SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

It would be great to have a job that is roughly 9-2:30 pm but that’s really hard to find.

Oh, and has several days off for every major holiday, a bunch of random Fridays off, and 10 weeks off in the summer

I think one way to do this is to work for yourself if you have established yourself enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

It would be great to have a job that is roughly 9-2:30 pm but that’s really hard to find.

Oh, and has several days off for every major holiday, a bunch of random Fridays off, and 10 weeks off in the summer

I think one way to do this is to work for yourself if you have established yourself enough.

It doesn't work for every profession.

[Anonymous]

Owning your own business is often more stressful and demanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

+1

Yeah, that’s stupid. This is how normal families across the US work every day. Such a weird outlook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

+1

Yeah, that’s stupid. This is how normal families across the US work every day. Such a weird outlook.

Well, it’s not how I work, not how OP works, and not how many normal families on this thread work. A lot of working parents outsource some of this, split it with a partner, or just don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

+1

Yeah, that’s stupid. This is how normal families across the US work every day. Such a weird outlook.

Well, it’s not how I work, not how OP works, and not how many normal families on this thread work. A lot of working parents outsource some of this, split it with a partner, or just don’t do it.

Of course you split it with a partner. Even single parents split tasks like these, provided the other parent is in the picture. Who doesn’t share these tasks with their partner??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I stay at home and have the same arrangement with my husband. Everything is equal and I buy whatever I want for myself with *our* money.
You realize that staying home to raise children is a pretty intense job if done right? The alternative is a stranger of questionable intelligence and motivation raising one’s kids for $60-70k per year after tax. So why couldn’t I buy myself jewelry or whatever if I do that job for free and better than a nanny?

Are you talking about homeschooling? If not, what do you know that’s so intense once your kids are out of school?

School is 8:30am-3pm, 170 days in a year. You do the math.
And yes, kids need us even after they start school. There are health issues, appointments, homework, after school activities, social drama etc to navigate. I cook home made, healthy meals. I read to them every day. And so on.
Sure, someone with inferior decision making abilities owning to inferior education could navigate some of that while I am at work, but that is not what I wanted for my family.

I do that stuff and I have a job too.

Ok it’s time someone said it. NO YOU DON’T. No one is juggling all the balls and nothing is getting dropped and doing it all! It’s just that simple. Something is getting cut somewhere. You’re cutting time from your kids or from your job and only you know which one it is but it’s BS and no one is buying it.

So you’re seriously saying that someone with a job cannot

Deal with their kids health issues
Bring their kids to appointments
Help their kids with their homework
Enroll their kids in after-school activities
Help their kids navigate “social drama”
Cook meals every day
And read to their kids everyday?

That is absurd. Any parent worth a damn does all of these things for their kids, whether they work or not. You don’t have to malign working parents to justify your decision to stay home.

+1

Yeah, that’s stupid. This is how normal families across the US work every day. Such a weird outlook.

Well, it’s not how I work, not how OP works, and not how many normal families on this thread work. A lot of working parents outsource some of this, split it with a partner, or just don’t do it.

Of course you split it with a partner. Even single parents split tasks like these, provided the other parent is in the picture. Who doesn’t share these tasks with their partner??

SAHMs of school aged kids.
Not all of them, but a lot of SAHMs do the cooking, shuttling to and from school and activities, taking kids to doctors appointments, homework help, and deal with the school drama.

It’s fine if it isn’t the life for you, but you don’t need to minimize the stuff they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a healthy marriage it doesn't matter who works or SAH - you're a team and the money is both of yours.

- WOHM

Sure Jan.

[Anonymous]

I am a SAHM.
--I buy whatever I want and have no qualms, don't check with DH, etc. I, however, am not a big shopper and am pretty frugal.
--I also handle all of our savings, investments, 529 accounts, IRAs, 401k, pay the bills, etc. I track our net worth, keep on top of what's going on in the market. I majored in finance.
--When we had a house rental, I handled finding the renters, collecting the rent, taking calls, etc.
--I take/took all three kids to dentist, doctors, orthodontist, activities during the week
--I planned all birthday parties and three Bar/Bat Mitzvot
--I handle all school-related stuff like teacher conferences, SATs, researching colleges, college applications/essays
--I do the grocery shopping, house supply shopping and cook most of our meals, many from scratch
--We split housework, mostly along traditional gender lines

