Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used to be this and I cut back. I ended up staying home and had a third child. DH earns a seven figure income and I’m a SAHM. We live in a nice house in mclean and our kids attend public school.

I was just missing my career today. Reading this post reminds me of how hard it was when I was working. I used to cry because I missed my baby’s bedtime most nights. Getting an hour with your baby in the morning just wasn’t enough. I actually did cut back and it still was hard. I remember having two drop offs and pick ups when my older child started elementary. I was always scrambling.

I used to have a full time nanny plus preschool. Then I had a housekeeper and cook. It was really hard to get a PT afternoon sitter/driver. I remember writing the description for care.com and I decided I wanted to be the one to take my kids to sports and activities, help kids with homework and feed them dinner. We would never have had our third child if I was still working.

I don’t think your dual long hours are sustainable. We do know families who have multiple nannies or a FT nanny even when kids are in elementary.

That's exactly what this boils down to, PP. I'm happy for you that you are in a better place. Working moms are in a rough spot. We've been fed the line that we must get out into the working world to prove our worth (and pay homage to the feminist leaders before us) but we also have been sold the line that we can have it all. The fact of the matter is that we absolutely cannot. OP, you cannot have it all so you must choose. You either outsource your household duties (and much of that mothering) or you give up your current career path. One of those will have to give. I'm not here to tell you which is more valuable, as that's for you to decide. But if you wish to continue with your hours and DH's schedule, you'll have to hire more help. And you'll need to balance your budget to do that. Figure out what line items are really worth it (good bye cars) and ante up for the extra domestic help.

I know we all read the Atlantic article a few years back about not having it all. I'm 40+, 3 kids and found it out the hard way in law. I now work for myself and am WAHM full time. It works for me but I won't have the upward income mobility as OP. I am raising my own kids, doing all the cooking/cleaning/sports events because that was the choice that I made. OP, figure out your choice and roll with it. Because we don't get it all in this life. And no, your DH doesn't either despite what PPs here may say.

slightly different take: women can have big jobs and kids. they just need a spouse who does the SAH/flexible job thing. That’s slowly becoming more common. I have several friends from law school in this arrangement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for your kids, but enjoy your fancy house and cars.

Why? Do you work? Did you actually read her posts? She doesn't spend any less time with her kids than someone who works 9-5. Or are you against women working at all? OP's problem is that she has no time for herself, not her kids.

No that is not op’s problem. Her problem is that neither she nor her dh are willing to take a lower paying job that would allow them to work fewer hours, although they objectively can afford to.

But that's not the point pp or you made...why do you feel bad for OP's kids?

because they put money and professional success above family, hobbies, household, and every other possible use of time.

What is so great about parents having hobbies? My dad had a Norma 9-5 and big, time-consuming hobby (competitive athlete). Every weekend was about dad’s sport and travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for your kids, but enjoy your fancy house and cars.

Why? Do you work? Did you actually read her posts? She doesn't spend any less time with her kids than someone who works 9-5. Or are you against women working at all? OP's problem is that she has no time for herself, not her kids.

No that is not op’s problem. Her problem is that neither she nor her dh are willing to take a lower paying job that would allow them to work fewer hours, although they objectively can afford to.

But that's not the point pp or you made...why do you feel bad for OP's kids?

because they put money and professional success above family, hobbies, household, and every other possible use of time.

What is so great about parents having hobbies? My dad had a Norma 9-5 and big, time-consuming hobby (competitive athlete). Every weekend was about dad’s sport and travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We used to be this and I cut back. I ended up staying home and had a third child. DH earns a seven figure income and I’m a SAHM. We live in a nice house in mclean and our kids attend public school.

I was just missing my career today. Reading this post reminds me of how hard it was when I was working. I used to cry because I missed my baby’s bedtime most nights. Getting an hour with your baby in the morning just wasn’t enough. I actually did cut back and it still was hard. I remember having two drop offs and pick ups when my older child started elementary. I was always scrambling.

I used to have a full time nanny plus preschool. Then I had a housekeeper and cook. It was really hard to get a PT afternoon sitter/driver. I remember writing the description for care.com and I decided I wanted to be the one to take my kids to sports and activities, help kids with homework and feed them dinner. We would never have had our third child if I was still working.

I don’t think your dual long hours are sustainable. We do know families who have multiple nannies or a FT nanny even when kids are in elementary.

That's exactly what this boils down to, PP. I'm happy for you that you are in a better place. Working moms are in a rough spot. We've been fed the line that we must get out into the working world to prove our worth (and pay homage to the feminist leaders before us) but we also have been sold the line that we can have it all. The fact of the matter is that we absolutely cannot. OP, you cannot have it all so you must choose. You either outsource your household duties (and much of that mothering) or you give up your current career path. One of those will have to give. I'm not here to tell you which is more valuable, as that's for you to decide. But if you wish to continue with your hours and DH's schedule, you'll have to hire more help. And you'll need to balance your budget to do that. Figure out what line items are really worth it (good bye cars) and ante up for the extra domestic help.

I know we all read the Atlantic article a few years back about not having it all. I'm 40+, 3 kids and found it out the hard way in law. I now work for myself and am WAHM full time. It works for me but I won't have the upward income mobility as OP. I am raising my own kids, doing all the cooking/cleaning/sports events because that was the choice that I made. OP, figure out your choice and roll with it. Because we don't get it all in this life. And no, your DH doesn't either despite what PPs here may say.

slightly different take: women can have big jobs and kids. they just need a spouse who does the SAH/flexible job thing. That’s slowly becoming more common. I have several friends from law school in this arrangement.

