SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Well, you should have married OP’s husband. He shares all this stuff 50/50.

Or you should have married mine. He pays all of the bills and I use my income to pay for household help to cook homemade meals and drive kids to after school activities.

That’s rough that you have to do everything and do it all alone.

Where did PP say they have to do everything/do it alone?

That’s a reach.

They said that they do everything the SAHM does and have a job too. Sounds like they are doing all of the things.

All they said is that they do all of the things previously listed.

I don’t understand the hostility nor the jump to conclusions. Chill.

It’s not hostility. It’s sympathy.
She has a rough life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

I really think that most working parents either have a situation like OP’s where both people work reasonable hours and share the load evenly, live near helpful and involved family, have hired help for cooking and after school activities, or don’t actually do all of this stuff every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

I cant. I can do it for a couple of years, but doing all of that stuff every day and working full time burns me out. Eventually, I start missing appointments, not cooking every day or even grocery shopping every week, not really listening to my kids when they talk because I just want to sleep or am worried about work, etc.
Congratulations to you if you do all of that consistently for years. I don’t think that many people do.

Unless you’re a single parent, all of these responsibilities should not be falling on one person alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Well, you should have married OP’s husband. He shares all this stuff 50/50.

Or you should have married mine. He pays all of the bills and I use my income to pay for household help to cook homemade meals and drive kids to after school activities.

That’s rough that you have to do everything and do it all alone.

Where did PP say they have to do everything/do it alone?

That’s a reach.

They said that they do everything the SAHM does and have a job too. Sounds like they are doing all of the things.

All they said is that they do all of the things previously listed.

I don’t understand the hostility nor the jump to conclusions. Chill.

It’s not hostility. It’s sympathy.
She has a rough life.

LOL why do you assume that?

She didn’t say she is the only person that does those things, just that she does them. As does every parent. That’s pretty basic parenting stuff - not what I would call “rough.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

I really think that most working parents either have a situation like OP’s where both people work reasonable hours and share the load evenly, live near helpful and involved family, have hired help for cooking and after school activities, or don’t actually do all of this stuff every day.

+1. And since this is about marriage dynamics, the next question is about how juggling “involved family” or balancing a workload plus hired help affects marriage dynamics. Then you have to weigh both options and figure out which set of pros/cons works out best for your family. But let’s not pretend that marriage isn’t affected by the stress of a dual income family too. Every set up has its drawbacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working mom with a pretty impressive job.

I think the women who really think their husbands care about their resumes and view them as equal professionals are delusional. Men typically care to the extent you’re not giving them a hard time, it makes their life easier, and they are okay financially. A marriage is NOT successful because the wife has an impressive resume and it gives her husband a hard on.

I agree with this. DH doesn't care at all how much money I do or dont make. He's happy if he's getting laid and I don't give him a hard time. Appreciates it when I dress up and look nice. Appreciates that the kids are smart (due to genetics and environment) but probably doesn't care that I am. I have a fancy resume and so does he but it's not a big deal to him.

Not true in my circle. When wives have "impressive" jobs (successful doctor, lawyer, policy etc) the men in our circle are very, very focused on it. It's seen as a real status symbol.

Of course, i assume that the type of women who are less focused on careers end up with men who are less focused on women with careers - so they are probably happy together. Likewise, women and men who are both very into women have high professional aspirations are likely to end up together. In other words, people end up with the type of person they should.

Perhaps this is a new money circle?? Yes, in some cities like NY viewed favorably to have a big job. But there are plenty of SAHMs married to very successful men.

In my circle those very successful women quit to become stay at home moms once the kids arrive. I just look around at my private school.

You usually can’t tell if someone is a SAHM or not just by looking.

Also, at the most expensive privates the majority of the moms are 45 years old by the time they have a kindergartner. So they may have had a 20 year career before having kids.

