Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Fresh take. OP says nothing is under an hour for meals. Huge red flag to me that she lacks either executive functioning skills or is a perfectionist and can’t let things go. I used to work in big law and then after that I commuted everyday and got two under 5s home from daycare at 5:30/6. Dinner was on the table in 10-15 minutes because those kids were hungry (pasta, veggie chicken tenders, fruit; omelette sandwich and fruit and veg, (gasp) frozen pizza and cut up fruit and veggies). I actually eat different things than kids because I’m a vegetarian and my meals take 5 min or less (eg open faced sandwich with smashed avocado and tempeh bacon).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fresh take. OP says nothing is under an hour for meals. Huge red flag to me that she lacks either executive functioning skills or is a perfectionist and can’t let things go. I used to work in big law and then after that I commuted everyday and got two under 5s home from daycare at 5:30/6. Dinner was on the table in 10-15 minutes because those kids were hungry (pasta, veggie chicken tenders, fruit; omelette sandwich and fruit and veg, (gasp) frozen pizza and cut up fruit and veggies). I actually eat different things than kids because I’m a vegetarian and my meals take 5 min or less (eg open faced sandwich with smashed avocado and tempeh bacon).

I will go you one better. We had two kids while we were both in residency working 60-80+ hours/wk. I just packed dinner and took the kids to the playground to eat. Bonus: no clean-up!

[Anonymous]

Little time with the kids in this case seems to be part of the package for "The lifestyle" that people keep referencing OP wanting to preserve. It seems pretty straightforward. They have built themselves a lifestyle that is rich in many ways but the tradeoff is quality family time. I'm not sure that more money would even help. There are only 24 hours in the day and diminishing returns for outsourcing what remains.

This type of prestige is frankly kind of revolting. Talk about "first world problems"! What good reasons are there to keep it up if there are alternatives that result in less income but more happiness? Honestly, what is a good reason to work so hard that you need to outsource life in order to drive a fancy, not just reliable, car? I just can't get in the heads of ppl who choose this to be their "problem".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little time with the kids in this case seems to be part of the package for "The lifestyle" that people keep referencing OP wanting to preserve. It seems pretty straightforward. They have built themselves a lifestyle that is rich in many ways but the tradeoff is quality family time. I'm not sure that more money would even help. There are only 24 hours in the day and diminishing returns for outsourcing what remains.

This type of prestige is frankly kind of revolting. Talk about "first world problems"! What good reasons are there to keep it up if there are alternatives that result in less income but more happiness? Honestly, what is a good reason to work so hard that you need to outsource life in order to drive a fancy, not just reliable, car? I just can't get in the heads of ppl who choose this to be their "problem".

Exactly this. There is so many hours in a day. Either stay on the roller coaster or get off, but stop pretending spending more money will change anything.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Reread the last sentence of op’s post and then we will give you a chance to come back and correct your needlessly nasty post.

She said she needed her income to maintain the lifestyle she has. What's your problem with that? It's true.

No problem with it, but it is clear they can’t afford it and lifestyle is easy to change.

For instance, buy a cheaper house and keep cc and privates. Or use public school and keep house and cc.

Life’s full of trade offs and op has to make some or continue to be miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used to be this and I cut back. I ended up staying home and had a third child. DH earns a seven figure income and I’m a SAHM. We live in a nice house in mclean and our kids attend public school.

I was just missing my career today. Reading this post reminds me of how hard it was when I was working. I used to cry because I missed my baby’s bedtime most nights. Getting an hour with your baby in the morning just wasn’t enough. I actually did cut back and it still was hard. I remember having two drop offs and pick ups when my older child started elementary. I was always scrambling.

I used to have a full time nanny plus preschool. Then I had a housekeeper and cook. It was really hard to get a PT afternoon sitter/driver. I remember writing the description for care.com and I decided I wanted to be the one to take my kids to sports and activities, help kids with homework and feed them dinner. We would never have had our third child if I was still working.

I don’t think your dual long hours are sustainable. We do know families who have multiple nannies or a FT nanny even when kids are in elementary.

