Stopping caring saved my marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The ONLY way this has worked out for my friends and me with a similar situation is to have a schedule set in stone - so he cooks dinner on Mondays an Thursdays and does bedtime on Tuesdays and Fridays. You do the opposite days - no trying to "share" duties and hope he helps - he's either on or he's off - and I am either on or off. Eventually, you can soften a bit, but for now - he needs to be 100% responsible so it happens.

This is basically what we do and much better advice than the self-abnegation and self-delusion preached above. Thankfully my DH isn't apparently entirely a "non-functional bump on a log," but left to his own devices, he would probably gradually turn into one. We generally alternate: stagger schedules, switch off bath-time, dinner clean up, bedtime for our two kids. The more routine and established the schedule the better--things get done with little or no friction. In fact, things are always worse on weekends and in period of transition when things are unclear and he reverts to the (his) mean.

That's a good approach for some couples. I think the points raised in this thread are for couples who are fairly alienated and entrenched with one or both seething resentment. I think the thread proposes an interesting way to diffuse the energy and really pull back from the toxic situation. Anyway, these are the kinds of folks who are going to come to schedule without a lot of acrimony.

I agree/disagree. I think the thread was interesting when discussing how to end the dynamic where one spouse is too much of a people-pleaser and is too invested in getting acknowledgement/agreement from their spouse. E.g. If you are making dinner, should you really care whether your spouse *loves* it and compliments it? Where it went off the rails was when this insight morphed into: forget about emotional validation, you should not care about the fact that your spouse does nothing at all! E.g. You have to make dinner all the time, and you should not care whether your spouse ever reciprocates or contributes at all. The first insight may be valuable, the second seems incredibly unhealthy and self-destructive.

To get this discussion back on track (maybe):

It's interesting to see the baggage some people are reading into this - the word "detachment" seems very loaded for some. Read up on the Buddhist idea of detachment. It's not emotional distance, or removal of feeling. It's taking a step back to observe and not just jumping to a reaction. I don't love my spouse less when I do this. In fact, I've found it to increase my love for him. I'm no longer treating him like a stone I'm trying to squeeze water out of.

Also - this process doesn't mean you are not expecting nothing - you can still make very clear expectations of each other. It just may not end up looking exactly the way you want it to. When I realized my husband's productive time was the morning - bam, have him do more of the daily chores that can happen in the morning. I happily do mine in the evening. No longer do I seethe when he's relaxing in front of the TV - he gave me more time to sleep in the morning. How many of us aren't being exactly fair about our partner's contribution just because it's not happening exactly at the same time as ours?

Maybe taking that time to pause in your own sense of resentment and busy-ness to "get it all done" - you aren't creating any space for him to find his own way. When I stopped taking myself and every little thing so damn seriously, I discovered that my DH did care about the house being picked up, and he would get to the point where he would do it. Not my way. His way. If you truly have a spouse who will sit on his ass forever, well then - you have a different problem.

If DH says something like "We need to do x" - I say "ok!" More often than not - he's saying that because he cares that it gets done and will do it. If I jump up and do it, I'm not giving him the space to. I could react by getting angry that he's assuming I should do it (which may be true or not - how many of us are not guilty of wishing the other would just do the work so we don't have to) - I'm just creating emotional work for myself. I behave as if there is no assumption that I should do it - which puts the space back on place for him to step in. If he pushes further, I can say - that's not a priority for me right now, but you can go ahead! See how reacting just makes it all worse?

[Anonymous]

Here's a question: after you start to do this, do you ever feel like you are roommates who share space and occasionally have sex? When do you connect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a question: after you start to do this, do you ever feel like you are roommates who share space and occasionally have sex? When do you connect?

^

I've been thinking about this and I don't know that it would work for me. I need to feel like my spouse is 100% in this with me. I need him to feel like he cares about what I care about - or at least make a show of interest and involvement. So I do tell him if he's been rude to me or hurt my feelings or if I need him to make a change. It's interesting to me to hear that other women don't do that. I just assumed everyone had these kinds conversations with their spouses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has really derailed from the awesome thread it was this morning. If OP or anyone who's done the same as she has wants to come back and actually throw some more pearls of wisdom our way it would be very appreciated.

Agreed. Why don't you comic book movie people start your own thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a question: after you start to do this, do you ever feel like you are roommates who share space and occasionally have sex? When do you connect?