I chose to be a SAHM, although I worked part-time until third child was born. I could have gone back when my youngest went to middle school, but financially, it was working out well for us and it gave us both much more flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a SAHM.
--I buy whatever I want and have no qualms, don't check with DH, etc. I, however, am not a big shopper and am pretty frugal.
--I also handle all of our savings, investments, 529 accounts, IRAs, 401k, pay the bills, etc. I track our net worth, keep on top of what's going on in the market. I majored in finance.
--When we had a house rental, I handled finding the renters, collecting the rent, taking calls, etc.
--I take/took all three kids to dentist, doctors, orthodontist, activities during the week
--I planned all birthday parties and three Bar/Bat Mitzvot
--I handle all school-related stuff like teacher conferences, SATs, researching colleges, college applications/essays
--I do the grocery shopping, house supply shopping and cook most of our meals, many from scratch
--We split housework, mostly along traditional gender lines

I chose to be a SAHM, although I worked part-time until third child was born. I could have gone back when my youngest went to middle school, but financially, it was working out well for us and it gave us both much more flexibility.

Most SAHMs wear many hats, just because there is no W2, it doesn't mean work hours or load doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am a working mom with a pretty impressive job.

I think the women who really think their husbands care about their resumes and view them as equal professionals are delusional. Men typically care to the extent you’re not giving them a hard time, it makes their life easier, and they are okay financially. A marriage is NOT successful because the wife has an impressive resume and it gives her husband a hard on.

I agree with this. DH doesn't care at all how much money I do or dont make. He's happy if he's getting laid and I don't give him a hard time. Appreciates it when I dress up and look nice. Appreciates that the kids are smart (due to genetics and environment) but probably doesn't care that I am. I have a fancy resume and so does he but it's not a big deal to him.

Not true in my circle. When wives have "impressive" jobs (successful doctor, lawyer, policy etc) the men in our circle are very, very focused on it. It's seen as a real status symbol.

Of course, i assume that the type of women who are less focused on careers end up with men who are less focused on women with careers - so they are probably happy together. Likewise, women and men who are both very into women have high professional aspirations are likely to end up together. In other words, people end up with the type of person they should.

Perhaps this is a new money circle?? Yes, in some cities like NY viewed favorably to have a big job. But there are plenty of SAHMs married to very successful men.

In my circle those very successful women quit to become stay at home moms once the kids arrive. I just look around at my private school.

You usually can’t tell if someone is a SAHM or not just by looking.

Also, at the most expensive privates the majority of the moms are 45 years old by the time they have a kindergartner. So they may have had a 20 year career before having kids.

We're in public school, but this is me and this is one reason why I find threads like this, and the attitude of some about SAHMs, weird. I actually only SAHMed for a few years and have been part time since, and am now actually planning to go back for a second graduate degree in order to do a career pivoting my late 40s. But I remember when I decided to quit my job when my first was born and I had colleagues who were like "oh no now you'll be dumb and boring and your husband won't respect you anymore!" I was 39, had out-earned him for much of our marriage, and felt I'd done everything I wanted to do in my career. My husband doesn't think I'm dumb or boring -- he asks me for career advice and thinks it's too bad I have zero interest in politics because, according to him, I could finally get that ham sandwich elected.

Some women SAHM because they want a new challenge, not because they are afraid of having a "real" job or don't want to have to think. It's so sad to discover how much women devalue the work of caring for children. Early childhood development is fascinating and finding out how to nurture your own child is deeply rewarding and interesting. I can't figure out if the people who don't understand this are just pretending they don't realize that because they couldn't afford to SAHM or really don't understand it. Either way, it's sad.

So you're someone who enjoys the company of children and is apathetic about current events.

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider you smart.

I SAH. Time to revisit some great literature or philosophical tracts to remind yourself about what some options for a life well-lived could look like. Spoiler: none of them involve obsessing about current events and politics.

I recommend starting with Voltaire's Candide. Find out what he meant when he wrote "one must tend to one's own garden."

+1. Or better yet, not a single old and dying person regrets not having worked more. Everyone wishes they had spent more time with loved ones. Always.

This is an inaccurate representation of the research (as always human feelings are more complex than one-liners), but if you feel this is true, why do you think this is only something you are entitled to and not your husband? Do his deathbed wishes not matter to you?

I would love to see the answer to this question.

