Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never said it was buying friends. I said there is a difference between clubs that you just join and organizations where the current members vote on whether you will be permitted to join.

Do you agree?

DP. Sure. But so what? Doesn't make it a bad thing necessarily.

But you agree that’s a big difference. Others apparently don’t see that difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the participation trophy generation. Parents of today's college kids are terrified that their kid won't get the trophy, so they discourage their kids from even participating.

What are you going on about? The majority of posters here are either all for their kids rushing or are fine either way. Doesn’t sound discouraging to me.

Oh please. We're on page 14 of an active thread. It wouldn't be this long if it were half saying "go Greek!" and the other half responding "whatever." There's post after post going negative.

And post after post going positive. The positives and the I don’t cares outweigh the negatives. So your theory that everyone discourages their kids just in case they fail is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Loved being in a sorority in college. Tons of activities and events, always people around to do things with. Met a lot of amazing and interesting women. Enjoyed the Greek social life, but also had lots of friends that weren’t part of it. Great experience. All my kids went Greek in college as well and enjoyed it. We neither encouraged it nor paid for it - just left it up to them to decide if it was something they wanted to do and whether it was worth spending their own money on dues.

[Anonymous]

This is a great discussion! Our child attends a very heavy Greek life NE liberal arts college, but decided not to pursue that option ultimately. We probed why not, and they said it basically wasn’t for them, but it wasn’t interrupting their social life or overall happiness in any way (to our knowledge), which obviously made us feel better as parents, I think. Anyway, they still volunteer and regularly attend Greek parties, and they’re studying abroad too, but feel their own autonomy simultaneously, which makes us (as parents) feel good. Bottom line is this: Parents can’t meddle forever and have to let these people truly launch.
I hope this perspective is helpful!!!

[Anonymous]

Greek life dropped 50% between 2020-2023 and continues to decline. It’s a vestige of the past.

1. Changing attitudes - students rejecting groups that seek to divide rather than unite, rejecting racist exclusionary practices, and overall less interested in the extreme drunkenness, date rape, and predatory hazing that previous generations reveled in.

2. College cost. If you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, engaging in something that could get you kicked out, or perform poorly academically if not flying with parents anymore.

3. Competitiveness of admissions. The Greek life always attracted the good but not stellar or lower achieving students. Those kids aren’t getting in anymore. Kids with an eye toward graduate medical, law school or even business school can’t afford to waste time or risk their GPA in these activities. Gone are the days of the 2.5 or 3.0 frat guy getting into a good law or MBA program.

4. Increased regulation and oversight. The string of deaths along WTH everything being captured on phone cameras is too big a liability for schools to ignore.

5. Demographic changes. Asians, Latinos ,and international students now make a sizable portion of many groups. These groups along with FGLI students have little interest and would be excluded anyway from Greek life. As Greek life is primarily a white culture thing as white enrollment drops so does Greek enrollment. If it’s no longer something that all the students want to get into, it loses its desirability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

I do agree with the not wanting to pay for friends. When I att need college rush was fall literally during new student week before clssses had begun. Kids had 2 days on campus then bam! Rush started. So no chance for people to make their own friends and those that had started ended up going different ways because they ended up in different sororities

Someone explain “paying for friends”. The phrase is thrown around all the time and makes little sense.

Is joining any organization where you pay dues (a pool club, a running club, a rec softball team, etc.) and receive a product in return “paying for friends”?

My kid saves money with their fraternity fees compared to the other room & board options…how is that “paying for friends”?

DP. Do the pool club, running club, and rec softball team decide whether or not they will allow you to join based on ambiguous reasons, or is anyone allowed as long as they pay the fee?

There's a huge difference. For starters, the rec softball team doesn't all live together. There are only so many rooms in a frat or sorority house, so only so many can fit.

Nice try, though.

You know there is a limited amount of space on a softball team, right?

[Anonymous]

I posted the previous last past (the second to last one - lol). Just to be clear, we’re gay parents and we’re not opposed to Greek life (perhaps shocking), but our child CHOSE not to pursue that option for their OWN reasons (are we happy about that? well, maybe, it depends.) It’s complicated, right, like life? If you equip your kid for any eventuality, then you should be good. Pocket book excluded, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the participation trophy generation. Parents of today's college kids are terrified that their kid won't get the trophy, so they discourage their kids from even participating.

What are you going on about? The majority of posters here are either all for their kids rushing or are fine either way. Doesn’t sound discouraging to me.

Oh please. We're on page 14 of an active thread. It wouldn't be this long if it were half saying "go Greek!" and the other half responding "whatever." There's post after post going negative.

And post after post going positive. The positives and the I don’t cares outweigh the negatives. So your theory that everyone discourages their kids just in case they fail is wrong.

Not a lot of neutrals. You're wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Greek life dropped 50% between 2020-2023 and continues to decline. It’s a vestige of the past.

