How to answer sons who are asking me why so many girls have 'girls are better' merch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how Girls on the Run got roped into this. It’s a quality program that has been around forever. It might be chapter-specific, but I believe boys can join GOTR.

LOL at the mom saying her son was hurt or confused that he couldn’t join GOTR. Ummm there are plenty of running clubs for kids. GOTR is not affiliated / sponsored by the schools.

Is your son also going to be hurt and confused when he can’t join the women’s cross country team in high school?

The very first Girls on the Run group was started in 1996 and included 13 girls. Very few mothers of elementary school students have participated themselves.

It operates like Girl Scouts. Someone has to be willing to step up and volunteer to lead a local council. This program only exists where an adult volunteers has made it happen. Adults are free to start a parallel program for boys. Parents are free to lobby their elementary school to ban organizations that won’t admit both sexes.

I’m a PP who has been critical here. To be clear - I actually have zero issues with single-sex programs. The issue is how to address with boys the differences in acceptable language and opportunities for boys v girls. Yes it is true that nothing is stopping parents from starting a boys group, but what boys (accurately) perceive is that there are many resources and much language currently for girls, with no boys equivalent. And moreover, I have my doubts about whether a boy-only group would ever be considered acceptable these days.

The boy equivalents are endemic. It’s weird you don’t understand that.

It's not weird because that's not true. There are many girls clubs in grade school, high school, college and beyond. Few boys clubs, if any.

May I ask, are you a woman or a man? I’m a woman (42). In high school I was on the chess team, the math team, the science team. Typically only me and 2 other girls, and then maybe 10-12 boys. A few (but not all!) of the boys believed that us girls were not as smart as boys. Did you other women not have similar experiences???

I imagine that the increase of girls’ clubs is to try to increase girls’ participation in certain areas. Like science, math, tech.

We’re talking about ES in 2023 not high school in the late 90s.

[Anonymous]

My son is a chess player and chess remains a vastly male dominated activity. At every tournament they have separate trophies for girls and any number of programs to promote girl participation. It is not at all hard for a young boy to understand why these efforts are in place.

Also, maybe it's just my experience, but I honestly can't really imagine boys caring all that much about a "girls rule" tshirt or GOTR unless they are otherwise receiving messages that they are being deprived or something. This seems like such a non-issue unless the parent chooses to make it one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a chess player and chess remains a vastly male dominated activity. At every tournament they have separate trophies for girls and any number of programs to promote girl participation. It is not at all hard for a young boy to understand why these efforts are in place.

Also, maybe it's just my experience, but I honestly can't really imagine boys caring all that much about a "girls rule" tshirt or GOTR unless they are otherwise receiving messages that they are being deprived or something. This seems like such a non-issue unless the parent chooses to make it one.

Again, OP’s child is 7. At that age they have very little exposure to HS chess clubs etc. It’s really normal for them to ask questions along this line.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone told one of your son’s female classmates that she throws just like a boy, it would be understood to be a compliment. If someone told one of your son’s male classmates that he throws just like a girl, it would be understood to be an insult. That’s the thinking behind these pro-girl t-shirts. It’s not okay to insult boys because they’re as awesome as girls are, and neither sex should be thought of as inferior, but there was a time when adult women couldn’t own land, couldn’t vote, and were considered to be the property of their husbands. There are still places in the world today where women aren’t allowed to drive, girls are much less likely to attend school, and females have to be accompanied by a male whenever they leave their home.

That is because boys, thanks to muscle mass and testosterone, throw faster and stronger on average than girls. So of course a girl “throwing like a boy” is a compliment. It means she is throwing faster and stronger. Because, in average, boys throw faster and stronger. It’s not ideological or mysterious it’s just biology.

Uh, no. Those t-shirts say things like “you wish you could throw like a girl.” And it has zero to do with comparisons to boys with more mass and testosterone (which has little to do with throwing a ball WTAF) and everything to do with shared experience of being underestimated or dismissed when in fact girls can make damn fine athletes. Ever seen Jenny Finch strike out Pujols?

Men throw faster than women on average - that’s just a fact.

But women with throwing experience throw just as well and hard as men. So looking at “on average” only reinforces the notion that doing more to get more girls throwing experience would close the gap.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6657012/

“… females with throwing experience reached similar performance as males.”

The study did not find that women throw just as hard and as well as men at all!