Presumably if one parent takes care of all the household stuff, both parents will have more time for kids. when both parents work they theoretically both have to cook, clean, run errands, take care of all the kid stuff (that doesn’t involve actually developing a relationship with the kids, things like finding camps, making doctors appointments, and coordinating play dates) etc. That stuff is work. So both parents work less when one stays at home. And the original comment was about learning about child development and if one parent takes the time to dig into that, they can just give the parent who works outside the home the cliffs notes version. That’s what I do with my husband. I spend all the time doing research so he doesn’t have to. DH spends his weekends taking the kids on outings, doing projects with them, watching shows with them, and playing sports with them. They have developed really strong bonds. He does wish he could spend more time with them because he enjoys it, but I think he still spends more time with them than your average parent and certainly more than any of our parents did with us.

The time commitment involved in being a big law partner sucks but it’s certainly possible to still have an amazing relationship with your kids, and while it’s of course possible to do that with two working parents (I’ve seen many who do), logistically it’s just easier if one stays at home. I did at one point try to go back to work and I personally couldn’t do it. After the kids went to school full time I got a jobby that still lets me do all the things I mentioned above and doesn’t require my husband to have to do any additional work at home. For us, considering our values, our limits, our financial situation (special needs kids are expensive!), I have a hard time imagining something that would work better for us.

I don’t think you need to spend hours a day learning about child development to be a good parent. Yes the books are there but I honestly think a lot of it is common sense. You run the risk of over parenting too if you’re obsessing over other peoples opinions.

You're wrong about a lot of parenting being common sense. A lot of parents don't take parenting seriously and just do what comes naturally to them or what they saw their parents do, and they don't realize that there are better ways of doing things. You see it on DCUM all the time. For instance they punish a 4-year old for spilling on the couch, but a child that age can't understand that complicated of an instance of cause and effect, and a consequence doesn't do anything except stress everybody out. There are so many little pitfalls like this that you can avoid if you do a little research (not obsessing over it hours a day, hello straw man). This is particularly important in the teen years when behavior seems absolutely baffling and many if not most parents just decide their kids are a$$holes and bide the time until they are out of the house.

Common sense and a little research, then. I was just trying to point out that working parents who don’t have a lot of time to read books on child development can still be good parents too.

[Anonymous]

This is such a strange thread! I’ll be coming into a lot of money. There is no point in my working anymore. My DH simply does NOT care.

I’ll spend my days managing our household, taking weekend trips, planning vacations, exercise classes, shopping in a nearby city, taking kids to activities etc. I’ve worked for decades and don’t feel remotely bad about no longer working. My DH doesn’t care either. Only way he’d care would be if me not working reduced the quality of his life and it won’t.

Most people are working for a paycheck since you would no longer go to work if they stopped paying you. Some people get meaning from work, but not all. Sounds like a lot of women are convinced that the quality of the relationship with their DH is dependent on them earning a W2. I have a feeling most DHs would find them silly if they won the lottery and kept working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on the finances. I get it if one spouse makes $1m+ (fewer than 3 kids) and will do consistently for x many years - and net worth at least $5m, but any less than that it is weird for one spouse to not work if can bc how are you saving to set your kids up for best possible life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a big law partner and a lot of my male colleagues have wives who are SAHMs. I'm not super involved in their marriages, obviously, but just from hearing how they talk amongst themselves, it seems like a lot of them lose respect for their wives. All conversations become about the kids or the household, and they start seeing their wives more as a mother to their kids than a true partner and equal. They do love their wives, and I think their marriages are mostly happy, but it does sometimes feel like they see their colleagues (male and female) as their peers and their wives as a step beneath - and that's with the good ones. As you probably know, cheating is rampant in big law. This may be unique to law, and big law in particular, where people tend to make their career their personality and most of their self worth.

Yes - I have also seen this from male friends of mine. Not until 40s - I think it’s based on the kids being at school full time and the wife is still like - spending the day walking a dog and saying stuff takes up the whole time. Women get super mad when you suggest this but when so many women work and raise school aged kids it creates a cognitive dissonance

I am in my 40s, and my wife is a SAHM with school aged kids. I don't feel this way at all. When I see the families with two full time parents with multiple kids, it creates no cognitive dissonance at all because they seem overstretched and generally pretty harried and unhappy. So, yes, we could have more money if my wife worked full time, but I don't think it's worth and am glad she doesn't. I know several other men in my same circumstance, and I never hear that they wished their wives would work more. So it is all anecdotal, but I doubt you are really seeing this from your male friends, or you just have a different social set than I do.