1. Changing attitudes - students rejecting groups that seek to divide rather than unite, rejecting racist exclusionary practices, and overall less interested in the extreme drunkenness, date rape, and predatory hazing that previous generations reveled in.

2. College cost. If you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, engaging in something that could get you kicked out, or perform poorly academically if not flying with parents anymore.

3. Competitiveness of admissions. The Greek life always attracted the good but not stellar or lower achieving students. Those kids aren’t getting in anymore. Kids with an eye toward graduate medical, law school or even business school can’t afford to waste time or risk their GPA in these activities. Gone are the days of the 2.5 or 3.0 frat guy getting into a good law or MBA program.

4. Increased regulation and oversight. The string of deaths along WTH everything being captured on phone cameras is too big a liability for schools to ignore.

5. Demographic changes. Asians, Latinos ,and international students now make a sizable portion of many groups. These groups along with FGLI students have little interest and would be excluded anyway from Greek life. As Greek life is primarily a white culture thing as white enrollment drops so does Greek enrollment. If it’s no longer something that all the students want to get into, it loses its desirability.

Just so we're clear, and for the benefit of the blind posters, you're in the "negative" column, not the "neutral" column, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Greek life is akin to so many negatives . I’d put it in the category of Toddlers with Tiaras, mommy vloggers and influencers, etc.

So you're a "negative," right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

I do agree with the not wanting to pay for friends. When I att need college rush was fall literally during new student week before clssses had begun. Kids had 2 days on campus then bam! Rush started. So no chance for people to make their own friends and those that had started ended up going different ways because they ended up in different sororities

Someone explain “paying for friends”. The phrase is thrown around all the time and makes little sense.

Is joining any organization where you pay dues (a pool club, a running club, a rec softball team, etc.) and receive a product in return “paying for friends”?

My kid saves money with their fraternity fees compared to the other room & board options…how is that “paying for friends”?

DP. Do the pool club, running club, and rec softball team decide whether or not they will allow you to join based on ambiguous reasons, or is anyone allowed as long as they pay the fee?

There's a huge difference. For starters, the rec softball team doesn't all live together. There are only so many rooms in a frat or sorority house, so only so many can fit.

Nice try, though.

Is membership in any of those clubs based on how cute you are, what you’re wearing, legacy status? Do the members vote on whether other students are worth having in the club?

Another "negative."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people here who sound triggered are the Greek boosters. The people who are passing on it - even when the parents were in houses themselves - sound pretty rational.

It really is okay for other people to have other opinions. It won't stop your kid from joining a frat

+1
The most defensive posters are those who can't stand it when others simply say their kids have no interest. It seems to really trigger them.

No one on here is "simply saying their kids have no interest." They're saying they're not interested, yes, but then they have to bash it. There's a difference.

Well, I for one haven't bashed it at all. I just stated my kids have no interest. That's not bashing anything.

Me too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the participation trophy generation. Parents of today's college kids are terrified that their kid won't get the trophy, so they discourage their kids from even participating.

That's why you think kids won't rush? Hoo boy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never said it was buying friends. I said there is a difference between clubs that you just join and organizations where the current members vote on whether you will be permitted to join.

Do you agree?

DP. I don't see people bashing theater. That's more exclusive than greek life. So is orchestra.

You mean because those activities are based on actual talent? You seem very, very confused.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Greek life dropped 50% between 2020-2023 and continues to decline. It’s a vestige of the past.

1. Changing attitudes - students rejecting groups that seek to divide rather than unite, rejecting racist exclusionary practices, and overall less interested in the extreme drunkenness, date rape, and predatory hazing that previous generations reveled in.

2. College cost. If you are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, engaging in something that could get you kicked out, or perform poorly academically if not flying with parents anymore.

3. Competitiveness of admissions. The Greek life always attracted the good but not stellar or lower achieving students. Those kids aren’t getting in anymore. Kids with an eye toward graduate medical, law school or even business school can’t afford to waste time or risk their GPA in these activities. Gone are the days of the 2.5 or 3.0 frat guy getting into a good law or MBA program.

4. Increased regulation and oversight. The string of deaths along WTH everything being captured on phone cameras is too big a liability for schools to ignore.

5. Demographic changes. Asians, Latinos ,and international students now make a sizable portion of many groups. These groups along with FGLI students have little interest and would be excluded anyway from Greek life. As Greek life is primarily a white culture thing as white enrollment drops so does Greek enrollment. If it’s no longer something that all the students want to get into, it loses its desirability.

Just so we're clear, and for the benefit of the blind posters, you're in the "negative" column, not the "neutral" column, right?

Are you OP? Why is there no room in a rational conversation for people to state their opinion even if it’s negative, even if you don’t agree?

What do you think a rational discussion among people with differing experiences and perspectives looks like, exactly?