That's exactly what this boils down to, PP. I'm happy for you that you are in a better place. Working moms are in a rough spot. We've been fed the line that we must get out into the working world to prove our worth (and pay homage to the feminist leaders before us) but we also have been sold the line that we can have it all. The fact of the matter is that we absolutely cannot. OP, you cannot have it all so you must choose. You either outsource your household duties (and much of that mothering) or you give up your current career path. One of those will have to give. I'm not here to tell you which is more valuable, as that's for you to decide. But if you wish to continue with your hours and DH's schedule, you'll have to hire more help. And you'll need to balance your budget to do that. Figure out what line items are really worth it (good bye cars) and ante up for the extra domestic help.

I know we all read the Atlantic article a few years back about not having it all. I'm 40+, 3 kids and found it out the hard way in law. I now work for myself and am WAHM full time. It works for me but I won't have the upward income mobility as OP. I am raising my own kids, doing all the cooking/cleaning/sports events because that was the choice that I made. OP, figure out your choice and roll with it. Because we don't get it all in this life. And no, your DH doesn't either despite what PPs here may say.

Not true. Of course a hardworking parent in a high-powered career can "have it all" with a rich and fulfilling home life. How do we know? Because men have been doing it for generations. Wanting to "have it all" is not the problem. Partners who aren't on board are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fresh take. OP says nothing is under an hour for meals. Huge red flag to me that she lacks either executive functioning skills or is a perfectionist and can’t let things go. I used to work in big law and then after that I commuted everyday and got two under 5s home from daycare at 5:30/6. Dinner was on the table in 10-15 minutes because those kids were hungry (pasta, veggie chicken tenders, fruit; omelette sandwich and fruit and veg, (gasp) frozen pizza and cut up fruit and veggies). I actually eat different things than kids because I’m a vegetarian and my meals take 5 min or less (eg open faced sandwich with smashed avocado and tempeh bacon).

I agree with this. I can roll out dinner for the whole family in 20 minutes every single night, EASILY. Roast pre-cut vegetable, small pot of rice, pan seared protein. Done.

[Anonymous]

If you're both BigLaw partners, can't you afford to hire a daily housekeeper? You need an Alice from the Brady Bunch.

What you need is someone who comes to your house every day, cleans and tidys as needed, grocery shops, runs errands, keeps an eye on the kids after they come home from school, cooks dinner, cleans the kitchen before she leaves, then a meal for you warming in the oven. Rise and repeat every work day.

You'll also need to hire someone to drive your kids to activities after school.

[Anonymous]

I think when the youngest gets to be about 4 things will ease up a lot. And when they are both school age it will be infinitely easier. My 7 year old helps so much — folding laundry, tidying up, even cooking and cooking prep. Not to mention all the things he can do for himself.

OP you’re a few years away from your kids being able to pitch in as opposed to taking all the energy you’ve got at the end of the day. Also once you stop needing a FT nanny you’ll recoup some of those funds. Regardless of their situation many parents are very tired when the youngest is 2 — that’s when the marathon of juggling seems longest. But you’re close to the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fresh take. OP says nothing is under an hour for meals. Huge red flag to me that she lacks either executive functioning skills or is a perfectionist and can’t let things go. I used to work in big law and then after that I commuted everyday and got two under 5s home from daycare at 5:30/6. Dinner was on the table in 10-15 minutes because those kids were hungry (pasta, veggie chicken tenders, fruit; omelette sandwich and fruit and veg, (gasp) frozen pizza and cut up fruit and veggies). I actually eat different things than kids because I’m a vegetarian and my meals take 5 min or less (eg open faced sandwich with smashed avocado and tempeh bacon).

As a lawyer myself, I bet it's this. I have a tendency to do the same and want meals to be perfect but I've learned to save those meals for the days when I have time and find fast ways to get good food on the table the other times. It's not in my nature though, so I empathize with OP's situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used to be this and I cut back. I ended up staying home and had a third child. DH earns a seven figure income and I’m a SAHM. We live in a nice house in mclean and our kids attend public school.

I was just missing my career today. Reading this post reminds me of how hard it was when I was working. I used to cry because I missed my baby’s bedtime most nights. Getting an hour with your baby in the morning just wasn’t enough. I actually did cut back and it still was hard. I remember having two drop offs and pick ups when my older child started elementary. I was always scrambling.

I used to have a full time nanny plus preschool. Then I had a housekeeper and cook. It was really hard to get a PT afternoon sitter/driver. I remember writing the description for care.com and I decided I wanted to be the one to take my kids to sports and activities, help kids with homework and feed them dinner. We would never have had our third child if I was still working.

