Catholic mom wants us to essentially say grace as part of our Jewish kid’s education ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do have to say, OP, that I think it’s really weird that you’re making this an issue. Allow your mother to say grace when she’s there for meals, and tell her that when she’s not there you don’t say grace because it’s not your religion. It’s a simple as that. What is the problem? My suspicion is that you don’t want her to say it even when she is there, and that’s just really uncool of you. But truly religious person, as you purport yourself to be, respects and allows the free exercise of someone else’s religion. Especially if it’s your mother.

I have zero problem with her saying it. I don’t appreciate you making that assumption. My issue is she keeps pushing us to say it even when she’s not there.

This is really the dumbest thread ever. It's simple, OP. Say "no, we won't be doing that." DONE. If you can't stand up to your mom on this one tiny thing that she's not even going to be there for, then I see a lot of problems in your future. You might consider counseling if you can't say no to this request.

Yeah, I feel like OP is looking for an effective and painless way of dealing with this, but the only way to deal with it is to continue to to state her boundaries. Eventually the mother will have to accept it, but it likely won’t be a quick or non-contentious process.

OP here. Yeah I know it won’t be simple. I know some are saying it’s simple, but in this case it’s not as easy as it seems. I will keep trying, of course, but it won’t be easy.

Please explain to us why it is difficult to NOT do something in your own home when the person requesting it is NOT there?

The issue is getting her to shut up about it.

Well, you definitely are her daughter. You cannot shut up about getting your mother to shut up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do have to say, OP, that I think it’s really weird that you’re making this an issue. Allow your mother to say grace when she’s there for meals, and tell her that when she’s not there you don’t say grace because it’s not your religion. It’s a simple as that. What is the problem? My suspicion is that you don’t want her to say it even when she is there, and that’s just really uncool of you. But truly religious person, as you purport yourself to be, respects and allows the free exercise of someone else’s religion. Especially if it’s your mother.

I have zero problem with her saying it. I don’t appreciate you making that assumption. My issue is she keeps pushing us to say it even when she’s not there.

This is really the dumbest thread ever. It's simple, OP. Say "no, we won't be doing that." DONE. If you can't stand up to your mom on this one tiny thing that she's not even going to be there for, then I see a lot of problems in your future. You might consider counseling if you can't say no to this request.

Yeah, I feel like OP is looking for an effective and painless way of dealing with this, but the only way to deal with it is to continue to to state her boundaries. Eventually the mother will have to accept it, but it likely won’t be a quick or non-contentious process.

OP here. Yeah I know it won’t be simple. I know some are saying it’s simple, but in this case it’s not as easy as it seems. I will keep trying, of course, but it won’t be easy.

Please explain to us why it is difficult to NOT do something in your own home when the person requesting it is NOT there?

The issue is getting her to shut up about it.

Well, you definitely are her daughter. You cannot shut up about getting your mother to shut up

I’m replying to all of you. You somehow can’t stop posting — ask yourself why that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

[Anonymous]

After reading all this for days my final advice is: Grow up, OP. Your child needs an adult raising her. You clearly want magic spell to make mom stop asking, but magic isnt real, Sweetie (yes, I’m addressing you as a child now). You’ve been solid advice on how to approach and confront this problem. No one can do this for you. If you cannot do this, don’t come back here later complaining how your child acts immaturely as she ages. You are setting a bad example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you say a ha’motzi before meals? Do you ever do a birkat hamazon?

Yeah but those are specific prayers for concrete food items. We have a specific way of praying for the sick and poor and it isn’t over food. DH says it’s actually somewhat blasphemous to relegate those things to mealtime or to say even food blessings in some sort of approximate English language way.

She says we need to say grace in an English way that DD can understand. If anything, we’d say a ha’amotzi, but that’s not what she keeps asking for. In fact, Jewish before meal prayers are usually said in silent except for Shabbat or holidays, which certainly doesn’t comport with her vision.

1. Not sure if this has been said (im not reading this whole thread) but while you only say Birkat after a meal that includes bread, you are supposed to say the shorter borei nefashot after almost any food (though lots of people don't)

2. There is a prayer before for any food other than water (the catch all is shehakol neheyeh bdvaro

3. I don't think there is any law against saying them aloud - or even saying them in English

4. One can talk about the poor or sick without implying its part of the Hebrew blessing, I guess - I know people often do that at Pesach seders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script?

I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

The general time and place where traditional Jews do that is at the end of a particular silent prayer (the Amidah) which is said 3 times a day (four times on Shabbat and most Jewish holidays). So there is plenty of opportunity for that. It is not customarily done before meals though.

Personally I think when OPs mom asks for this stuff, OP should give her a long discourse on Jewish law (more detailed than I have given) complete with references to Talmud and later authorities. Bonus points if OP can manage to cite contradictory rabbinic opinions.


