DD’s butt pinched in the pool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It wasn't appropriate, but neither is raising a child to get hysterical over every slight. Sometimes, better to save ones energy for more worthwhile endeavors than exacting justice on a 13 yr old who pinched a butt in a pool.

What is hysterical here? Somebody pinches your butt and you are angry or scared. Is that hysterical? Are you supposed to pretend it didn’t happen? Supposed to say “well sometimes boys do things like that”? What are you supposed to do so you aren’t considered “hysterical”? Is the only acceptable response to shake it off and ignore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dh would have confronted the boys immediately, regardless of what my dd wanted. I’m not sure how you handle this after the fact. Your dd will probably have some very strong and confusing feelings about the whole thing. She needs to learn that standing up for yourself is empowering and being passive gives the offender all the control. Now she will remember feeling embarrassment and helplessness. It’s far better to remember the way you exerted your own power.

Almost 30 years later, I still beat myself up for not stopping a teacher who used to give lots of us unwanted back rubs. One day he sat down next to me and put his hand on my thigh and left it there. I have long felt that I was complicit in allowing him to do this to other girls. I teach my dds that they don’t have to know the right way to handle a situation like this, because that’s what parents are for. I’ll know how to handle it.

Meant to add that your dd did the right thing by telling your dh. Your dh made the wrong call by agreeing to do nothing. I understand why he complied with her wishes, but this isn’t a “let it go” situation. Your dd needs to know that there are men out there who absolutely will not tolerate that kind of behavior, and Dad needs to be at the top of that list.

I agree with this post & the pp's previous post.

I'm sure she was embarrassed, however THESE punk-ass boys are the ones that she should feel least embarrassed seeing her dad school them, as she doesn't know them IRL and she'll NEVER see them again (as opposed to the same thing occurring with some kid from her class).

Yes, she didn't want him to say anything out of fear of embarrassment, and your husband may have told her in the moment he won't say anything to get her to tell him what happened (ie; "I'll tell you what happened, but you have to promise not to say anything") but he then should have explained to her that there are some moments in life that both she AND he will look back on with regret at not confronting the situation.

A similar thing happened to me at camp and I told my dad on family day, and I also made hom promise not to say anything... and he didnt.
However, I will always, always, ALWAYS have regret that I didn't say anything because:

1). I found out later that this counselor went on to do much worse to other girls that summer, which gave me a tremendous amount of guilt.

2) Yes, I know I was the one who made him promise not to say anything, but I didn't understand atc the moment how it would/could affect me later on, that he didn't stick up for me in that moment. So, after that, I just never truly had the same level of respect for my father, as I did before that... which wasn't fair to him.

He was Superman status before that incident, and then after, I just found him to be kryptonite effected. My biggest thing was WHY did he listen to a child and not make the decision he knew was right as an adult?
That was the first time I ever questioned one of my parents judgement, but it wasn't until much later that I realized that he thought abiding by my wishes WAS protecting me.

After I told him all of this, he told me that if it were to ever happen again, instead of allowing ME, the tween, to make such a big decision based on perceived embarrassment, we would talk the specific incident through in that moment, and he would do what he felt was correct, as he wanted to make sure he empowered me from that moment forward.
I gained all of that lost respect right back for him in that moment.

Please talk to your husband -- HE'S the adult, who shouldn't have left a decisions such as this in the hands of a child (a child that doesn't realize how weak this decision may make her feel for decades to come).

He could have waited for her to leave the area to make a comment, this way he still stands up for her, but she didn't have to face the embarrassment.

She would have appreciated him telling her later that he actually DID say something, she just didn't see him, because I promise you that she's going to regret not allowing him to tell them off... maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but she will soon and that regret could last a lifetime (as we're both sadly aware of).

Tell your husband that he can explain to her that this was a brazen act to do in front of so many parents, which means those f@ckers weren't too fearful of getting in trouble & by not allowing him to react, it will only make these boys bolder & more confident in doing that AND going farther to other little girls.

Boys like this rely on girls being fearful to react, being in stunned silence, or frozen like a deer in headlights, which is why they weren't afraid of getting into trouble.

You can explain the regret that you STILL have all of these years later -- she wouldn't want this happening to other girls her age (or even younger!) and if someone doesn't say something to them, they' will definitely keep doing it and hurting/scaring other young girls.

* sorry for any typos my battery is dying!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

That's...a lot of words.

I stopped reading after the first sentence. Have you ever been falsely accused of something? Because I have. Not sexual assault, but something else. It is a HORRIBLE thing (to be falsely accused) and the fact that you just dismiss it so lightly shows me there is no point to reading anything else you write, it's worthless garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

Golly, with mind-reading skills like these you should be so rich that you don’t have time for DCUM!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is (if they know who it is) is they'll unintentionally dart their eyes directly towards the guilty party without even realizing they're doing it (now multiply that same reaction by the 2 or 3 other innocent boys) and you'll most likely have your answer.