I don’t think your dual long hours are sustainable. We do know families who have multiple nannies or a FT nanny even when kids are in elementary.

That's exactly what this boils down to, PP. I'm happy for you that you are in a better place. Working moms are in a rough spot. We've been fed the line that we must get out into the working world to prove our worth (and pay homage to the feminist leaders before us) but we also have been sold the line that we can have it all. The fact of the matter is that we absolutely cannot. OP, you cannot have it all so you must choose. You either outsource your household duties (and much of that mothering) or you give up your current career path. One of those will have to give. I'm not here to tell you which is more valuable, as that's for you to decide. But if you wish to continue with your hours and DH's schedule, you'll have to hire more help. And you'll need to balance your budget to do that. Figure out what line items are really worth it (good bye cars) and ante up for the extra domestic help.

I know we all read the Atlantic article a few years back about not having it all. I'm 40+, 3 kids and found it out the hard way in law. I now work for myself and am WAHM full time. It works for me but I won't have the upward income mobility as OP. I am raising my own kids, doing all the cooking/cleaning/sports events because that was the choice that I made. OP, figure out your choice and roll with it. Because we don't get it all in this life. And no, your DH doesn't either despite what PPs here may say.

Not true. Of course a hardworking parent in a high-powered career can "have it all" with a rich and fulfilling home life. How do we know? Because men have been doing it for generations. Wanting to "have it all" is not the problem. Partners who aren't on board are.

that's just not true. We cannot have it all. The definition of "having it all" has been being able to spend quality time with the kids, parent as you see fit, attain the career goals that you want and make the salary that you desire. Men have outsourced the first half of that for centuries and have not parented. They outsourced all home/parenting duties to SAHMs. If working moms want to outsource parenting to SAHDs they can absolutely do that, but they are not "having it all". That is the conundrum. Do you want the work life or the parenting life? Pick one and outsource or limit the other.

[Anonymous]

This post stresses me out. You're on 9-5:30 then back on again at 8?? Do you hear yourself OP? That's not a flexible job--that's a job that is taking over your life. I understand the desire to work a demanding job, rise the ladder in your career, etc., but there's more to life than work, work, work and I think what you're finding is that it's getting harder for you to fit those other things in with the two big promotions you and your husband just received. One of you is going to need to dial back. Even if you hire more "help," you're not giving even yourself any time back and you need to take care of yourself in order to take care of others. Are there firms out there that can offer you more flexibility or equally stimulating work without the long hours? I agree with other posters who recommend maybe taking some time to reflect on what you really need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Reread the last sentence of op’s post and then we will give you a chance to come back and correct your needlessly nasty post.

She said she needed her income to maintain the lifestyle she has. What's your problem with that? It's true.

No problem with it, but it is clear they can’t afford it and lifestyle is easy to change.

For instance, buy a cheaper house and keep cc and privates. Or use public school and keep house and cc.

Life’s full of trade offs and op has to make some or continue to be miserable.

Actually it sounds like they can afford it. OP didn't come on here crying about not being able to afford private school. They can afford all the things they have.

I agree with you that life is full of trade offs. My husband and I made the decision to leave DC and make half what we used to for a different kind of life and we we're happier here than we were there. But I don't think saying lifestyle changes are easy is true. I think it's easy for people who have done it and are happy or people who are living the life OP could live and are happy. But I understand how OP thinks it's not quite so easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post stresses me out. You're on 9-5:30 then back on again at 8?? Do you hear yourself OP? That's not a flexible job--that's a job that is taking over your life. I understand the desire to work a demanding job, rise the ladder in your career, etc., but there's more to life than work, work, work and I think what you're finding is that it's getting harder for you to fit those other things in with the two big promotions you and your husband just received. One of you is going to need to dial back. Even if you hire more "help," you're not giving even yourself any time back and you need to take care of yourself in order to take care of others. Are there firms out there that can offer you more flexibility or equally stimulating work without the long hours? I agree with other posters who recommend maybe taking some time to reflect on what you really need.

Personally think op is just trolling to stoke the mommy wars. The finances really don’t add up, amd there is no “big promotion” for a lawyer short of partner that would result in more hours.

[Anonymous]

You could probably hire a full time housekeeper for 45-50k. Keep the nanny. What do you pay her, 45-50k?

Employee expenses are still under 100k.

How is this not doable for two BigLaw partners?