^

I've been thinking about this and I don't know that it would work for me. I need to feel like my spouse is 100% in this with me. I need him to feel like he cares about what I care about - or at least make a show of interest and involvement. So I do tell him if he's been rude to me or hurt my feelings or if I need him to make a change. It's interesting to me to hear that other women don't do that. I just assumed everyone had these kinds conversations with their spouses.

Why do you assume that this approach includes letting DH be rude to you? It just means that you don't live and die by his actions. If my DH has been unkind, I let him know. But I don't expect him to hang on my every word, validate every feeling, make me feel totally connected and loved at all times. He doesn't have to care about the things I care about and vice versa. That sounds like being co-dependent to me.

It's not about emotional disconnection. It's about not expecting the other person to fill you up. It's about taking a step back and not reacting to everything all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a question: after you start to do this, do you ever feel like you are roommates who share space and occasionally have sex? When do you connect?

^

I've been thinking about this and I don't know that it would work for me. I need to feel like my spouse is 100% in this with me. I need him to feel like he cares about what I care about - or at least make a show of interest and involvement. So I do tell him if he's been rude to me or hurt my feelings or if I need him to make a change. It's interesting to me to hear that other women don't do that. I just assumed everyone had these kinds conversations with their spouses.

Why do you assume that this approach includes letting DH be rude to you? It just means that you don't live and die by his actions. If my DH has been unkind, I let him know. But I don't expect him to hang on my every word, validate every feeling, make me feel totally connected and loved at all times. He doesn't have to care about the things I care about and vice versa. That sounds like being co-dependent to me.

It's not about emotional disconnection. It's about not expecting the other person to fill you up. It's about taking a step back and not reacting to everything all the time.

The lack of SNs make threads like this hard I guess. In the middle, there was a lot of talk about just doing the chores you care about yourself and letting him slide on household help in order to prevent nagging. Of if he doesn't want to eat the dinner you made, rather than seeing it as rude, let it roll off your back and offer him cereal. Idk. Seems kind of self abnegating to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ONLY way this has worked out for my friends and me with a similar situation is to have a schedule set in stone - so he cooks dinner on Mondays an Thursdays and does bedtime on Tuesdays and Fridays. You do the opposite days - no trying to "share" duties and hope he helps - he's either on or he's off - and I am either on or off. Eventually, you can soften a bit, but for now - he needs to be 100% responsible so it happens.

This is basically what we do and much better advice than the self-abnegation and self-delusion preached above. Thankfully my DH isn't apparently entirely a "non-functional bump on a log," but left to his own devices, he would probably gradually turn into one. We generally alternate: stagger schedules, switch off bath-time, dinner clean up, bedtime for our two kids. The more routine and established the schedule the better--things get done with little or no friction. In fact, things are always worse on weekends and in period of transition when things are unclear and he reverts to the (his) mean.

That's a good approach for some couples. I think the points raised in this thread are for couples who are fairly alienated and entrenched with one or both seething resentment. I think the thread proposes an interesting way to diffuse the energy and really pull back from the toxic situation. Anyway, these are the kinds of folks who are going to come to schedule without a lot of acrimony.

I agree/disagree. I think the thread was interesting when discussing how to end the dynamic where one spouse is too much of a people-pleaser and is too invested in getting acknowledgement/agreement from their spouse. E.g. If you are making dinner, should you really care whether your spouse *loves* it and compliments it? Where it went off the rails was when this insight morphed into: forget about emotional validation, you should not care about the fact that your spouse does nothing at all! E.g. You have to make dinner all the time, and you should not care whether your spouse ever reciprocates or contributes at all. The first insight may be valuable, the second seems incredibly unhealthy and self-destructive.

To get this discussion back on track (maybe):

It's interesting to see the baggage some people are reading into this - the word "detachment" seems very loaded for some. Read up on the Buddhist idea of detachment. It's not emotional distance, or removal of feeling. It's taking a step back to observe and not just jumping to a reaction. I don't love my spouse less when I do this. In fact, I've found it to increase my love for him. I'm no longer treating him like a stone I'm trying to squeeze water out of.

Also - this process doesn't mean you are not expecting nothing - you can still make very clear expectations of each other. It just may not end up looking exactly the way you want it to. When I realized my husband's productive time was the morning - bam, have him do more of the daily chores that can happen in the morning. I happily do mine in the evening. No longer do I seethe when he's relaxing in front of the TV - he gave me more time to sleep in the morning. How many of us aren't being exactly fair about our partner's contribution just because it's not happening exactly at the same time as ours?