We're in public school, but this is me and this is one reason why I find threads like this, and the attitude of some about SAHMs, weird. I actually only SAHMed for a few years and have been part time since, and am now actually planning to go back for a second graduate degree in order to do a career pivoting my late 40s. But I remember when I decided to quit my job when my first was born and I had colleagues who were like "oh no now you'll be dumb and boring and your husband won't respect you anymore!" I was 39, had out-earned him for much of our marriage, and felt I'd done everything I wanted to do in my career. My husband doesn't think I'm dumb or boring -- he asks me for career advice and thinks it's too bad I have zero interest in politics because, according to him, I could finally get that ham sandwich elected.

Some women SAHM because they want a new challenge, not because they are afraid of having a "real" job or don't want to have to think. It's so sad to discover how much women devalue the work of caring for children. Early childhood development is fascinating and finding out how to nurture your own child is deeply rewarding and interesting. I can't figure out if the people who don't understand this are just pretending they don't realize that because they couldn't afford to SAHM or really don't understand it. Either way, it's sad.

So you're someone who enjoys the company of children and is apathetic about current events.

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider you smart.

Well you’re an idiot so you wouldn’t know if someone was smart. Do you have kids? They’re going to cut you off in the future if they haven’t already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Well, you should have married OP’s husband. He shares all this stuff 50/50.

Or you should have married mine. He pays all of the bills and I use my income to pay for household help to cook homemade meals and drive kids to after school activities.

That’s rough that you have to do everything and do it all alone.

Where did PP say they have to do everything/do it alone?

That’s a reach.

They said that they do everything the SAHM does and have a job too. Sounds like they are doing all of the things.

All they said is that they do all of the things previously listed.

I don’t understand the hostility nor the jump to conclusions. Chill.

It’s not hostility. It’s sympathy.
She has a rough life.

LOL why do you assume that?

She didn’t say she is the only person that does those things, just that she does them. As does every parent. That’s pretty basic parenting stuff - not what I would call “rough.”

Well, not every parent. I don’t do all of the things that SAHM said she does. I have hired help. OP doesn’t all of those things. She splits them with her DH.

If you are doing all of the stuff the SAHM mentioned that she does AND you are working full time, you need to have a come to Jesus talk with your husband. No one should be doing all of that unless they absolutely have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working mom with a pretty impressive job.

I think the women who really think their husbands care about their resumes and view them as equal professionals are delusional. Men typically care to the extent you’re not giving them a hard time, it makes their life easier, and they are okay financially. A marriage is NOT successful because the wife has an impressive resume and it gives her husband a hard on.

I agree with this. DH doesn't care at all how much money I do or dont make. He's happy if he's getting laid and I don't give him a hard time. Appreciates it when I dress up and look nice. Appreciates that the kids are smart (due to genetics and environment) but probably doesn't care that I am. I have a fancy resume and so does he but it's not a big deal to him.

Not true in my circle. When wives have "impressive" jobs (successful doctor, lawyer, policy etc) the men in our circle are very, very focused on it. It's seen as a real status symbol.

Of course, i assume that the type of women who are less focused on careers end up with men who are less focused on women with careers - so they are probably happy together. Likewise, women and men who are both very into women have high professional aspirations are likely to end up together. In other words, people end up with the type of person they should.

Perhaps this is a new money circle?? Yes, in some cities like NY viewed favorably to have a big job. But there are plenty of SAHMs married to very successful men.

In my circle those very successful women quit to become stay at home moms once the kids arrive. I just look around at my private school.

You usually can’t tell if someone is a SAHM or not just by looking.

Also, at the most expensive privates the majority of the moms are 45 years old by the time they have a kindergartner. So they may have had a 20 year career before having kids.

We're in public school, but this is me and this is one reason why I find threads like this, and the attitude of some about SAHMs, weird. I actually only SAHMed for a few years and have been part time since, and am now actually planning to go back for a second graduate degree in order to do a career pivoting my late 40s. But I remember when I decided to quit my job when my first was born and I had colleagues who were like "oh no now you'll be dumb and boring and your husband won't respect you anymore!" I was 39, had out-earned him for much of our marriage, and felt I'd done everything I wanted to do in my career. My husband doesn't think I'm dumb or boring -- he asks me for career advice and thinks it's too bad I have zero interest in politics because, according to him, I could finally get that ham sandwich elected.

