Why so many single men not interested in dating?

[Anonymous]

This is depressing reading on all sides.

I think that most men are decent, normal, imperfect people.

I think most women are decent, normal, imperfect people.

I'm not stupid enough to think that appearance and wealth don't matter, but I think they matter to both men and women much, much less than one would think from reading this thread.

I think most heterosexual men and women would be happier if permanently coupled with a respectful, kind, imperfect partner.

To any single people reading this, please stop reading and ignore 99 percent of the above.

For a sane perspective:

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/dating-advice-for-men

"My basic pieces of dating advice for men are:

Think carefully about what you actually want from dating and romance.

Be very distrustful of people who talk to you about dating and romance on the internet; these people rarely have your best interests in mind.

It’s crucial to realize that sex and romance are achievable by regular, average men — not just by hyper-attractive or high-status “Chads”.

Women want regular, average men for lots of reasons — for companionship, for sex, and for helping to raise kids.

Being attractive is important, but so are A) actually wanting romance, and B) learning to communicate with women."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:300k gross for a family of 3 in dmv is close to poverty. You need to make double that in combined income to make ends meet

80 percent of the DC area is in poverty?

It’s poor even relative to how I grew up back in Europe in 1980s. We had international vacation once a year, visited theaters and museums on weekends, a nice 2br/2baths apartment, after school sports and arts, excellent schools which gave me real transferable skills for life.

If you want to replicate this lifestyle in the US high COLA areas you need around 500k gross income min in my opinion

I mean, it not like your opinion is valid.

Her opinion is not valid. Many Americans wouldn't even consider a 2/2 apartment to be a house. When I owned a condo, nearly all of our relatives asked when we were going to buy a house. And it does NOT take you 500k to afford a 2 bedroom apartment! Heck most people on welfare have that, plus after school sports, schools and free museums (this is DC after all).

It’s all about spending priorities. I see no point to live in a 5000 sq ft house (which is a financial drag and wasteful ) or even in a townhouse for a family of 3. Europeans spend way less on houses and live in smaller apartments. That’s totally fine by me. But Europeans do travel a lot -to Latin America, Africa, Australia, USA etc.

I’m not willing to give up my passion for travel and seeing what the world has to offer in order to have a larger house in the US while limiting my travel to US national parks. I love US and Canada but it’s just limiting to travel only within one country to me

The whole point of dating is to find someone who is aligned with you. I totally realize that most men won’t be aligned by their values and spending priorities with me. And that’s ok - I’m still able to find relationships that work for me

These men are single because their expectations are not aligned with their target group

Yeah. That lifestyle in a 2br apartment is very attainable at 300k income

Yep. But it won’t be if I lived in a $1.7m house. That PP husband complaining on his wife being a spender for buying $100 make-up every month doesn’t realize that the main drain on their finances is excessive housing spending - mortgage, maintenance, time costs associated with contractors etc

Single men rarely buy big houses with designer kitchen, double vanity and duvet covers. They tend to be content in their basic urban studios.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I always assumed they are able to hookup which fulfills that need, without having to introduce further complexities to their life.

Men are pretty simple creatures overall. I think that from mens perspective its even more simple than hookups. They can get their sexual needs met through internet-corn and then turn it off when they’re done and get back to their life’s interests.

Aside from that and some companionship, which they can get from friends and pets, everything else adds life complexity and costs.

Being in a serious relationship with a woman means accomplishing the things she needs to be fullfilled. She needs a wedding, children, a nice house, private school for the kids, vacations for all, prestigious college for the kids, a husband with a prestigious job and good money, non-whimsical fiscal responsibility - thats a LOT. By the time our sone is done with college we’ll be $1m in pretty much just for education.

Guy’s only goals are really to have a girlfriend and sex. If you read these forums, once women get the wedding and the kids, none of the girlfriend stuff is left. He’s left being a rage punching bag for her resentment and forget about sex completely. Oh, and when the marriage doesn’t work out, he loses half of his stuff for life.

I know that women feel like free labor but guys really don’t need all of that stuff. Clean house, clean clothes, dishes, all of that can be done on their timeframe with no yelling or micromanagement. In the dame way that modern women are discovering peace, men are too.

I’m lucky in that I got married at 25 and she was 23. We’ve had a great marriage and none of the resentment or no sex part. We built a great life and grown together.

But the bolded part is true. We can extend on the house because it’s in a top notch school high school, and we don’t need to take vacations..it’s more important for all of to be comfortable at home. Well a couple years go by and…the public schools are very crowded so we should send them to private high school and “we really need a family vacation.” She does work and earns well so cooking and cleaning isn’t in the cards…so on top of the big house, private high school, and vacations, it’s a litany of $350 monthly expenses to keep the household running, and about $500 a month in hair/personal care products and services and about $1k in clothes for her and our daughter. Oh, and all these milestones “only happen once” so we shouldn’t be “cheap” when they come up. So the promise of being frugal to pay for the house or private school just never happens. And since I’m responsible for the finances, every attempt at discussion substantial transaction feels like an interrogation to her.