Maybe taking that time to pause in your own sense of resentment and busy-ness to "get it all done" - you aren't creating any space for him to find his own way. When I stopped taking myself and every little thing so damn seriously, I discovered that my DH did care about the house being picked up, and he would get to the point where he would do it. Not my way. His way. If you truly have a spouse who will sit on his ass forever, well then - you have a different problem.

If DH says something like "We need to do x" - I say "ok!" More often than not - he's saying that because he cares that it gets done and will do it. If I jump up and do it, I'm not giving him the space to. I could react by getting angry that he's assuming I should do it (which may be true or not - how many of us are not guilty of wishing the other would just do the work so we don't have to) - I'm just creating emotional work for myself. I behave as if there is no assumption that I should do it - which puts the space back on place for him to step in. If he pushes further, I can say - that's not a priority for me right now, but you can go ahead! See how reacting just makes it all worse?

This makes a lot of sense, thank you. When I look at my marriage objectively I do think a lot of my resentment towards him are created from my own realistic expectations. Maybe if I employ this approach it will help the entire household. Thanks ladies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The ONLY way this has worked out for my friends and me with a similar situation is to have a schedule set in stone - so he cooks dinner on Mondays an Thursdays and does bedtime on Tuesdays and Fridays. You do the opposite days - no trying to "share" duties and hope he helps - he's either on or he's off - and I am either on or off. Eventually, you can soften a bit, but for now - he needs to be 100% responsible so it happens.

This is basically what we do and much better advice than the self-abnegation and self-delusion preached above. Thankfully my DH isn't apparently entirely a "non-functional bump on a log," but left to his own devices, he would probably gradually turn into one. We generally alternate: stagger schedules, switch off bath-time, dinner clean up, bedtime for our two kids. The more routine and established the schedule the better--things get done with little or no friction. In fact, things are always worse on weekends and in period of transition when things are unclear and he reverts to the (his) mean.

That's a good approach for some couples. I think the points raised in this thread are for couples who are fairly alienated and entrenched with one or both seething resentment. I think the thread proposes an interesting way to diffuse the energy and really pull back from the toxic situation. Anyway, these are the kinds of folks who are going to come to schedule without a lot of acrimony.

I agree/disagree. I think the thread was interesting when discussing how to end the dynamic where one spouse is too much of a people-pleaser and is too invested in getting acknowledgement/agreement from their spouse. E.g. If you are making dinner, should you really care whether your spouse *loves* it and compliments it? Where it went off the rails was when this insight morphed into: forget about emotional validation, you should not care about the fact that your spouse does nothing at all! E.g. You have to make dinner all the time, and you should not care whether your spouse ever reciprocates or contributes at all. The first insight may be valuable, the second seems incredibly unhealthy and self-destructive.

To get this discussion back on track (maybe):

It's interesting to see the baggage some people are reading into this - the word "detachment" seems very loaded for some. Read up on the Buddhist idea of detachment. It's not emotional distance, or removal of feeling. It's taking a step back to observe and not just jumping to a reaction. I don't love my spouse less when I do this. In fact, I've found it to increase my love for him. I'm no longer treating him like a stone I'm trying to squeeze water out of.

Also - this process doesn't mean you are not expecting nothing - you can still make very clear expectations of each other. It just may not end up looking exactly the way you want it to. When I realized my husband's productive time was the morning - bam, have him do more of the daily chores that can happen in the morning. I happily do mine in the evening. No longer do I seethe when he's relaxing in front of the TV - he gave me more time to sleep in the morning. How many of us aren't being exactly fair about our partner's contribution just because it's not happening exactly at the same time as ours?

Maybe taking that time to pause in your own sense of resentment and busy-ness to "get it all done" - you aren't creating any space for him to find his own way. When I stopped taking myself and every little thing so damn seriously, I discovered that my DH did care about the house being picked up, and he would get to the point where he would do it. Not my way. His way. If you truly have a spouse who will sit on his ass forever, well then - you have a different problem.

If DH says something like "We need to do x" - I say "ok!" More often than not - he's saying that because he cares that it gets done and will do it. If I jump up and do it, I'm not giving him the space to. I could react by getting angry that he's assuming I should do it (which may be true or not - how many of us are not guilty of wishing the other would just do the work so we don't have to) - I'm just creating emotional work for myself. I behave as if there is no assumption that I should do it - which puts the space back on place for him to step in. If he pushes further, I can say - that's not a priority for me right now, but you can go ahead! See how reacting just makes it all worse?

OP here. This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a question: after you start to do this, do you ever feel like you are roommates who share space and occasionally have sex? When do you connect?