Some women SAHM because they want a new challenge, not because they are afraid of having a "real" job or don't want to have to think. It's so sad to discover how much women devalue the work of caring for children. Early childhood development is fascinating and finding out how to nurture your own child is deeply rewarding and interesting. I can't figure out if the people who don't understand this are just pretending they don't realize that because they couldn't afford to SAHM or really don't understand it. Either way, it's sad.

So you're someone who enjoys the company of children and is apathetic about current events.

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider you smart.

I SAH. Time to revisit some great literature or philosophical tracts to remind yourself about what some options for a life well-lived could look like. Spoiler: none of them involve obsessing about current events and politics.

I recommend starting with Voltaire's Candide. Find out what he meant when he wrote "one must tend to one's own garden."

+1. Or better yet, not a single old and dying person regrets not having worked more. Everyone wishes they had spent more time with loved ones. Always.

This is an inaccurate representation of the research (as always human feelings are more complex than one-liners), but if you feel this is true, why do you think this is only something you are entitled to and not your husband? Do his deathbed wishes not matter to you?

I would love to see the answer to this question.

Presumably if one parent takes care of all the household stuff, both parents will have more time for kids. when both parents work they theoretically both have to cook, clean, run errands, take care of all the kid stuff (that doesn’t involve actually developing a relationship with the kids, things like finding camps, making doctors appointments, and coordinating play dates) etc. That stuff is work. So both parents work less when one stays at home. And the original comment was about learning about child development and if one parent takes the time to dig into that, they can just give the parent who works outside the home the cliffs notes version. That’s what I do with my husband. I spend all the time doing research so he doesn’t have to. DH spends his weekends taking the kids on outings, doing projects with them, watching shows with them, and playing sports with them. They have developed really strong bonds. He does wish he could spend more time with them because he enjoys it, but I think he still spends more time with them than your average parent and certainly more than any of our parents did with us.

The time commitment involved in being a big law partner sucks but it’s certainly possible to still have an amazing relationship with your kids, and while it’s of course possible to do that with two working parents (I’ve seen many who do), logistically it’s just easier if one stays at home. I did at one point try to go back to work and I personally couldn’t do it. After the kids went to school full time I got a jobby that still lets me do all the things I mentioned above and doesn’t require my husband to have to do any additional work at home. For us, considering our values, our limits, our financial situation (special needs kids are expensive!), I have a hard time imagining something that would work better for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

I really think that most working parents either have a situation like OP’s where both people work reasonable hours and share the load evenly, live near helpful and involved family, have hired help for cooking and after school activities, or don’t actually do all of this stuff every day.

I work 30 hrs per week, DH is a big law partner and we have 3 young kids. We outsource a lot, and I actually don’t think two parents who work full time can do this very easily - you can’t outsource the parenting stuff. Maybe if both parents have flexible jobs, but most families I know have one parent with a flexible job, but rarely both, and they are tired.

It’s not just “taking a child to an appointment”, someone has to talk with the doctor and get feedback/next steps. Also, what time are people getting off of work and picking up kids when working full time? I used to drop my kids at school at 8, office by 9, pickup at 6, bedtime 7:30 - that’s not a lot of time for cooking, talking with kids, homework, solving problems, and bedtime. Maybe you split shifts with you spouse and then you are home earlier, but one of the main reasons I went to 30 hrs per week is so I could stop working at 3 pm (and not 5 pm) and have a couple of extra hours with my kids (while not having to go to bed super early and missing time with me spouse). It’s made a huge difference in my quality time with my kids.