I suspect that might be effective

[Anonymous]

Last posters are just going over old ground. Bottom line is OP cannot face the fact that she’s an adult. She has gotten good advice, but cannot execute. Her child deserves a better role model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever asked her why this is so important to her or have you just worked yourself into knots with incomplete information? Knowing her intent will help you respond appropriately. It feels as if you are just arguing with your mom like a 15 year old girl.

Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?

It’s already been established that it’s not Jewish. Please accept it.

Just trying to learn. Many of the people I know (Muslim, Christian, Buddhist) do things that aren't officially sanctioned by the rules of their faith, I didn't know if Judaism was more specifically prescriptive. Or are we not allowed to ask questions?

Your comment was fairly judgmental. Please consider your tone next time.

Dude, You read a tone that wasn’t there. Not every question is an attack or an insult. I’m pretty sure that you would read anything that wasn’t wholly supportive of the OP as negative in tone. That’s on you.

"Are Jews never allowed to just address God directly? You can't ever go off script? I don't think there's a God who wouldn't be down with "thanks for this food and help out some people who need it" isn't that the core of all religions - Appreciation and kindness?"

NP. I can't quite read this in a tone that isn't a bit judgmental. "Why can't you JUST do this?" You should be aware that intent does not equal outcome. At least two people here saw your post as judgmental and dismissive of Jewish culture. Don't hide under the guise of "just trying to learn". If you are Christian, why don't you JUST consider that maybe Jesus isn't the son of God. See how easy that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last posters are just going over old ground. Bottom line is OP cannot face the fact that she’s an adult. She has gotten good advice, but cannot execute. Her child deserves a better role model.

OP here. It’s been 2 days since I posted this. In that time, you’ve come to the conclusion that I can’t be an adult? You haven’t ever had a difficult time dealing with a parent?

You are honestly a mean person. I mean that with zero disrespect. I hope you can learn to be a little kinder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last posters are just going over old ground. Bottom line is OP cannot face the fact that she’s an adult. She has gotten good advice, but cannot execute. Her child deserves a better role model.

I don't like to discuss interpersonal issues. I prefer to discuss halacha. #notneurotypicalbutOK

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admittedly, I haven’t read the entire thread, but I don’t understand the part about praying for the sick or other individual people during grace. That is not a Catholic thing or even a generally Christian thing. Grace before meals is simply supposed to be a prayer of thanks for the food given, not a time to offer up prayers for for general petitions.

Mom is having a spiritual crisis and inflicting it on those around her. Doesn't sound like mom is doing the work she needs to do to figure out where she belongs, though.

+1 I was raised Catholic and said a traditional Catholic grace. I'm now Methodist and when my kids attended a Methodist preschool they learned a different grace and we switched to saying that. Neither one has anything to do with praying for specific people. It's a ritual of thankfulness not a free-form praying for everything (that's more of a bedtime prayers think in my experience). Certainly, some Christians do that at mealtimes but there not one way it HAS to be done.

Regardless, Grandma is out of line. The fact that she keeps pushing it makes me think OP hasn't given her a firm and repeated "no." She needs to stop engaging on it in anyway, the answer is "no", period.

I have given her many firm replies. She is an exceptionally pushy person. I will keep trying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last posters are just going over old ground. Bottom line is OP cannot face the fact that she’s an adult. She has gotten good advice, but cannot execute. Her child deserves a better role model.

OP here. It’s been 2 days since I posted this. In that time, you’ve come to the conclusion that I can’t be an adult? You haven’t ever had a difficult time dealing with a parent?

You are honestly a mean person. I mean that with zero disrespect. I hope you can learn to be a little kinder.

OP I suggest you tell grandma that you are going to say the appropriate hebrew blessing for the kind of food being served. Explain that if its fruit it will be borei Pri ha etz, and if its vegetables it will borei pri ha adamah. Then explain to her why a banana is actually a vegetable. Try to use as much Aramaic as you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last posters are just going over old ground. Bottom line is OP cannot face the fact that she’s an adult. She has gotten good advice, but cannot execute. Her child deserves a better role model.

OP here. It’s been 2 days since I posted this. In that time, you’ve come to the conclusion that I can’t be an adult? You haven’t ever had a difficult time dealing with a parent?

You are honestly a mean person. I mean that with zero disrespect. I hope you can learn to be a little kinder.

OP I suggest you tell grandma that you are going to say the appropriate hebrew blessing for the kind of food being served. Explain that if its fruit it will be borei Pri ha etz, and if its vegetables it will borei pri ha adamah. Then explain to her why a banana is actually a vegetable. Try to use as much Aramaic as you can.

I love it!