Apple river tubing killing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anyone else get the vibe that the college kids actually stole the phone and that’s why they made such a massive deal over him continuing to search their area for it? And he knew they had it, hence why he didn’t leave?

Makes the most sense to me IMO. Because otherwise why were the college kids so fixated on him looking for his phone and screaming names at him, and why else was he so fixated on continuing to look right in that area despite the big group harassing him

Because he's insane. It wasn't even his phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anyone else get the vibe that the college kids actually stole the phone and that’s why they made such a massive deal over him continuing to search their area for it? And he knew they had it, hence why he didn’t leave?

Makes the most sense to me IMO. Because otherwise why were the college kids so fixated on him looking for his phone and screaming names at him, and why else was he so fixated on continuing to look right in that area despite the big group harassing him

It will be interesting to see if the claims that he was asking some in the group where he could meet girls/asking about meeting women is true. It will come up in court, and I want to know his answer under oath and to hear from the witnesses who said he said that under oath. Because even if he were deliberately doing that to intentionally rile them up and creep them out to get back at them for the alleged theft or concealment of his phone, it definitely points to HIM being the creep and the agitator and the one who escalated the situation.

But I have to say, I know plenty of older men like this: they assume they know the answer (you have my phone), they assume if they don’t get the answer they want to hear that someone is lying, they think they have the right to get into people’s personal space (especially women). And if he were deliberately acting like a creep and agitator to get back at what he perceived to be them lying, then yes, of course they would call him a creep. It will all come out at trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone else get the vibe that the college kids actually stole the phone and that’s why they made such a massive deal over him continuing to search their area for it? And he knew they had it, hence why he didn’t leave?

Makes the most sense to me IMO. Because otherwise why were the college kids so fixated on him looking for his phone and screaming names at him, and why else was he so fixated on continuing to look right in that area despite the big group harassing him

It will be interesting to see if the claims that he was asking some in the group where he could meet girls/asking about meeting women is true. It will come up in court, and I want to know his answer under oath and to hear from the witnesses who said he said that under oath. Because even if he were deliberately doing that to intentionally rile them up and creep them out to get back at them for the alleged theft or concealment of his phone, it definitely points to HIM being the creep and the agitator and the one who escalated the situation.

But I have to say, I know plenty of older men like this: they assume they know the answer (you have my phone), they assume if they don’t get the answer they want to hear that someone is lying, they think they have the right to get into people’s personal space (especially women). And if he were deliberately acting like a creep and agitator to get back at what he perceived to be them lying, then yes, of course they would call him a creep. It will all come out at trial.

I could absolutely see it going down this way. And then he got in over his head once the entire group started surrounding him, assaulting him, etc which of course he didn't anticipate as a older-middle aged while male surrounded by people he probably thought of as kids (even though they were, by and large, adults and likely all of whom were faster, stronger, etc than him). And then he pulled the knife and went off the deep end. So many dumb people in this situation. Why didn't he leave? Why didn't the other group leave? Why did they each feel so entitled to keep harassing the other person? I feel like our society is doomed. The only silver lining here is that no one seemed to have a gun on them, or there would be a lot more people dead.

[Anonymous]

So, different situation entirely but similar in the way that no one was willing to back down. A guy from my high school in northern virginia was, like 15 years ago, walking down the street in Philly at like 1am after going to some bars when he was 22 or 23. He ended up in an altercation with a group of other young men who were also leaving the bars. Unclear how it started, I think the other group was swinging from a piece of scaffolding and the guy from my high school (his name was Gerald Ung, you can look up this case) bumped into them initially, by mistake? Anyways it was the same sort of thing where Gerald did try to walk away a few times, the bigger group kept following him, and then finally Gerald stopped walking away and brandished a gun at them, and then one of the other group ran up to him to attack him and Gerald shot him. (The guy survived but was very seriously hurt).

There was a trial, and Gerald was found not guilty based on his self defense claim, even though he was the only one who had a weapon and he brandished the weapon at the group. Because the other group was trying to escalate the situation/ follow him, and he only shot them once they ran at him (although of course they only ran at him because he brandished a gun, probably). But he was able to argue that he feared for his life and he had tried to retreat but was followed. And he got off.