I am not saying this to guilt working parents about what they aren’t doing - but there is a reality about the hours of time when your kids are awake and when you are working. Flexible working helps to some degree, but then you are cutting into time with your spouse. And since women are the ones who seem to get the short end of the stick - either doing the majority of the child/house work and lose out more in a divorce, perpetuating this belief that we can “have it all” is not very helpful. It just makes mothers (like me) who were struggling to make it all work feel like we are failing, when it’s really that we are given unrealistic expectations that we can do all the things a SAHP can do while working a FT job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

It would be great to have a job that is roughly 9-2:30 pm but that’s really hard to find.

Oh, and has several days off for every major holiday, a bunch of random Fridays off, and 10 weeks off in the summer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

I really think that most working parents either have a situation like OP’s where both people work reasonable hours and share the load evenly, live near helpful and involved family, have hired help for cooking and after school activities, or don’t actually do all of this stuff every day.

Agreed. Family helps out, I don’t do those things every day, and work reasonable hours

[Anonymous]

In an ideal world, both parents are healthy and active, have flexible jobs and equally share household responsibilities and child raising while maintaining good intimacy and friendship with each other and have fulfilling social lives and hobbies.

In a real world, you just can't do all that without nannies and house managers, something is gotta give, you'll come short.

There is a reason so many parents resent each other or just divorce. We need fathers and grandparents to be involved and government and employers to improve their policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In an ideal world, both parents are healthy and active, have flexible jobs and equally share household responsibilities and child raising while maintaining good intimacy and friendship with each other and have fulfilling social lives and hobbies.

In a real world, you just can't do all that without nannies and house managers, something is gotta give, you'll come short.

There is a reason so many parents resent each other or just divorce. We need fathers and grandparents to be involved and government and employers to improve their policies.

And money. People I meet outside of DC are doing housework and childcare with their mom while they work at a low level job and their husband works six hours away in the city and stays overnight there during the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working mom with a pretty impressive job.

I think the women who really think their husbands care about their resumes and view them as equal professionals are delusional. Men typically care to the extent you’re not giving them a hard time, it makes their life easier, and they are okay financially. A marriage is NOT successful because the wife has an impressive resume and it gives her husband a hard on.

I agree with this. DH doesn't care at all how much money I do or dont make. He's happy if he's getting laid and I don't give him a hard time. Appreciates it when I dress up and look nice. Appreciates that the kids are smart (due to genetics and environment) but probably doesn't care that I am. I have a fancy resume and so does he but it's not a big deal to him.

Not true in my circle. When wives have "impressive" jobs (successful doctor, lawyer, policy etc) the men in our circle are very, very focused on it. It's seen as a real status symbol.

Of course, i assume that the type of women who are less focused on careers end up with men who are less focused on women with careers - so they are probably happy together. Likewise, women and men who are both very into women have high professional aspirations are likely to end up together. In other words, people end up with the type of person they should.

Perhaps this is a new money circle?? Yes, in some cities like NY viewed favorably to have a big job. But there are plenty of SAHMs married to very successful men.

In my circle those very successful women quit to become stay at home moms once the kids arrive. I just look around at my private school.

You usually can’t tell if someone is a SAHM or not just by looking.

Also, at the most expensive privates the majority of the moms are 45 years old by the time they have a kindergartner. So they may have had a 20 year career before having kids.

We're in public school, but this is me and this is one reason why I find threads like this, and the attitude of some about SAHMs, weird. I actually only SAHMed for a few years and have been part time since, and am now actually planning to go back for a second graduate degree in order to do a career pivoting my late 40s. But I remember when I decided to quit my job when my first was born and I had colleagues who were like "oh no now you'll be dumb and boring and your husband won't respect you anymore!" I was 39, had out-earned him for much of our marriage, and felt I'd done everything I wanted to do in my career. My husband doesn't think I'm dumb or boring -- he asks me for career advice and thinks it's too bad I have zero interest in politics because, according to him, I could finally get that ham sandwich elected.

