Asians are NOT the model minority: the Affirmative Action Chess Game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably. [Sure thing, weeb]

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly.

Nope. You were saying that Asians who got rejected lacked leadership qualities and are just boring grade-grubbing drones. Standard racist excuse for racism.

How can you say he's a racist - he's a guy with an Asian woman fetish.

FYI, I'm the one who posted the original statement, which I believe is being deliberately misinterpreted in order to have some fun at my expense because I worded my comment very awkwardly. That's fine, I probably deserve it. But I do not and have never had an Asian woman fetish. All I was trying to say was that race has never entered into my consideration of whom I should be interested in, which I thought might lead one to believe I'm not a racist. And my point in doing that was to hopefully (but apparently not) get the poster who called me a racist to think about their overuse of the term, which is thrown around very loosely these days.

Taking race (and most other traits) into consideration when interacting with others is a stupid way to go through life. Even if there are things that are true about one race more than another, there's nothing that can be said to be absolutely true about every member of any given race. Which means that we should be approaching each person as an individual and asking ourselves who that one person is. Any other approach views others through a veil that never allows an accurate understanding of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Many students of all backgrounds with similar accomplishments share this disappointment every year. No, a different last name would not have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

that list describes 50% of the kids parents post about on this website. these schools don't accept many students. in fact, the consistent rejections by the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford actually suggest that the decision might not have been that random or unusual. It's not like those schools have different admissions practices than the schools to which she was admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

that list describes 50% of the kids parents post about on this website. these schools don't accept many students. in fact, the consistent rejections by the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford actually suggest that the decision might not have been that random or unusual. It's not like those schools have different admissions practices than the schools to which she was admitted.

+1 These days, top students from all over the world are applying to the schools that turned this student and many like her down. With over 100 million people turning 18 in any given year, that's over 5 million in the top 5% who could realistically look at the most elite colleges. Many prefer to stay close to home or don't go to college for various reasons, but I'll bet at least a hundred thousand (2%) from the top 1% worldwide every year put in at least one app to one of the Ivies or other equivalent colleges. That's a lot of serious talent to compete with!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

that list describes 50% of the kids parents post about on this website. these schools don't accept many students. in fact, the consistent rejections by the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford actually suggest that the decision might not have been that random or unusual. It's not like those schools have different admissions practices than the schools to which she was admitted.

You really don't see a logical fallacy in your words? If the admissions practices weren't different, the outcome should have been the same for your argument to hold water.

Like you said, the consistent rejections suggest something else is at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

So was there racial discrimination or not?
The Supreme Court will tell us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

So was there racial discrimination or not?
The Supreme Court will tell us.

You still don't understand the math. Or maybe you just don't want to? And you chose to ignore the premise of the post you responded to, which is a classic troll technique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

that list describes 50% of the kids parents post about on this website. these schools don't accept many students. in fact, the consistent rejections by the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Stanford actually suggest that the decision might not have been that random or unusual. It's not like those schools have different admissions practices than the schools to which she was admitted.

You really don't see a logical fallacy in your words? If the admissions practices weren't different, the outcome should have been the same for your argument to hold water.

Like you said, the consistent rejections suggest something else is at play.

there's no logical fallacy. the bar is higher at some schools than others. they all decided her kid didn't meet it. she was accepted at the 8-15% acceptance rate schools and denied at the sub 8% ones.

It's not like Penn or Duke don't practice holistic admissions but Stanford does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to. You wasted all those words! I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker. Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560. Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law. If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

I am not going to attack your math, but one thing I have learned on this board is that you don't send anything less than a 1500 SAT to an Ivy and expect a successful outcome. It is also that a high SAT is not enough, nor is a perfect GPA. Given the arms race that is elite higher education, how can you say a set of numbers is evidence of anything. My child has a 4.0 UW GPA, a 1490 SAT, APs (all As) that track the highest rigor at their high school. I am super proud of my kid, and everyone on this board would be surprised if my UMC white child got into an Ivy with these stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

the only thing this proves is that you have a laughably simplistic view of college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population?

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing!

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math.

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be
Asians 45%
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.

I'm not the one you're responding to, but I feel the need to point out that you're making a huge assumption that there ought to be a direct correlation between test scores and admission to elite colleges. There's a lot more to it than that, in this country anyway.

Also, I think you overestimate the importance of attending one of these elite schools. The education is no stronger than at their standard backup schools, and while there might be a tiny advantage to having that name on your diploma when applying for your first job or for grad school depending on the field you're going into, that advantage quickly disappears once you've got a few years of work under your belt.

Oh, and it's not racist to challenge what you believe to be a misunderstanding, although I think a lot of people on this site aren't very nice about how they do it.