Sometimes they'll also intentionally dart their eyes towards the guilty party, in the hopes of someone picking up on it without having to rat on their friend in front of them.

2. There will most likely be a physiological reaction in the guilty party, and this occurs when the guilty party feels trapped, cornered or feels they've been detected by your questioning (questions that they do NOT want to answer).
This action reverts back to the cavemen, when people had to seek out actual escape routes in order to survive dangerous or perilous situations (such as facing a deadly animal or even human adversary).

I know it sounds strange to hear that we have instincts today derived from the cavemen, but this reaction is one that stems from millions of years of muscle memory throughout evolutionary history.

3. Be aware of their blinking.
When someone is having a relaxed conversation, they'll ordinarily blink approx 5 or 6 times a minute (or once every 10 - 12 seconds) however when someone is stressed out because they know they've been caught doing something wrong, they'll blink 5 or 6 times in rapid succession.

4.Count how long a person closes their eyes for when being questioned directly (one on one)

When someone closes their eyes for a long second or two, its usually an indication that they're lying or feel guilty.
This is a type of defense mechanism brought on by guilt & shame; and similar to the blinking, they're trying to avoid making direct eye contact with you, because they're lying to your face (people usually blink @ a speed of 100 - 400 milliseconds or 0.10 to 0.40 of a second).

5. Play close attention to the direction their eyes go towards.
* This is a little trickier to determine in strangers, as you'll need to know whether they are dominantly right handed or left handed.

When you ask a right-handed person a question in reference to something they've supposedly seen, if they look upwards and to the left, they're *truly* accessing their memory files of the incident, however, if they look upwards and to their right, they're accessing their imagination, and creating or inventing an answer for you.

6. Take note of the questions you're asking
If you ask about what someone has heard, their eyes will usually shift toward their left ear when recollecting a sound that they heard before, but if their eyes shift right, they're about to lie.

With kids, you won't need all but one or two of these techniques to figure out who has done what, because as I said, kids are not likely very skilled or proficient liars, even if they lie a lot to their parents (just because a kid "tries" to lie a lot, it doesn't make them good liars).

Lastly, there's a physiological reaction that most people don't know... keep an eye on their hands, because the stress of lying causes a chemical reaction to occur, which makes people's faces itch when they lie.

There are many, many other reactions that I can tell you (I didn't even want to write so many that I did... apologies for the length of this post!).
However, the pp before me NOT considering the innocent victims feelings in all of this (after they've just been assaulted, by either their child or their child's friend) is a pattern that we see quite often in parents of guilty children... and it really, reaallllly pisses me off.

Why do all this stuff when you can just check their cranium for the "predator ridge" running along the parietal suture. It's not my job to educate you, but really, google "phrenology".

[Anonymous]

I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

[Anonymous]

Wow there is a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking here for a pretty unusual situation. I am sure we will all be prepared for the next butt pinching though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow there is a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking here for a pretty unusual situation. I am sure we will all be prepared for the next butt pinching though.

Because it's not an "unusual situation." Remember having my butt pinched and smacked by teen boys and grown men when I was 11+

Was so hard it left bruises; one was the football coach at my private high school, slapping me randomly on my butt as I was heading to my class--I did nothing and told no one, because I knew no one cared or would stand up for me against an adult or coach. I was "my fault" I looked older, or led them on.

It sounds like OP's daughter has also learned it always best to keep quiet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

What other crimes has your dad committed? I'm so glad you got away from such a horrific person and are in a safe place now. The way you describe him, sounds like he should be locked up for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

What other crimes has your dad committed? I'm so glad you got away from such a horrific person and are in a safe place now. The way you describe him, sounds like he should be locked up for life.

Haha. People love my dad, he was citizen of the year in our town. But he was also a volunteer addiction counselor at the jail and did not tolerate bullshit from anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I can tell you that if I had told my dad that someone had done that, he would grabbed one of those kids and told them all that he was going to figure out which one of them did it and break their legs, and they would have believed him and been looking over their shoulders for days. They definitely would have thought twice before doing something dumb like that again. It's annoying that sometimes its the only way some guys learn that lesson, but on the other hand, if a scary adult man chews you out for being a jerk, it can really stick.

There is absolutely no reason to let any boy or man of any age get away with something like that. Scream at them, all of them. Shame them. Let the whole crowd feel bad--I don't care if some of them feel like its a "false accusation." Then the lesson is, pick better friends.

What other crimes has your dad committed? I'm so glad you got away from such a horrific person and are in a safe place now. The way you describe him, sounds like he should be locked up for life.

Haha. People love my dad, he was citizen of the year in our town. But he was also a volunteer addiction counselor at the jail and did not tolerate bullshit from anybody.

