Asians are NOT the model minority: the Affirmative Action Chess Game

[Anonymous]

What matters with is what's going to be like from now on.

It'll be race blind for all schools.

Some like MIT, GIT, UF, UG, etc. will requrire test scores.
Some like UCB, UCLA, CalTech will be test blind.
Many will be Test Optional.

So game on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What matters with is what's going to be like from now on.

It'll be race blind for all schools.

Some like MIT, GIT, UF, UG, etc. will requrire test scores.
Some like UCB, UCLA, CalTech will be test blind.
Many will be Test Optional.

So game on.

You act like those are the only options.

HYP could recruit all their students as they do athletes. That'd actually be LESS work for them and they would get whoever they wanted.

That's right, Larlo might not be even able to apply. HYP skims the cream before everyone else's ED deadline.

Be careful what you wish for!

Be careful what you wish for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't really matter who thinks what, discriminating by race in admissions will be illegal as of next year. Thank the lord.

Yup! That god. Our country has become so freaking racist. So glad we have the current Supreme Court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Just want to pause and reflect on this.

LOL. I guess I could have phrased that better. To be clear, I studied the languages because I love the culture. I dated the (2) women because I loved them.

You are the very definition of racist. I bet you fetishize Asian women. 🤮🤮

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to. You wasted all those words! I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker. Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560. Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law. If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.

PP here. For what it’s worth, our daughter was waitlisted at both Harvard and Princeton but did not get off either waitlists, so she was “close.” But overall we were pleased that she got into 3 ivies and Duke still - Duke was one of her top 5 or so choices, and the only schools she would have picked over Duke are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and maybe Princeton. She was waitlisted at Columbia and rejected from Yale, but would have picked Duke over both (she didn’t stay on the Columbia waitlist and did not care much for Yale).

[Anonymous]

I think applications should be completely scrubbed. No names, no ages, no race, no gender, no address. Only thing that should be visible is economic status, grades, test scores and gender, sexual orientation, and race neutral essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Just want to pause and reflect on this.

LOL. I guess I could have phrased that better. To be clear, I studied the languages because I love the culture. I dated the (2) women because I loved them.

You are the very definition of racist. I bet you fetishize Asian women. 🤮🤮

Buh-bye, troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to. You wasted all those words! I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker. Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560. Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law. If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.

PP here. For what it’s worth, our daughter was waitlisted at both Harvard and Princeton but did not get off either waitlists, so she was “close.” But overall we were pleased that she got into 3 ivies and Duke still - Duke was one of her top 5 or so choices, and the only schools she would have picked over Duke are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and maybe Princeton. She was waitlisted at Columbia and rejected from Yale, but would have picked Duke over both (she didn’t stay on the Columbia waitlist and did not care much for Yale).

Congrats to your daughter; getting into basically half the Ivy League and being able to attend Duke is no easy feat. Unfortunately the rejections and waitlists likely reflect the competitiveness of the process more than your daughter’s abilities. If there was racial discrimination at play, we’ll see what the Supreme Court says!

Also side note, as a longtime Terp I miss the days we could make fun of Duke for being a school for Ivy League rejects. Unfortunately it isn’t that anymore, and now they’re just annoying to play. I guess we can still make fun of it for being a Harvard backup?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to. You wasted all those words! I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker. Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560. Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law. If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.

PP here. For what it’s worth, our daughter was waitlisted at both Harvard and Princeton but did not get off either waitlists, so she was “close.” But overall we were pleased that she got into 3 ivies and Duke still - Duke was one of her top 5 or so choices, and the only schools she would have picked over Duke are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and maybe Princeton. She was waitlisted at Columbia and rejected from Yale, but would have picked Duke over both (she didn’t stay on the Columbia waitlist and did not care much for Yale).

Congrats to your daughter; getting into basically half the Ivy League and being able to attend Duke is no easy feat. Unfortunately the rejections and waitlists likely reflect the competitiveness of the process more than your daughter’s abilities. If there was racial discrimination at play, we’ll see what the Supreme Court says!

Also side note, as a longtime Terp I miss the days we could make fun of Duke for being a school for Ivy League rejects. Unfortunately it isn’t that anymore, and now they’re just annoying to play. I guess we can still make fun of it for being a Harvard backup?

Hello fellow Terp. I agree Duke has the most annoying basketball team on this planet but being a Harvard backup isn’t much of an insult. Point being I don’t think we can really make fun of Duke along the academics and prestige line… just my 2c. Would any of us really scoff at an opportunity to send our kids to Duke? Not really. But them consistently losing to UNC despite having the best recruiting classes each year is far funnier.

[Anonymous]

If people want only test scores and grades then apply to Oxford/Cambridge or cal tech or schools in Asia. It has NEVER been the case that only grades and test scores are looked at to get into the top schools. The other issue is that not everyone can be a computer science, engineering, or pre-med major. Universities should be able to choose who they want in the way they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people want only test scores and grades then apply to Oxford/Cambridge or cal tech or schools in Asia. It has NEVER been the case that only grades and test scores are looked at to get into the top schools. The other issue is that not everyone can be a computer science, engineering, or pre-med major. Universities should be able to choose who they want in the way they want.

That’s just like, your opinion, man

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

So was there racial discrimination or not?
The Supreme Court will tell us.

4
You still don't understand the math. Or maybe you just don't want to? And you chose to ignore the premise of the post you responded to, which is a classic troll technique.

Who cares about the math.
Eliminate racial discrimination and promote fair competition.
Thats all. By the way I'm a different poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

So was there racial discrimination or not?
The Supreme Court will tell us.

4
You still don't understand the math. Or maybe you just don't want to? And you chose to ignore the premise of the post you responded to, which is a classic troll technique.

Who cares about the math.
Eliminate racial discrimination and promote fair competition.
Thats all. By the way I'm a different poster.

Don’t you have algebra homework to finish tonight?

[Anonymous]

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Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to. You wasted all those words! I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker. Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560. Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law. If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.

PP here. For what it’s worth, our daughter was waitlisted at both Harvard and Princeton but did not get off either waitlists, so she was “close.” But overall we were pleased that she got into 3 ivies and Duke still - Duke was one of her top 5 or so choices, and the only schools she would have picked over Duke are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and maybe Princeton. She was waitlisted at Columbia and rejected from Yale, but would have picked Duke over both (she didn’t stay on the Columbia waitlist and did not care much for Yale).

Congrats to your daughter; getting into basically half the Ivy League and being able to attend Duke is no easy feat. Unfortunately the rejections and waitlists likely reflect the competitiveness of the process more than your daughter’s abilities. If there was racial discrimination at play, we’ll see what the Supreme Court says!

Also side note, as a longtime Terp I miss the days we could make fun of Duke for being a school for Ivy League rejects. Unfortunately it isn’t that anymore, and now they’re just annoying to play. I guess we can still make fun of it for being a Harvard backup?

Thank you! We enjoy watching basketball games together with our daughter when she’s home for break! And maybe it is a Harvard backup but our daughter has really enjoyed Duke so far, so it’s a worthy consolation prize for her Harvard waitlist!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people want only test scores and grades then apply to Oxford/Cambridge or cal tech or schools in Asia. It has NEVER been the case that only grades and test scores are looked at to get into the top schools. The other issue is that not everyone can be a computer science, engineering, or pre-med major. Universities should be able to choose who they want in the way they want.

Nope, they can't have racial quota and racial discrimination