Asians are NOT the model minority: the Affirmative Action Chess Game

[Anonymous]

Unless all students were given equal opportunities at HS level hard to say who is more qualified.

Which is why in business world we finally see it.

To be honest I greatly outperformed at start of my career super high GPA students. I was used to winging it and getting stuff done last minute. I start term papers at 11 pm night before. Do homework on way to school. Everything last minute with almost no preparation.

At work that is a great quality at school a terrible one

[Anonymous]

What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of 3 wonderful, talented, bright Asian kids, I’m so tired of being told I should just cope because attacking AA will hurt other different minorities. I don’t want to do that, but you aren’t offering me any solutions to address my kids’ harm. Tell me what you want to do instead for my kids to have a fair shot given their stats and I’m all ears.

Your kids get even more screwed by legacy and athletic admissions.

How odd that you assume my kids aren’t athletes.

well, then you're screwing other kids and are being shameless about "my kids' harm". Congratulations.

Fact regardless your kids aren’t getting into Harvard. But like most kids who want to get into college they will get in somewhere. You are very angry. Find some balance or you won’t live long enough to see your kids grow up and become everyday ordinary cogs in the giant machine. They aren’t that special and no one is owed a Harvard admit, I mean faculty kids are owed but no one else is. Lighten up buttercup.

OK so now let's apply these arguments to African-Americans. They'll get into college somewhere, they'll become everyday ordinary cogs in the giant machine, they're not owed a Harvard admit. Ergo, we can get rid of affirmative action. Right?

They’re not owed it but if the college chooses to institute it then they can.

Become a private entity and give up all the tax benefits and state/federal aids, then institue it.

Even then they are not allowed to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

You do know that "Spanish" denotes people from Spain.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it considered a hardship that most Asian kids don't get to see many teachers, class fellows, sports coaches, police, people in power on national news etc who look like them?

? Asians see plenty of people who look like them in class. Most Asians live in big cities with a decent size Asian population. The rest, I agree, but you know the progressives won't care about that because Asian Americans as a whole are doing well, hence the "model minority". Yes, I know... there are many Asian Americans that aren't doing well, but the white progressive liberal establishment likes to ignore that fact.

that might be true, but we also know what the white right-wing, Trumpists think of us and that's markedly worse.

I think Asian-Americans are great! My college roommate in California was Japanese-American, my best buddy here in NoVA is Chinese-American. My buddy here, by the way, thinks Asians are getting screwed by the elite schools, which I agree with, and he's concerned about the impact on his kids when they apply to college.

Signed,

A white right-wing, Trumpist

how can an overrepresented group be discriminated against. Kinda like black men saying not enough black men in the NBA

It is underrepresented compared to the number who should be there based on academic merit (and yes, extracurriculars too). If you don't get this, you're too dumb to be in this conversation.

To use your NBA analogy, right now the NBA is 73% black and 17% white. But let's say the NBA started recruiting more whites, Hispanics, and Asians - to increase diversity! - until the NBA was 50% black. With a 50% black NBA, blacks are still overrepresented relative to their proportion of the population. So by your logic they should be happy. But it should be obvious that the blacks, in that case, were discriminated against and underrepresented relative to their actual merit.

There is no proof they are more qualified. I HS I worked in town library. I say Asians and Nerdy Jewish kids lived at library. This is preinternet. They spend 20-30 hours a week in cliques at tables plotting and scheming with each other on homework and projects. Figuring how to get easier teachers. SAT tutors and college essay writers. Pretty much all 4 years HS was focused on application

My low GPA in HS and can level ater in life I met the Valedictorian of my college and one of highest GPA in my HS and both commented I was smarter than them. Mainly cause in college I worked 24 hours a week, took 18 credits, had a girl friend, was in a frat, I also really liked going out. I would go to bars and clubs several nights a week. I study on average zero per day. But during class or even break at work or parking lot do it.

So it is not really apples to apples. Me taking a single 100 percent cumulative final after missing 80 perc⁴ent of class and studying night before and getting a C is pretty amazing.

My most amazing student not me was a kid at Stonybrook with me. He left for two months to follow Dead on the road and came back week before finals and got a 4.0. He is now a doctor.

I think legalized cheating is still cheating.

Im all in favor of including IQ test(smartness)
We do that for AAP and also colleges in some other countries actually do that. I wonder who this would benefit 🤔

That would benefit those who enrich and prep as aspects of those tests can be prepared for, and students with enrichment do better on standardized tests across the board. My kids participate in an NIH study that uses IQ testing, and the head of the study confirmed that they don't measure intelligence.