Reminds me of Tina Fey’s description of her dad

In the TV star’s 2011 memoir, “Bossypants,” she dedicated a chapter to her dad, “That’s Don Fey,” in which she extolled on the virtues of her father, who contributed to raising her as “an achievement-oriented, obedient, drug-free, virgin adult.” “My dad has visited me at work over the years, and I’ve noticed that powerful men react to him in a weird way. They ‘stand down.’ The first time [‘SNL’ executive producer] Lorne Michaels met my dad, he said afterward, ‘Your father is... impressive. They meet Don Fey and it rearranges something in their brain about me,” she wrote. "['30 Rock’ costar] Alec Baldwin took a long look at him and gave him a firm handshake. ‘This is your dad, huh?’ “What are they realizing? I wonder. That they’d better never mess with me, or Don Fey will yell at them? That I have high expectations for the men in my life because I have a strong father figure?. Only [‘SNL’ writer] Colin Quinn was direct about it. ‘Your father doesn’t [expletive] play games. You would never come home with a shamrock tattoo in that house.’ That’s Don Fey.”

That’s the dad you want if some creep pinches your butt in the pool. Don Fey would take care of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone off on those boys. F that! No way!

She did the right thing. I get why your H did nothing.

But as a 50 year old woman who has been sexually harassed since I was 12 I have learned to not let it go.

Without knowing who did it? There were several boys and according to OP's daughter there was only one pinch--which means you would be "gong off" on several innocent parties. If you "went off" on my kid who hadn't done anything wrong, I'd alert hotel security and hopefully they'd have you thrown out. You can't just go around screaming at random innocent strangers.

Of course you can...however, it's highly unlikely that your kids will ever experience a false accusation.

Throughout my careet, I've had to deal with apologist, enabling mothers like you, who become defensive of their baby's without ever knowing the facts, giving every excuse in the book as to why your child is innocent (usually reverting back to the good old fashioned victim-blaming).

However it is a truly rare day when their child gets falsely accused; because mothers like you usually raise children that there are valid grounds for accusations against.

Oh, and the majority of hotel chains are required to have cameras in the pool area, for insurance purposes -- so, you should be less worried about your sweet, sensitive & misunderstood little Larlo being falsely accused, and more worried about he and/or his friends predatory nature.

I've been an investigator for the past 16 years, and I've sadly become keenly aware of what a liar
or a predators instinctual body language looks like.

It seems as if these boys have barely reached puberty themselves -- so, right away we know that they're not practiced, seasoned liars or predators (they're usually not, but there's always a chance that they are).

A good example that comes to mind is Josh Duggar -- a large reason that he was able to proliferate so out of control and molest for as long as he did (with as many girls as he victimized) was because he has horrible, selfish, enabling, apologist parents, who constantly run defense & covering up for them.

So, chances are good that these boys aren't sitting at home and googling things like "how to beat a lie detector test", "how to avoid the appearance of guilt" or "how to avoid detection" during their free time between soccer practice and dinner, which makes determining which boy did it even easier (if there isn't video proof).

That being said, any parent on here should be able to detect which boy assaulted her with just a few simple questions.... varied facial expressions & affiliated reactions will indicate when someone is lying.

Some of these reactions are caused by nervousness, some are involuntary reactions caused by guilt & shame, some are chemical reactions that can't be hid and others are a blatant physical reaction.

Since these boys are just kids themselves, you won't need the entire checklist, just a few basics should do.

If there is no identifying footage from the hotel for you to review, you start by confronting the group as a whole, stating the facts as your daughter gave them (no yelling or freaking out ifc that can be helped, as a stern, authoritative demeanor is much effective).

There won't be any of this silly & insulting "if she even remembers" like the PP said in her previous post -- as these details are usually etched into a victim's mind after it occurs (and primarily after the first time it occurs).

Many victims of sexual assault atest that there are details that they'll never, ever forget, for as long as they live... for example, the smells (ie; the smell of his skin, his breath, his sweat, what he was wearing when they were assaulted, etc).

If the other 2 or 3 boy are NOT involved, they'll usually look one of two ways... they'll either look totally shocked and/or completely speechless at such an implausible accusation, sometimes they'll stammer from shock too.

If they ARE aware of who did it (but the guilty party is not themselves) is where kids being young and untrained in deception comes in handy for you, because they'll tell you the answer with just a few involuntarily reactions (or they' could potentially volunteer the info to you immediately, it all depends on either how scared/intimidated they are of you, or possibly their moral sensibilities kick in).

It's ALL in the eyes.

1. The most likely way to determine who the guilty party is . . .

[billion paragraphs deleted for sake of brevity]

Your billion paragraph dissertation is too much. WTF

[Anonymous]

The post so long, I got lost in paragraphs trying to respond. F it. I'm not even reading it either

[Anonymous]

Seriously. Some of you are EXTREMELY worked up about a butt pinch among teens screwing around at the pool.

For the entirety of human history up until about 5 years ago this would have been a huge nothing-burger. I suggest we go back.

Do you really want your daughter growing up to be so catastrophically damaged from something like this as appears to be the case for some of the PPs on this thread?