Here’s what a guy needs, a roof over his head, food in the fridge, a loving family, and the sense that the family financial future is secure. I think guys in their mid 30’s are hearing stories from guys like me and saying “no thanks.”

The best financial decision I've made was to insist that we both max out our 401k's. It's better that we never see that money hit our checking accounts. But yes, we've got exactly the same issues you do. Insistence that we need to take our preschooler to Europe because it's so family friendly (a trip to Europe with a preschooler is just doing childcare in a different country, and is not a vacation), complaints about how we don't have nice furniture (which our preschooler would probably destroy--we can buy nice things when the kids are older and more responsible), complaints about how we are low-income with our combined $300k income, frequent purchases of only $100 here and $100 there on makeup and clothes (described as really good deals and "investments"). And at the same time I'm looking for ways to try to reduce my already low spending (mostly just coffee at work and the occasional lunch out) in order to increase college savings because I know just how expensive that will be and the more we're able to save now, the less impact it will have on our lifestyles later. And from what I've learned, there's no way to predict whether a woman will develop these habits--my wife was definitely not like this when I met her or even at the beginning of our marriage.

300k gross for a family of 3 in dmv is close to poverty. You need to make double that in combined income to make ends meet

This isn’t true. It’s close to poverty if you have a wife that “needs” to live in a $1.75m house, send the kids to private school, and take 1-2 $10k vacations a year. If not, it’s plenty if money.

It’s very low income . I’m a single woman making 380k gross and live in a one bedroom apartment in LCOL area . One child in college. I manage to save 70k/year and rather frugal. But if it were 3 people I don’t know…

I’m assuming you’re maxing out your 401k, and your still saving $70k after taxes….which is about $105k of income.

No, 70k includes my max 401k contribution. Child in college cost me 70k net a year (that’s including one international trip a year together, their sports, career development coaching etc )

Ahh. This is what I’m talking about. You consider yourself frugal, but are paying for one international trip a year, and sports and career development counseling for a college kid.

Yes since that’s how I lived since I was born and that’s a minimum living standard I attain to myself. I wouldn’t date a man who has different lifestyle expectations and can’t bring to table at least what I make

So google AI is estimating that only 3-5% of male earners in the DC area make at least $380k. I'd bet that a substantial percentage of those men are married. Sure, it only takes one, but that's a pretty small pool you're fishing in.

5% is about 160k men earning over $380k. Honestly, that sounds like a lot to choose from.

The problem is finding someone that you’re attracted to, have chemistry with and share common goals.

If you’re an unattractive guy making that much its not a great scenario. Basically, she’ll have been “dating” guys she’s physically attracted to and has chemistry with until she gets tired of that scene and wants to settle down and find someone with whom she can accomplish her marriage/kids goal. The sex will be boring to her to the point its just bad. It will die out soon after the kids are born. Then you’re just left having to pay for it all.

This mentality is the exact reason men rather stay single.

Meh. It's easy to date at your level and avoid this. Date the girl who would have dated you in high school, not the girl who thinks you are cute now because you have money. When you go for a woman that is much more attractive than you and then put no effort to your looks, blame yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300k gross for a family of 3 in dmv is close to poverty. You need to make double that in combined income to make ends meet

80 percent of the DC area is in poverty?

It’s poor even relative to how I grew up back in Europe in 1980s. We had international vacation once a year, visited theaters and museums on weekends, a nice 2br/2baths apartment, after school sports and arts, excellent schools which gave me real transferable skills for life.

If you want to replicate this lifestyle in the US high COLA areas you need around 500k gross income min in my opinion

I mean, it not like your opinion is valid.

Her opinion is not valid. Many Americans wouldn't even consider a 2/2 apartment to be a house. When I owned a condo, nearly all of our relatives asked when we were going to buy a house. And it does NOT take you 500k to afford a 2 bedroom apartment! Heck most people on welfare have that, plus after school sports, schools and free museums (this is DC after all).

It’s all about spending priorities. I see no point to live in a 5000 sq ft house (which is a financial drag and wasteful ) or even in a townhouse for a family of 3. Europeans spend way less on houses and live in smaller apartments. That’s totally fine by me. But Europeans do travel a lot -to Latin America, Africa, Australia, USA etc.

I’m not willing to give up my passion for travel and seeing what the world has to offer in order to have a larger house in the US while limiting my travel to US national parks. I love US and Canada but it’s just limiting to travel only within one country to me

The whole point of dating is to find someone who is aligned with you. I totally realize that most men won’t be aligned by their values and spending priorities with me. And that’s ok - I’m still able to find relationships that work for me

These men are single because their expectations are not aligned with their target group

Yeah. That lifestyle in a 2br apartment is very attainable at 300k income

Yep. But it won’t be if I lived in a $1.7m house. That PP husband complaining on his wife being a spender for buying $100 make-up every month doesn’t realize that the main drain on their finances is excessive housing spending - mortgage, maintenance, time costs associated with contractors etc

Oh us guys understand. We’re the ones paying the bills. Who insisted on the $1.7m house? Probably not the husband.