Of course somebody you know confirmed it while it's used in numerous counties

Why countries use actual IQ testing? It does not scale. Those tests are done 1:1 for several hours, usually over a few days. I’d be curious what countries do this and who they are testing (just the rich kids?)

You can nitpick that NNAT/CogAt are not IQ test, but those are used to identify gifted/smart kids.

But those are also preppable. If you disagree, go to the AAP thread and look at all of the discussion on prepping for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

what I would love to see is for high ed institutions and people in general judge others by the content of their character, and not the color of their skin.

BTW the "spanish" are white people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of 3 wonderful, talented, bright Asian kids, I’m so tired of being told I should just cope because attacking AA will hurt other different minorities. I don’t want to do that, but you aren’t offering me any solutions to address my kids’ harm. Tell me what you want to do instead for my kids to have a fair shot given their stats and I’m all ears.

Your kids get even more screwed by legacy and athletic admissions.

How odd that you assume my kids aren’t athletes.

well, then you're screwing other kids and are being shameless about "my kids' harm". Congratulations.

Fact regardless your kids aren’t getting into Harvard. But like most kids who want to get into college they will get in somewhere. You are very angry. Find some balance or you won’t live long enough to see your kids grow up and become everyday ordinary cogs in the giant machine. They aren’t that special and no one is owed a Harvard admit, I mean faculty kids are owed but no one else is. Lighten up buttercup.

.

👍

OK so now let's apply these arguments to African-Americans. They'll get into college somewhere, they'll become everyday ordinary cogs in the giant machine, they're not owed a Harvard admit. Ergo, we can get rid of affirmative action. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it considered a hardship that most Asian kids don't get to see many teachers, class fellows, sports coaches, police, people in power on national news etc who look like them?

? Asians see plenty of people who look like them in class. Most Asians live in big cities with a decent size Asian population. The rest, I agree, but you know the progressives won't care about that because Asian Americans as a whole are doing well, hence the "model minority". Yes, I know... there are many Asian Americans that aren't doing well, but the white progressive liberal establishment likes to ignore that fact.

that might be true, but we also know what the white right-wing, Trumpists think of us and that's markedly worse.

I think Asian-Americans are great! My college roommate in California was Japanese-American, my best buddy here in NoVA is Chinese-American. My buddy here, by the way, thinks Asians are getting screwed by the elite schools, which I agree with, and he's concerned about the impact on his kids when they apply to college.

Signed,

A white right-wing, Trumpist

how can an overrepresented group be discriminated against. Kinda like black men saying not enough black men in the NBA

It is underrepresented compared to the number who should be there based on academic merit (and yes, extracurriculars too). If you don't get this, you're too dumb to be in this conversation.

To use your NBA analogy, right now the NBA is 73% black and 17% white. But let's say the NBA started recruiting more whites, Hispanics, and Asians - to increase diversity! - until the NBA was 50% black. With a 50% black NBA, blacks are still overrepresented relative to their proportion of the population. So by your logic they should be happy. But it should be obvious that the blacks, in that case, were discriminated against and underrepresented relative to their actual merit.

Again with the stupid NBA analogy! Not applicable. Apples and oranges at best.

Players are only 38% of the NBA's employees, and I guarantee you that there is a representative balance across the league, as well as with the individual clubs, venues and others.

Stupid, stupid analogy! Stop it!

I don’t love the NBA analogy that’s frequently used, but your critique of it is even more ridiculous. Trying to loop in NBA team office and stadium workers with NBA players themselves and arguing that’s a “diverse environment” would seem to support the opposite of your position. That is, colleges should just be relying on the diversity of their non-student employees (which may very well have a larger share of underrepresented minorities) to create a diverse environment as opposed to applying discriminatory tactics (disproportionately impacting Asian applicants) to shape the student classes themselves.

+1

Whoever initiated this stupid NBA analogy has no clue.

They really are. Funny thing is the real money is made by the white men who own the nba teams! LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

That would be awesome as long as the Black student is descended on both sides from slaves and the other student is Native American on both sides. In both cases, they should also be first gen. No other 'race' deserves set asides. If low income is a criterion, it should be apply to everyone. Why is a low income White kid not deserving of a helping hand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

That would be awesome as long as the Black student is descended on both sides from slaves and the other student is Native American on both sides. In both cases, they should also be first gen. No other 'race' deserves set asides. If low income is a criterion, it should be apply to everyone. Why is a low income White kid not deserving of a helping hand?