The study was using an online computer game therefore it removed all anatomical and physiological differences (that was one of the goals of the study!). It was a computer set up in a busy museum with an audience during some of the trials. Each participant did 100 throws in the online game. There were gender differences in all areas in participants over 20, those under 20 with throwing experiences had fewer gender differences - but maybe they are just better at online games.... The only metric that did not have a gender difference was the rhythm metric and getting into a throwing rhythm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is a chess player and chess remains a vastly male dominated activity. At every tournament they have separate trophies for girls and any number of programs to promote girl participation. It is not at all hard for a young boy to understand why these efforts are in place.

Also, maybe it's just my experience, but I honestly can't really imagine boys caring all that much about a "girls rule" tshirt or GOTR unless they are otherwise receiving messages that they are being deprived or something. This seems like such a non-issue unless the parent chooses to make it one.

Again, OP’s child is 7. At that age they have very little exposure to HS chess clubs etc. It’s really normal for them to ask questions along this line.

My child is 8 and has been competing for 2 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is a chess player and chess remains a vastly male dominated activity. At every tournament they have separate trophies for girls and any number of programs to promote girl participation. It is not at all hard for a young boy to understand why these efforts are in place.

Also, maybe it's just my experience, but I honestly can't really imagine boys caring all that much about a "girls rule" tshirt or GOTR unless they are otherwise receiving messages that they are being deprived or something. This seems like such a non-issue unless the parent chooses to make it one.

Again, OP’s child is 7. At that age they have very little exposure to HS chess clubs etc. It’s really normal for them to ask questions along this line.

My child is 8 and has been competing for 2 years.

PP- and my broader point was that it isn't difficult to answer those questions in a way they understand unless you are otherwise feeding into a narrative of deprivation.

[Anonymous]

Here’s the vibe I’m getting from this thread -

Moms of boys are feeling threatened because girls are being encouraged and elevated in ways that boys are not. I get that. My nephew was recently rejected from his dream school while a female classmate with lower scores/grades was admitted. On an individual level, that probably feels terrible.

But as a result, these “boy moms” on this thread are completely sticking their heads in the sand on the past and present. There is a need to encourage and elevate girls, as a whole.

Also, they’re just t-shirts. If your sons are so threatened by a t-shirt, how on earth are they going to survive this world? Do you have similar problems with MAGA hats? Black Girl Magic hashtags? WTF people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the vibe I’m getting from this thread -

Moms of boys are feeling threatened because girls are being encouraged and elevated in ways that boys are not. I get that. My nephew was recently rejected from his dream school while a female classmate with lower scores/grades was admitted. On an individual level, that probably feels terrible.

But as a result, these “boy moms” on this thread are completely sticking their heads in the sand on the past and present. There is a need to encourage and elevate girls, as a whole.

Also, they’re just t-shirts. If your sons are so threatened by a t-shirt, how on earth are they going to survive this world? Do you have similar problems with MAGA hats? Black Girl Magic hashtags? WTF people.

Yeah, that's what you got if you want to look at it in the worst light possible.

If you actually listened - what moms are noting is that we want to raise our children with good values, but have a hard time knowing what to say when they point out something that appears true: that it is socially acceptable to have a "girls rule" shirt, but not a "boys rule" shirt. The important question is how to have this discussion with very young kids without pushing them away or making them feel like their feelings are unacceptable or must not be voiced. THAT dynamic is exactly what eventually pushes boys into the "red pill" dynamic: once they are in a forum where they are "allowed" to express these taboo feelings, they can now be expressed and exaggerated. Much better to validate boys feelings and acknowledge that it feels unfair. Separately, there actually is good reason to be concerned about how boys are doing. Many parents of boys (NOT just moms) have observed how in elementary school, girls seem to be doing much better than boys. This is supported by research.

It's a very *progressive adult* orthodoxy to be able to say piously "Oh, I understand that BLM does not mean white lives do not matter! Of course "girls rule" is just a way to correct for historical discrimination!" It's a fantasy to believe that children will be able to say or understand the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the vibe I’m getting from this thread -

Moms of boys are feeling threatened because girls are being encouraged and elevated in ways that boys are not. I get that. My nephew was recently rejected from his dream school while a female classmate with lower scores/grades was admitted. On an individual level, that probably feels terrible.

But as a result, these “boy moms” on this thread are completely sticking their heads in the sand on the past and present. There is a need to encourage and elevate girls, as a whole.

Also, they’re just t-shirts. If your sons are so threatened by a t-shirt, how on earth are they going to survive this world? Do you have similar problems with MAGA hats? Black Girl Magic hashtags? WTF people.

Yeah, that's what you got if you want to look at it in the worst light possible.