Some women SAHM because they want a new challenge, not because they are afraid of having a "real" job or don't want to have to think. It's so sad to discover how much women devalue the work of caring for children. Early childhood development is fascinating and finding out how to nurture your own child is deeply rewarding and interesting. I can't figure out if the people who don't understand this are just pretending they don't realize that because they couldn't afford to SAHM or really don't understand it. Either way, it's sad.

So you're someone who enjoys the company of children and is apathetic about current events.

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider you smart.

I SAH. Time to revisit some great literature or philosophical tracts to remind yourself about what some options for a life well-lived could look like. Spoiler: none of them involve obsessing about current events and politics.

I recommend starting with Voltaire's Candide. Find out what he meant when he wrote "one must tend to one's own garden."

+1. Or better yet, not a single old and dying person regrets not having worked more. Everyone wishes they had spent more time with loved ones. Always.

This is an inaccurate representation of the research (as always human feelings are more complex than one-liners), but if you feel this is true, why do you think this is only something you are entitled to and not your husband? Do his deathbed wishes not matter to you?

I would love to see the answer to this question.

Presumably if one parent takes care of all the household stuff, both parents will have more time for kids. when both parents work they theoretically both have to cook, clean, run errands, take care of all the kid stuff (that doesn’t involve actually developing a relationship with the kids, things like finding camps, making doctors appointments, and coordinating play dates) etc. That stuff is work. So both parents work less when one stays at home. And the original comment was about learning about child development and if one parent takes the time to dig into that, they can just give the parent who works outside the home the cliffs notes version. That’s what I do with my husband. I spend all the time doing research so he doesn’t have to. DH spends his weekends taking the kids on outings, doing projects with them, watching shows with them, and playing sports with them. They have developed really strong bonds. He does wish he could spend more time with them because he enjoys it, but I think he still spends more time with them than your average parent and certainly more than any of our parents did with us.

The time commitment involved in being a big law partner sucks but it’s certainly possible to still have an amazing relationship with your kids, and while it’s of course possible to do that with two working parents (I’ve seen many who do), logistically it’s just easier if one stays at home. I did at one point try to go back to work and I personally couldn’t do it. After the kids went to school full time I got a jobby that still lets me do all the things I mentioned above and doesn’t require my husband to have to do any additional work at home. For us, considering our values, our limits, our financial situation (special needs kids are expensive!), I have a hard time imagining something that would work better for us.

I don’t think you need to spend hours a day learning about child development to be a good parent. Yes the books are there but I honestly think a lot of it is common sense. You run the risk of over parenting too if you’re obsessing over other peoples opinions.

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Anonymous wrote:I am a working mom with a pretty impressive job.

I think the women who really think their husbands care about their resumes and view them as equal professionals are delusional. Men typically care to the extent you’re not giving them a hard time, it makes their life easier, and they are okay financially. A marriage is NOT successful because the wife has an impressive resume and it gives her husband a hard on.

I agree with this. DH doesn't care at all how much money I do or dont make. He's happy if he's getting laid and I don't give him a hard time. Appreciates it when I dress up and look nice. Appreciates that the kids are smart (due to genetics and environment) but probably doesn't care that I am. I have a fancy resume and so does he but it's not a big deal to him.

Not true in my circle. When wives have "impressive" jobs (successful doctor, lawyer, policy etc) the men in our circle are very, very focused on it. It's seen as a real status symbol.

Of course, i assume that the type of women who are less focused on careers end up with men who are less focused on women with careers - so they are probably happy together. Likewise, women and men who are both very into women have high professional aspirations are likely to end up together. In other words, people end up with the type of person they should.

Perhaps this is a new money circle?? Yes, in some cities like NY viewed favorably to have a big job. But there are plenty of SAHMs married to very successful men.

In my circle those very successful women quit to become stay at home moms once the kids arrive. I just look around at my private school.

You usually can’t tell if someone is a SAHM or not just by looking.

Also, at the most expensive privates the majority of the moms are 45 years old by the time they have a kindergartner. So they may have had a 20 year career before having kids.