This post shows you have no clue as to why colleges seek racial balance in admissions. You think you know, but you do not, and you have never tried to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

That would be awesome as long as the Black student is descended on both sides from slaves and the other student is Native American on both sides. In both cases, they should also be first gen. No other 'race' deserves set asides. If low income is a criterion, it should be apply to everyone. Why is a low income White kid not deserving of a helping hand?

This post shows you have no clue as to why colleges seek racial balance in admissions. You think you know, but you do not, and you have never tried to learn.

I'm not aware of any college that says they seek racial balance in admissions. They say they consider race for purposes of diversity.
Racial quotas are illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it considered a hardship that most Asian kids don't get to see many teachers, class fellows, sports coaches, police, people in power on national news etc who look like them?

? Asians see plenty of people who look like them in class. Most Asians live in big cities with a decent size Asian population. The rest, I agree, but you know the progressives won't care about that because Asian Americans as a whole are doing well, hence the "model minority". Yes, I know... there are many Asian Americans that aren't doing well, but the white progressive liberal establishment likes to ignore that fact.

that might be true, but we also know what the white right-wing, Trumpists think of us and that's markedly worse.

I think Asian-Americans are great! My college roommate in California was Japanese-American, my best buddy here in NoVA is Chinese-American. My buddy here, by the way, thinks Asians are getting screwed by the elite schools, which I agree with, and he's concerned about the impact on his kids when they apply to college.

Signed,

A white right-wing, Trumpist

how can an overrepresented group be discriminated against. Kinda like black men saying not enough black men in the NBA

It is underrepresented compared to the number who should be there based on academic merit (and yes, extracurriculars too). If you don't get this, you're too dumb to be in this conversation.

To use your NBA analogy, right now the NBA is 73% black and 17% white. But let's say the NBA started recruiting more whites, Hispanics, and Asians - to increase diversity! - until the NBA was 50% black. With a 50% black NBA, blacks are still overrepresented relative to their proportion of the population. So by your logic they should be happy. But it should be obvious that the blacks, in that case, were discriminated against and underrepresented relative to their actual merit.

There is no proof they are more qualified. I HS I worked in town library. I say Asians and Nerdy Jewish kids lived at library. This is preinternet. They spend 20-30 hours a week in cliques at tables plotting and scheming with each other on homework and projects. Figuring how to get easier teachers. SAT tutors and college essay writers. Pretty much all 4 years HS was focused on application

My low GPA in HS and can level ater in life I met the Valedictorian of my college and one of highest GPA in my HS and both commented I was smarter than them. Mainly cause in college I worked 24 hours a week, took 18 credits, had a girl friend, was in a frat, I also really liked going out. I would go to bars and clubs several nights a week. I study on average zero per day. But during class or even break at work or parking lot do it.

So it is not really apples to apples. Me taking a single 100 percent cumulative final after missing 80 perc⁴ent of class and studying night before and getting a C is pretty amazing.

My most amazing student not me was a kid at Stonybrook with me. He left for two months to follow Dead on the road and came back week before finals and got a 4.0. He is now a doctor.

I think legalized cheating is still cheating.

Im all in favor of including IQ test(smartness)
We do that for AAP and also colleges in some other countries actually do that. I wonder who this would benefit 🤔

That would benefit those who enrich and prep as aspects of those tests can be prepared for, and students with enrichment do better on standardized tests across the board. My kids participate in an NIH study that uses IQ testing, and the head of the study confirmed that they don't measure intelligence.

Of course somebody you know confirmed it while it's used in numerous counties

Why countries use actual IQ testing? It does not scale. Those tests are done 1:1 for several hours, usually over a few days. I’d be curious what countries do this and who they are testing (just the rich kids?)

You can nitpick that NNAT/CogAt are not IQ test, but those are used to identify gifted/smart kids.

But those are also preppable. If you disagree, go to the AAP thread and look at all of the discussion on prepping for them.

Of course everything is preppable to a certain degree. Thats how human brain works. What's your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it considered a hardship that most Asian kids don't get to see many teachers, class fellows, sports coaches, police, people in power on national news etc who look like them?

? Asians see plenty of people who look like them in class. Most Asians live in big cities with a decent size Asian population. The rest, I agree, but you know the progressives won't care about that because Asian Americans as a whole are doing well, hence the "model minority". Yes, I know... there are many Asian Americans that aren't doing well, but the white progressive liberal establishment likes to ignore that fact.

that might be true, but we also know what the white right-wing, Trumpists think of us and that's markedly worse.