Totally agree with this. I would say this is the norm with both the women big law partners I know as well as woman surgeons. Most of the responses have noted one or the other of them, or both of them, should work less, not necessarily op alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

You are likely a troll but if not, this martyr complex is not compelling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Reread the last sentence of op’s post and then we will give you a chance to come back and correct your needlessly nasty post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Reread the last sentence of op’s post and then we will give you a chance to come back and correct your needlessly nasty post.

DP: I don't really read OP as "playing the victim" either. I read the last sentence of her post. It sounds like she is making it clear that she doesn't want advice to quit her job, but is looking for advice on how to make it all work.
What do you even see her as the "victim" of?

[Anonymous]

She needs her income to pay for private school tuition, a nice house and nice cars. That is what I read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

OP you are effing ridiculous. You make $750k/year and “it doesn’t go as far as it should”?! Wtf. You are LOADED and completely out of touch. I can’t even.

It sounds like you don't live a life similar to OP's. That's ok, but you don't have to act like it's completely unreasonable that OP's expenses are what they are. $750K/year is about $375K/year take home. Being in that tax bracket means you get hit with the highest rates and don't have the benefits of the truly rich (i.e. people living off interest or dividends), since it's all salary.

Nanny is probably $75K given that she's working 45 hours per week, which means 5 hours of overtime, which is 1.5 times normal rates. $25/hour times 40 hours/week is $52K. $37.50/hour (overtime) times 5 hours/week is $9,750, which is $61,750. Then you have to add in the employer's share of Medicare and SS on to that, plus bonus, gifts, etc.

Private school tuition for two is $125K, which would be $55K per kid plus donations, teacher's gifts, etc.

Mortgage is probably at least $75K a year.

So now we're at $275K/year on $375K take home salary. It's not a stretch to assume that 401k contributions plus 529 contributions take up another maybe $75K, plus two car payments totaling $20K a year, and you've practically eaten up the salary. Never mind clothes, country club memberships, sports, vacations, etc.

I'm not saying that's the way anyone should want to live, or even that it makes good financial sense, but it's not completely ludicrous to imagine the lifestyle OP is leading.

“never mind the country club fees”

I mean, you can roll your eyes all you want. I didn't say any of those expenses were necessary, I was just saying it's not that hard to imagine where OP's money is going. I get that you may not have a country club membership, and that's fine, but there are LOTS of people who do, and guess what? They cost money.

so you think we should empathize with OP because she has to work 60 hrs/week to pay for country club fees and is feeling stressed?

I never said you had to empathize with OP. Seriously, can you people read? All I was commenting on was where OP's money went. People were acting like salaries of $750K meant $650K of extra money and I was trying to explain where the money went. I never said anyone needed to empathize with OP. I wouldn't want her life, and in fact I did leave my BigLaw job for one where I make less money but I see my kids and enjoy my life more. But I can't not fathom where the money is going, which was my sole point. I'm sorry you can't understand it.

omg. are you really that dumb? the luxury car, the tuition, the giant mortgage, the COUNTRY CLUB, are the extra money. OP has extra money. She’s swimming in extra money. She chooses to waste it all, but she’s got it.

I don't know why you have your panties in such a twist about someone who chooses to live their life differently than you. OP never came on here crying about being poor. She asked people for tips on how to make her life easier and then came back to explain some additional things that people had been asking about, namely, how much money they make.

You say she has extra money because you're saying that YOU choose to live your life on $100K/year. That's fine, it's great if you have set your life up the way you want it to be - that should be everyone's goal. OP is saying her money doesn't go as far as you might think, which makes sense given all the things she has CHOSEN to pay for.

Of course she could get rid of her 2020 cars and get some solid used ones. Of course she could downsize her house. Of course she could send her kids to public school. Of course she could use the local pool instead of having a country club membership. OP never said she HAD to pay for all those things, and she wasn't asking for financial advice from anyone either. She was asking for some help about how families with two parents who both work long hours managed certain things.

And instead of being helpful, which DCUM rarely is in a situation like this, people just jumped all over OP and imposed THEIR VALUES and spoke about THEIR CHOICES and told OP that the choices she had made were wrong. I bet if OP had come on here and said that she and her husband both worked long hours in jobs that DCUM deemed valuable, and explained that they made $100K/year because they both chose worthwhile jobs over money and prestige, people would have been sharing schedules and recipes and other helpful tips.

But instead, since DCUM is filled with hypocrites who act like judging people is wrong while openly judging certain kinds of people, they just came on here to say that OP and her husband don't spend enough time with their kids, that she should quit her job, and that having a country club membership is gross. I'm not surprised, since this is exactly what DCUM always brings, but it's just exhausting. Why can't you just be nice for a minute instead of imposing your own judgments on people? If you don't have an answer to OP's question, then move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lot of jealous biddies in this thread.

DCUM absolutely hates mom that stay in private practice. Hates.

I don’t hate them, at all. I think two parents in BigLaw is neglect, though. No issue with a SAHD situation.

Thank you for proving my point while pretending to be a feminist. As I said. They hate us.

I mean, OP is the one playing the victim. If you want to lead that lifestyle then don’t come complaining about your stress and how you don’t have any money. There’s nothing feminist about making yourself miserable.

At no point did OP "play the victim". She asked for ideas about how to lighten the load. It's obvious why you're not the kind of person who makes $$$, you can't read.

Reread the last sentence of op’s post and then we will give you a chance to come back and correct your needlessly nasty post.

She said she needed her income to maintain the lifestyle she has. What's your problem with that? It's true.