I wonder if Mr miu will also be able to claim he tried to retreat and only came back because he kept being harassed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, different situation entirely but similar in the way that no one was willing to back down. A guy from my high school in northern virginia was, like 15 years ago, walking down the street in Philly at like 1am after going to some bars when he was 22 or 23. He ended up in an altercation with a group of other young men who were also leaving the bars. Unclear how it started, I think the other group was swinging from a piece of scaffolding and the guy from my high school (his name was Gerald Ung, you can look up this case) bumped into them initially, by mistake? Anyways it was the same sort of thing where Gerald did try to walk away a few times, the bigger group kept following him, and then finally Gerald stopped walking away and brandished a gun at them, and then one of the other group ran up to him to attack him and Gerald shot him. (The guy survived but was very seriously hurt).

There was a trial, and Gerald was found not guilty based on his self defense claim, even though he was the only one who had a weapon and he brandished the weapon at the group. Because the other group was trying to escalate the situation/ follow him, and he only shot them once they ran at him (although of course they only ran at him because he brandished a gun, probably). But he was able to argue that he feared for his life and he had tried to retreat but was followed. And he got off.

I wonder if Mr miu will also be able to claim he tried to retreat and only came back because he kept being harassed?

Miu left and briefly re-joined his group, right? So it’s not like he left and they ran after him. He left. He then came back. Not the same situation. (I’m sorry about your classmate’s situation, because he clearly tried to get away.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, different situation entirely but similar in the way that no one was willing to back down. A guy from my high school in northern virginia was, like 15 years ago, walking down the street in Philly at like 1am after going to some bars when he was 22 or 23. He ended up in an altercation with a group of other young men who were also leaving the bars. Unclear how it started, I think the other group was swinging from a piece of scaffolding and the guy from my high school (his name was Gerald Ung, you can look up this case) bumped into them initially, by mistake? Anyways it was the same sort of thing where Gerald did try to walk away a few times, the bigger group kept following him, and then finally Gerald stopped walking away and brandished a gun at them, and then one of the other group ran up to him to attack him and Gerald shot him. (The guy survived but was very seriously hurt).

There was a trial, and Gerald was found not guilty based on his self defense claim, even though he was the only one who had a weapon and he brandished the weapon at the group. Because the other group was trying to escalate the situation/ follow him, and he only shot them once they ran at him (although of course they only ran at him because he brandished a gun, probably). But he was able to argue that he feared for his life and he had tried to retreat but was followed. And he got off.

I wonder if Mr miu will also be able to claim he tried to retreat and only came back because he kept being harassed?

Miu left and briefly re-joined his group, right? So it’s not like he left and they ran after him. He left. He then came back. Not the same situation. (I’m sorry about your classmate’s situation, because he clearly tried to get away.)

Yeah, you're right, it's not the same, it just had enough echoes to remind me of it, because he was the only one with a weapon and he was the one who (almost) killed the person who was harassing him, but he did get off. There was a video of the whole thing from a security camera apparently that no doubt helped his case. So that reminded me of the videos of this too.

[Anonymous]

I'm really drawn to the fact that these older teens/ young 20-somethings were calling this guy a child molester, because they thought he was creeping on them. 20 year olds. Do 20 year olds really view themselves as children, and think that if an older guy is coming on to them, he is a "child molester"? Such a weird (and irrelevant, I know) take for them to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really drawn to the fact that these older teens/ young 20-somethings were calling this guy a child molester, because they thought he was creeping on them. 20 year olds. Do 20 year olds really view themselves as children, and think that if an older guy is coming on to them, he is a "child molester"? Such a weird (and irrelevant, I know) take for them to have.

At least one of the people involved was an underaged minor, the 17yo who was murdered. We’re talking about a large group of people; have the ages of each member of both groups been released? (Genuinely asking.) At any rate, when there is a huge age difference and someone won’t leave you alone and is in your space and snorkeling around under you and (allergy, we’ll see how this part plays out in court) is asking where to meet girls/young women? Yeah, you might get called a child molester if you are asking where to meet girls. I’m not saying he did that, I am saying that’s come up in the press, and we’ll see if he actually said that at trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really drawn to the fact that these older teens/ young 20-somethings were calling this guy a child molester, because they thought he was creeping on them. 20 year olds. Do 20 year olds really view themselves as children, and think that if an older guy is coming on to them, he is a "child molester"? Such a weird (and irrelevant, I know) take for them to have.