I think Asian-Americans are great! My college roommate in California was Japanese-American, my best buddy here in NoVA is Chinese-American. My buddy here, by the way, thinks Asians are getting screwed by the elite schools, which I agree with, and he's concerned about the impact on his kids when they apply to college.

Signed,

A white right-wing, Trumpist

how can an overrepresented group be discriminated against. Kinda like black men saying not enough black men in the NBA

It is underrepresented compared to the number who should be there based on academic merit (and yes, extracurriculars too). If you don't get this, you're too dumb to be in this conversation.

To use your NBA analogy, right now the NBA is 73% black and 17% white. But let's say the NBA started recruiting more whites, Hispanics, and Asians - to increase diversity! - until the NBA was 50% black. With a 50% black NBA, blacks are still overrepresented relative to their proportion of the population. So by your logic they should be happy. But it should be obvious that the blacks, in that case, were discriminated against and underrepresented relative to their actual merit.

There is no proof they are more qualified. I HS I worked in town library. I say Asians and Nerdy Jewish kids lived at library. This is preinternet. They spend 20-30 hours a week in cliques at tables plotting and scheming with each other on homework and projects. Figuring how to get easier teachers. SAT tutors and college essay writers. Pretty much all 4 years HS was focused on application

My low GPA in HS and can level ater in life I met the Valedictorian of my college and one of highest GPA in my HS and both commented I was smarter than them. Mainly cause in college I worked 24 hours a week, took 18 credits, had a girl friend, was in a frat, I also really liked going out. I would go to bars and clubs several nights a week. I study on average zero per day. But during class or even break at work or parking lot do it.

So it is not really apples to apples. Me taking a single 100 percent cumulative final after missing 80 perc⁴ent of class and studying night before and getting a C is pretty amazing.

My most amazing student not me was a kid at Stonybrook with me. He left for two months to follow Dead on the road and came back week before finals and got a 4.0. He is now a doctor.

I think legalized cheating is still cheating.

Im all in favor of including IQ test(smartness)
We do that for AAP and also colleges in some other countries actually do that. I wonder who this would benefit 🤔

That would benefit those who enrich and prep as aspects of those tests can be prepared for, and students with enrichment do better on standardized tests across the board. My kids participate in an NIH study that uses IQ testing, and the head of the study confirmed that they don't measure intelligence.

Of course somebody you know confirmed it while it's used in numerous counties

Why countries use actual IQ testing? It does not scale. Those tests are done 1:1 for several hours, usually over a few days. I’d be curious what countries do this and who they are testing (just the rich kids?)

You can nitpick that NNAT/CogAt are not IQ test, but those are used to identify gifted/smart kids.

But those are also preppable. If you disagree, go to the AAP thread and look at all of the discussion on prepping for them.

You can prep a smart kid into doing somewhat better. You can’t prep an average or stupid kid into getting a gifted score. True also with PSAT and SAT.

(test prep tutor)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

That would be awesome as long as the Black student is descended on both sides from slaves and the other student is Native American on both sides. In both cases, they should also be first gen. No other 'race' deserves set asides. If low income is a criterion, it should be apply to everyone. Why is a low income White kid not deserving of a helping hand?

This post shows you have no clue as to why colleges seek racial balance in admissions. You think you know, but you do not, and you have never tried to learn.

I'm not aware of any college that says they seek racial balance in admissions. They say they consider race for purposes of diversity.
Racial quotas are illegal.

Yes, I know you are not aware. That was my point. You have not asked them why, you have done no research, you have read no books, but you think you do, and you are wrong. You have no idea WHY.

You perfectly affirmed my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I would love to see is 100 percent of whites and Asian students turn down their acceptance to Ivy League schools and Request low income black and Spanish get their spots.

That would be awesome as long as the Black student is descended on both sides from slaves and the other student is Native American on both sides. In both cases, they should also be first gen. No other 'race' deserves set asides. If low income is a criterion, it should be apply to everyone. Why is a low income White kid not deserving of a helping hand?

This post shows you have no clue as to why colleges seek racial balance in admissions. You think you know, but you do not, and you have never tried to learn.

I'm not aware of any college that says they seek racial balance in admissions. They say they consider race for purposes of diversity.
Racial quotas are illegal.

Yes, I know you are not aware. That was my point. You have not asked them why, you have done no research, you have read no books, but you think you do, and you are wrong. You have no idea WHY.

You perfectly affirmed my point.

I would not ask them why, as I don't think such a college exists for me to ask why.