So but he did sign the papers for it? He could have declined and divorced her if she continued pressuring. Not complain now at his selection of a partner who is not a great lifestyle match for him.

It would be like me complaining that I want to travel but a man I date doesn't. Absolutely not! I won't even date men who prefer spending their free time on road trips to National Parks and gardening in their huge backyard because to me that's not interesting and boring. I wouldn't even decide to date a man like that after date #1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imaginary incels

iMaGiNaRy InCeLs
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9780135/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always assumed they are able to hookup which fulfills that need, without having to introduce further complexities to their life.

Men are pretty simple creatures overall. I think that from mens perspective its even more simple than hookups. They can get their sexual needs met through internet-corn and then turn it off when they’re done and get back to their life’s interests.

Aside from that and some companionship, which they can get from friends and pets, everything else adds life complexity and costs.

Being in a serious relationship with a woman means accomplishing the things she needs to be fullfilled. She needs a wedding, children, a nice house, private school for the kids, vacations for all, prestigious college for the kids, a husband with a prestigious job and good money, non-whimsical fiscal responsibility - thats a LOT. By the time our sone is done with college we’ll be $1m in pretty much just for education.

Guy’s only goals are really to have a girlfriend and sex. If you read these forums, once women get the wedding and the kids, none of the girlfriend stuff is left. He’s left being a rage punching bag for her resentment and forget about sex completely. Oh, and when the marriage doesn’t work out, he loses half of his stuff for life.

I know that women feel like free labor but guys really don’t need all of that stuff. Clean house, clean clothes, dishes, all of that can be done on their timeframe with no yelling or micromanagement. In the dame way that modern women are discovering peace, men are too.

To the bolded: you only lose half your stuff if you do not marry your financial equal. It's a choice.

Yea, maybe don’t marry a hot yoga, teacher or a life coach but a similarly paid professional woman.

Then marriage in fact in beneficial to raising kids (vs doing it single ) because of economy of scale.

Of course, kids are major tax on your income and if you prioritize career and savings you shouldn’t have kids

There can be balance: two people making 180k and balancing work and family life.

Yea, but since women make less than men on average, this presumes that this 41 yo man making 150K should marry a woman OLDER than him, not younger. In practical real life terms. Doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

Those people are singles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

Those people are singles

I stand by my opinion that a partnered person is not a "single" .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

Read up on Warren Buffet’s own marriage.

[Anonymous]

I have the most vanilla, conventional marriage and agree 100% with what Warren Buffett said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

Read up on Warren Buffet’s own marriage.

+1

He is in no position to give advice to modern day women, unless you are into polygamy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing a lot of men over 35 who have never been married, have no kids and/or are divorced, but have no interest whatsoever in dating. And there is nothing wrong with these men. They are employed, their mental health is okay, they just want to remain single. Why??

The extreme money-demands/ expectations of women looking to date reduce these women to little more than high-risk prostitutes.

For that kind of $$, many men choose to skip the risk, the drama, and are content to choose sex à la carte.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing a lot of men over 35 who have never been married, have no kids and/or are divorced, but have no interest whatsoever in dating. And there is nothing wrong with these men. They are employed, their mental health is okay, they just want to remain single. Why??

The extreme money-demands/ expectations of women looking to date reduce these women to little more than high-risk prostitutes.

For that kind of $$, many men choose to skip the risk, the drama, and are content to choose sex à la carte.

Found the incel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It kind of speaks for itself that a thread on why men don’t date anymore devolves into back and forth quibbiling about money and sexy old successful singles calling men (who are presumably qualified to answer the question credibly) incels. There is a deep rot at the heart of gender relations. People are just really really bitter it seems.

We didn't become "sexy successful older singles". First of all, we are not even "singles" and never had been during adult phase of life. We who respond are married, were married, or all in long term relationships. So we base our opinions and recommendations based on our own life experience.

Being married/partnered is one of the most important choice you make in life that determines your mental, physical and financial stability later in life. Read what Warren Buffet thinks about it:

"Warren Buffett views marriage as the most important life and financial decision anyone can make. He emphasizes choosing a partner who inspires self-improvement, applying a pragmatic approach of low expectations rather than looking for a flawless fairytale. Marryng the "Right Person" is the most critical decision of a person's life, which profoundly shapes aspirations, daily habits, and overall success. Also being realistic and having low exceptions of a spouse is also very important"

These men who are single until early 40s clearly didn't follow some of Buffet recommendations and their expectations are not aligned with their target dating group, for whichever reason.

Read up on Warren Buffet’s own marriage.

+1

He is in no position to give advice to modern day women, unless you are into polygamy

Warren Buffett's arrangement was hardly polygamy in the traditional sense. He was married on paper to one woman, but acted married in all other respects to another.