I highly doubt they called him a child molester. My suspicion is that they said he was creepy, told him to stop looking at young women, and he twisted it into them calling him child molester.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if anyone has posted this article....His wife was with him, so I don't think he was looking for underage girls.

https://www.startribune.com/charges-could-come-monday-in-fatal-stabbing-of-teen-while-tubing-on-apple-river/600194716/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if anyone has posted this article....His wife was with him, so I don't think he was looking for underage girls.

https://www.startribune.com/charges-could-come-monday-in-fatal-stabbing-of-teen-while-tubing-on-apple-river/600194716/

It is possible (and of course I don’t know, but it will come out in trial) that if they started calling him a child molester, he leaned into that and asked stuff like that to antagonize them. Which no matter how you slice it will look bad for him at trial. Because the prosecution will ask yes or no, did you ask them where to meet young girls; they won’t allow him to answer anything but yes or no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if anyone has posted this article....His wife was with him, so I don't think he was looking for underage girls.

https://www.startribune.com/charges-could-come-monday-in-fatal-stabbing-of-teen-while-tubing-on-apple-river/600194716/

I see the one young lady is doing well with her GoFundMe account. Is the picture shown there actually her or one of her friends? It’s not clear at all- she never mentions being hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm really drawn to the fact that these older teens/ young 20-somethings were calling this guy a child molester, because they thought he was creeping on them. 20 year olds. Do 20 year olds really view themselves as children, and think that if an older guy is coming on to them, he is a "child molester"? Such a weird (and irrelevant, I know) take for them to have.

Yes. The SIL of Matt Gaetz basically called him a child molester for coming onto her when she was 19. So weird that no one ever grows up these days. (Not protecting Matt Gaetz, just saying that coming onto a 19 year old is not coming onto a child.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, different situation entirely but similar in the way that no one was willing to back down. A guy from my high school in northern virginia was, like 15 years ago, walking down the street in Philly at like 1am after going to some bars when he was 22 or 23. He ended up in an altercation with a group of other young men who were also leaving the bars. Unclear how it started, I think the other group was swinging from a piece of scaffolding and the guy from my high school (his name was Gerald Ung, you can look up this case) bumped into them initially, by mistake? Anyways it was the same sort of thing where Gerald did try to walk away a few times, the bigger group kept following him, and then finally Gerald stopped walking away and brandished a gun at them, and then one of the other group ran up to him to attack him and Gerald shot him. (The guy survived but was very seriously hurt).

There was a trial, and Gerald was found not guilty based on his self defense claim, even though he was the only one who had a weapon and he brandished the weapon at the group. Because the other group was trying to escalate the situation/ follow him, and he only shot them once they ran at him (although of course they only ran at him because he brandished a gun, probably). But he was able to argue that he feared for his life and he had tried to retreat but was followed. And he got off.

I wonder if Mr miu will also be able to claim he tried to retreat and only came back because he kept being harassed?

Why in the world would anyone run at someone brandishing a gun? This really seems like natural selection at work, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, different situation entirely but similar in the way that no one was willing to back down. A guy from my high school in northern virginia was, like 15 years ago, walking down the street in Philly at like 1am after going to some bars when he was 22 or 23. He ended up in an altercation with a group of other young men who were also leaving the bars. Unclear how it started, I think the other group was swinging from a piece of scaffolding and the guy from my high school (his name was Gerald Ung, you can look up this case) bumped into them initially, by mistake? Anyways it was the same sort of thing where Gerald did try to walk away a few times, the bigger group kept following him, and then finally Gerald stopped walking away and brandished a gun at them, and then one of the other group ran up to him to attack him and Gerald shot him. (The guy survived but was very seriously hurt).

There was a trial, and Gerald was found not guilty based on his self defense claim, even though he was the only one who had a weapon and he brandished the weapon at the group. Because the other group was trying to escalate the situation/ follow him, and he only shot them once they ran at him (although of course they only ran at him because he brandished a gun, probably). But he was able to argue that he feared for his life and he had tried to retreat but was followed. And he got off.

I wonder if Mr miu will also be able to claim he tried to retreat and only came back because he kept being harassed?

Why in the world would anyone run at someone brandishing a gun? This really seems like natural selection at work, sorry.

Well, he thankfully didn’t die , but the shooter was found not guilty of all charges so the jury agreed with you. I only brought up the case because some similarities of an intoxicated mob deciding to mess with someone who bothered them and it ended with serious injury to a member of the larger group.