If you actually listened - what moms are noting is that we want to raise our children with good values, but have a hard time knowing what to say when they point out something that appears true: that it is socially acceptable to have a "girls rule" shirt, but not a "boys rule" shirt. The important question is how to have this discussion with very young kids without pushing them away or making them feel like their feelings are unacceptable or must not be voiced. THAT dynamic is exactly what eventually pushes boys into the "red pill" dynamic: once they are in a forum where they are "allowed" to express these taboo feelings, they can now be expressed and exaggerated. Much better to validate boys feelings and acknowledge that it feels unfair. Separately, there actually is good reason to be concerned about how boys are doing. Many parents of boys (NOT just moms) have observed how in elementary school, girls seem to be doing much better than boys. This is supported by research.

It's a very *progressive adult* orthodoxy to be able to say piously "Oh, I understand that BLM does not mean white lives do not matter! Of course "girls rule" is just a way to correct for historical discrimination!" It's a fantasy to believe that children will be able to say or understand the same way.

Thank you. Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the vibe I’m getting from this thread -

Moms of boys are feeling threatened because girls are being encouraged and elevated in ways that boys are not. I get that. My nephew was recently rejected from his dream school while a female classmate with lower scores/grades was admitted. On an individual level, that probably feels terrible.

But as a result, these “boy moms” on this thread are completely sticking their heads in the sand on the past and present. There is a need to encourage and elevate girls, as a whole.

Also, they’re just t-shirts. If your sons are so threatened by a t-shirt, how on earth are they going to survive this world? Do you have similar problems with MAGA hats? Black Girl Magic hashtags? WTF people.

Do you really have to ask if people (in general) have a problem with MAGA hats? I dare you to put one on and go out in public and find out if people have a problem with MAGA hats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report it to the school/camp admin.

Bullying is not acceptable.

A "Girls Rule" t-shirt is bullying?

How is it not?
Explicit sexism is not welcome in school.

OMFG. Shirts like this don't say anything negative about boys. "Girls rule!" does not mean boys don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the same answer one gives girls who ask why are no moms calling themselves #girlmoms. Or I dunno, the Supreme Court probably has a good answer for you.

op - I don't live in a place where anyone has girlmom or boymom merch so this is not gonna work - we are in NYC.

That was so clearly sarcasm. How do you live in NYC and not understand sarcasm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure how Girls on the Run got roped into this. It’s a quality program that has been around forever. It might be chapter-specific, but I believe boys can join GOTR.

LOL at the mom saying her son was hurt or confused that he couldn’t join GOTR. Ummm there are plenty of running clubs for kids. GOTR is not affiliated / sponsored by the schools.

Is your son also going to be hurt and confused when he can’t join the women’s cross country team in high school?

The very first Girls on the Run group was started in 1996 and included 13 girls. Very few mothers of elementary school students have participated themselves.

It operates like Girl Scouts. Someone has to be willing to step up and volunteer to lead a local council. This program only exists where an adult volunteers has made it happen. Adults are free to start a parallel program for boys. Parents are free to lobby their elementary school to ban organizations that won’t admit both sexes.

I’m a PP who has been critical here. To be clear - I actually have zero issues with single-sex programs. The issue is how to address with boys the differences in acceptable language and opportunities for boys v girls. Yes it is true that nothing is stopping parents from starting a boys group, but what boys (accurately) perceive is that there are many resources and much language currently for girls, with no boys equivalent. And moreover, I have my doubts about whether a boy-only group would ever be considered acceptable these days.

The boy equivalents are endemic. It’s weird you don’t understand that.

Why do you have to create an in-group out group dynamic by saying it is weird? That is divisive and doesn’t further conversation. It is also mean. An opinion/thought shouldn’t be “weird” and using that as a come back instead of just saying what you mean isn’t helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report it to the school/camp admin.

Bullying is not acceptable.

A "Girls Rule" t-shirt is bullying?

How is it not?
Explicit sexism is not welcome in school.

OMFG. Shirts like this don't say anything negative about boys. "Girls rule!" does not mean boys don't.

Oh? Can you explain what rule means then, I don’t think I understand. When I looked it up online it said rule meant to dominate or be the best. If you are the best it is understood that the opposing group, isn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report it to the school/camp admin.

Bullying is not acceptable.

A "Girls Rule" t-shirt is bullying?

How is it not?
Explicit sexism is not welcome in school.

OMFG. Shirts like this don't say anything negative about boys. "Girls rule!" does not mean boys don't.

Oh? Can you explain what rule means then, I don’t think I understand. When I looked it up online it said rule meant to dominate or be the best. If you are the best it is understood that the opposing group, isn’t.

It's the equivalent of "rock"