We're in public school, but this is me and this is one reason why I find threads like this, and the attitude of some about SAHMs, weird. I actually only SAHMed for a few years and have been part time since, and am now actually planning to go back for a second graduate degree in order to do a career pivoting my late 40s. But I remember when I decided to quit my job when my first was born and I had colleagues who were like "oh no now you'll be dumb and boring and your husband won't respect you anymore!" I was 39, had out-earned him for much of our marriage, and felt I'd done everything I wanted to do in my career. My husband doesn't think I'm dumb or boring -- he asks me for career advice and thinks it's too bad I have zero interest in politics because, according to him, I could finally get that ham sandwich elected.

Some women SAHM because they want a new challenge, not because they are afraid of having a "real" job or don't want to have to think. It's so sad to discover how much women devalue the work of caring for children. Early childhood development is fascinating and finding out how to nurture your own child is deeply rewarding and interesting. I can't figure out if the people who don't understand this are just pretending they don't realize that because they couldn't afford to SAHM or really don't understand it. Either way, it's sad.

So you're someone who enjoys the company of children and is apathetic about current events.

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider you smart.

I SAH. Time to revisit some great literature or philosophical tracts to remind yourself about what some options for a life well-lived could look like. Spoiler: none of them involve obsessing about current events and politics.

I recommend starting with Voltaire's Candide. Find out what he meant when he wrote "one must tend to one's own garden."

+1. Or better yet, not a single old and dying person regrets not having worked more. Everyone wishes they had spent more time with loved ones. Always.

This is an inaccurate representation of the research (as always human feelings are more complex than one-liners), but if you feel this is true, why do you think this is only something you are entitled to and not your husband? Do his deathbed wishes not matter to you?

I would love to see the answer to this question.

Presumably if one parent takes care of all the household stuff, both parents will have more time for kids. when both parents work they theoretically both have to cook, clean, run errands, take care of all the kid stuff (that doesn’t involve actually developing a relationship with the kids, things like finding camps, making doctors appointments, and coordinating play dates) etc. That stuff is work. So both parents work less when one stays at home. And the original comment was about learning about child development and if one parent takes the time to dig into that, they can just give the parent who works outside the home the cliffs notes version. That’s what I do with my husband. I spend all the time doing research so he doesn’t have to. DH spends his weekends taking the kids on outings, doing projects with them, watching shows with them, and playing sports with them. They have developed really strong bonds. He does wish he could spend more time with them because he enjoys it, but I think he still spends more time with them than your average parent and certainly more than any of our parents did with us.

The time commitment involved in being a big law partner sucks but it’s certainly possible to still have an amazing relationship with your kids, and while it’s of course possible to do that with two working parents (I’ve seen many who do), logistically it’s just easier if one stays at home. I did at one point try to go back to work and I personally couldn’t do it. After the kids went to school full time I got a jobby that still lets me do all the things I mentioned above and doesn’t require my husband to have to do any additional work at home. For us, considering our values, our limits, our financial situation (special needs kids are expensive!), I have a hard time imagining something that would work better for us.

I don’t think you need to spend hours a day learning about child development to be a good parent. Yes the books are there but I honestly think a lot of it is common sense. You run the risk of over parenting too if you’re obsessing over other peoples opinions.

You're wrong about a lot of parenting being common sense. A lot of parents don't take parenting seriously and just do what comes naturally to them or what they saw their parents do, and they don't realize that there are better ways of doing things. You see it on DCUM all the time. For instance they punish a 4-year old for spilling on the couch, but a child that age can't understand that complicated of an instance of cause and effect, and a consequence doesn't do anything except stress everybody out. There are so many little pitfalls like this that you can avoid if you do a little research (not obsessing over it hours a day, hello straw man). This is particularly important in the teen years when behavior seems absolutely baffling and many if not most parents just decide their kids are a$$holes and bide the time until they are out of the house.