the constant messaging of I want more for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

That’s where parenting comes in. I don’t expect a 13 year old to know about every program, but the parents have a responsibility to their children. They should be ensuring the kids are in school, and not committing crimes. The breakdown of the inner city starts with the parents. Even if the parents don’t have an education of any sort, it is their job to ensure the kids get one. It’s also their job to ensure their kids aren’t criminals. Government cannot raise kids to be productive members of society-it’s up the parents. You were poor, and yet your parents made sure you went to school, knew where you were, etc. it doesn’t take a masters degree to parent. Bottom line, until parents step up, the cycle will continue.

I keep thinking about the this woman. https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-hs-student-fails-3-211655068.html

Her son didn’t go to high school for 4 years and she was shocked to learn that when it was time for him to graduate. Yes, the school should have contacted her about this, but ultimately, it is her responsibility to make sure her kid is in school. She doesn’t take any responsibility for this-she truly believes she is the victim. This victim mentality is what keeps the cycle going.

Let's say in three or four or five years that same 13 year old I wrote about above, with no role models, becomes a parent. Do you think she will know enough "step up" and teach her child about the importance of education? Of course not. And that's how the cycle perpetuates.

Well, in this case, these kids shouldn’t be pregnant in 4-5 years; they should be in prison.

Well, thank you for not opening another can of worms. Because they for sure won't be sexually abused in prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so tired of hearing about lack of opportunity for these kids. We live in a nation that offers free education for kids until they’re 18. DC has tuition assistance for college bound kids. Families can access food, health, and housing benefits. There are childcare credits, job training, social programs, and many charities that provide additional assistance. At some point we need to stop blaming ‘society’ and start looking at the families. Parents-mom AND dad-need to step up. Communities shouldn’t tolerate the crimes their children are committing. Parents need to be held accountable. We can throw a ton of money at the program, but it won’t help until people take personal responsibility for their choices and want to better their lives-legally.

+1000

There are opportunities everywhere - if you're born in the US, you already have infinitely more privilege and opportunity than the rest of the world. Nobody's going to hold your hand through every step every day of your life - at some point you have to take charge and make good choices for yourself.

You don't even have to be some kind of big success story, the bar is pretty low - just don't hurt/harm/kill another person. That's it. It's not hard and it really takes only minimal effort.

I am not justifying murder. I'm not saying what happened is right or understandable. BUT imagine that you are a 13 year old born into a household/community where most people didn't even finish high school. You don't have the internet at home and your parents aren't actively participating in your school or helping with schoolwork. Your classes at school are too big for you to ever get any individual attention. So how would you know about these opportunities? You wouldn't, not unless someone were actively trying to educate and involve and motivate you. You see what you know, you behave accordingly, and in a few years you become a parent yourself and repeat the cycle. Some people are self starters who are able to get themselves out of poverty, but by far not all or even most.

I came here as a child and we lived in poverty for a while. But I had an advantage in that my parents were educated (equivalents of masters degrees in our former country). Even though at first they worked menial jobs and were gone all the time, they still supervised my grades/homework and knew when to step in. They also constantly stressed upon me the importance of a college degree. If they hadn't? I don't think I would have just figured it out.

That’s where parenting comes in. I don’t expect a 13 year old to know about every program, but the parents have a responsibility to their children. They should be ensuring the kids are in school, and not committing crimes. The breakdown of the inner city starts with the parents. Even if the parents don’t have an education of any sort, it is their job to ensure the kids get one. It’s also their job to ensure their kids aren’t criminals. Government cannot raise kids to be productive members of society-it’s up the parents. You were poor, and yet your parents made sure you went to school, knew where you were, etc. it doesn’t take a masters degree to parent. Bottom line, until parents step up, the cycle will continue.

I keep thinking about the this woman. https://www.yahoo.com/news/baltimore-hs-student-fails-3-211655068.html

Her son didn’t go to high school for 4 years and she was shocked to learn that when it was time for him to graduate. Yes, the school should have contacted her about this, but ultimately, it is her responsibility to make sure her kid is in school. She doesn’t take any responsibility for this-she truly believes she is the victim. This victim mentality is what keeps the cycle going.

Let's say in three or four or five years that same 13 year old I wrote about above, with no role models, becomes a parent. Do you think she will know enough "step up" and teach her child about the importance of education? Of course not. And that's how the cycle perpetuates.

Well, in this case, these kids shouldn’t be pregnant in 4-5 years; they should be in prison.

Well, thank you for not opening another can of worms. Because they for sure won't be sexually abused in prison.

Would you rather we send them to their room without dinner as a punishment? These kids decided to carjack a car, they brought a taser, and they ended up killing an innocent man. They deserve prison...for a very long time.

[Anonymous]

Ever wonder why DC schools has such high teacher turnover?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please people, just hand over your car and run away.

Poppycock.

“ If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim.”

Well, he tried, but he failed and paid the ultimate price. Not sure your advice is sage. But you do you.

[Anonymous]

Birth control must be free and actively offered to families in crisis levels of poverty. How different things would be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Birth control must be free and actively offered to families in crisis levels of poverty. How different things would be.

Totally agree. It should be as plentiful as the drugs sold on the corner.

[Anonymous]

I feel sorry for the victim and his family. But I cannot help but feel so sorry for the girls and the unimaginable conditions that the must have grown up in to have such little regard for others. I don’t know what the definitive solution is except that a lifetime of incarceration is not the answer. Schools need to reopen to get these kids back in the classroom and we need to invest in the social workers and support systems that would help prevent future tragedies. My heart breaks for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the victim and his family. But I cannot help but feel so sorry for the girls and the unimaginable conditions that the must have grown up in to have such little regard for others. I don’t know what the definitive solution is except that a lifetime of incarceration is not the answer. Schools need to reopen to get these kids back in the classroom and we need to invest in the social workers and support systems that would help prevent future tragedies. My heart breaks for them.

You think this type of crime wasn’t happening when schools were open? Yes, schools need to open. But let’s not kid ourselves, we all know kids raised to believe carjacking is a fun afternoon activity aren’t the kids who are going to attend school. until parents take responsibility for their kids and raise them well, this will continue to happen over and over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Birth control must be free and actively offered to families in crisis levels of poverty. How different things would be.

Totally agree. It should be as plentiful as the drugs sold on the corner.

Yes. Hand it out at school, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for the victim and his family. But I cannot help but feel so sorry for the girls and the unimaginable conditions that the must have grown up in to have such little regard for others. I don’t know what the definitive solution is except that a lifetime of incarceration is not the answer. Schools need to reopen to get these kids back in the classroom and we need to invest in the social workers and support systems that would help prevent future tragedies. My heart breaks for them.

We appreciate your including one sentence for the victim and his family. The rest of your response suggests far more sympathy for the girls. That's cold.