^

I've been thinking about this and I don't know that it would work for me. I need to feel like my spouse is 100% in this with me. I need him to feel like he cares about what I care about - or at least make a show of interest and involvement. So I do tell him if he's been rude to me or hurt my feelings or if I need him to make a change. It's interesting to me to hear that other women don't do that. I just assumed everyone had these kinds conversations with their spouses.

Why do you assume that this approach includes letting DH be rude to you? It just means that you don't live and die by his actions. If my DH has been unkind, I let him know. But I don't expect him to hang on my every word, validate every feeling, make me feel totally connected and loved at all times. He doesn't have to care about the things I care about and vice versa. That sounds like being co-dependent to me.

It's not about emotional disconnection. It's about not expecting the other person to fill you up. It's about taking a step back and not reacting to everything all the time.

The lack of SNs make threads like this hard I guess. In the middle, there was a lot of talk about just doing the chores you care about yourself and letting him slide on household help in order to prevent nagging. Of if he doesn't want to eat the dinner you made, rather than seeing it as rude, let it roll off your back and offer him cereal. Idk. Seems kind of self abnegating to me.

My take on a lot of the "just doing chores and letting him slide" part of the discussion was that it was mainly coming from the critics, not the supporters of this detachment idea.

You know, the dinner example is a good one to dissect. If my self-worth is wrapped up in my husband's opinion about dinner, or if I'm in the habit of interpreting that everything is all about me, then I'll take it personally when he doesn't like it. Taking a step back will help you realize that (1) your DH has likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with your cooking ability (2) he's allowed to express his preferences and feelings in a kind way as he's an individual and not a drone. So, first, I cook what I want to cook if I'm making the effort. I take my family's preferences into account because I care about them, and I would like to enjoy dinner with them. But we all don't get everything we like all the time. If I'm making the effort to cook, then I get the final vote on what I make. If someone doesn't like what I made, they are welcome to express that kindly, i.e.: "no thank you" and make something else for themselves. So, I don't take it personally if my DH doesn't like dinner, and he's welcome to make himself some cereal (not me offering to serve him cereal).

Notice - there doesn't have to be rudeness or unkindness. There's no lack of love here. I'm just not hinging my personal well-being to his like or dislike of dinner. His like or dislike really isn't about me. So I'm not going to take it on. He's not rejecting me if he rejects dinner.

[Anonymous]

I think the detachment started around the time I turned 40 and figured out that I needed to make myself happy. I tried to stop jumping in to fix everything and let more household stuff slide. I enjoy cooking, so I did that for the creativity and pleasure of it, and if it was appreciated, so much the better. He told me that our yard needed some colorful plants. Great. I did not do a thing, and he came home with colorful plants, installed them, and watered them for several days afterward.

As for making plans, as Chris Rock said - 'who wants to date your wife?' He's divorced now, so I guess that didn't work out very well for him. But the point stands - men chased and caught us, and now they do not feel the need to woo us any longer. I like to do more socializing than DH, so I plan more Mom Nights Out, Moms Night In (at my house) and seeing chick flicks with friends. He would rather be on the couch watching football and I like drinking margaritas with my gal pals. We go on date nights - dinners out and movies too, so it's not like we never do anything.And we have a weekend trip without kids coming up soon.

Frankly, I think he likes the space. I know I'm enjoying it.

[Anonymous]

PP - forgot to mention to those who have young kids and are embattled in the 'Chore Wars.' Outsource what your DH won't and you can't do. Get a housecleaner. Ask the cleaner what else they can do. My housecleaner's husband also did yard work. Boom. She comes on weekdays to clean, he comes on weekends to rake/mulch, etc. If it means I eat peanut butter for a week, getting help to maintain sanity is worth it.

If you need help in the evenings, seek out a sitter that you can call if you want to take a night off (with or without DH). Sittercity.com or care.com or your neighborhood listserv. Ask co-workers who have older kids if they babysit, or know someone who does. Ask other Moms for names (even if you don't know them that well.)

[Anonymous]

Any Husbands reading this thread? What are your thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is basically the most helpful and interesting DCUM thread I've read in ages. Maybe ever.

+10000

EVER.


......EVER.

[Anonymous]

I've read a bunch of these stopped caring saved my marriage threads. If stopping caring makes you happy all power to you. But I guess I have a different definition of what a relationship is all about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've read a bunch of these stopped caring saved my marriage threads. If stopping caring makes you happy all power to you. But I guess I have a different definition of what a relationship is all about.

Good for you, but a relationship is defined by the people in it. If they are happy who are you to judge (and you are judging).