In tears about my daughter

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]One of my closest friends is a millionaire. He was an English major as an undergrad, worked for several years after that, and then went back to school and got an MBA. He made his money by founding--and selling (thus the many millions)--a business that deals with knowledge. The business allowed him to use his writing and analytical skills and love of reading and knowledge in general. He is a b
ig believer in having a solid foundation in the liberal arts before embarking on a business career. [/quote]

I don't get this kind of response.
I know someone hit lottery and became multimillionaire
Its not about someone you know or someone I know[/quote]

Can't believe this needs to be explained to you, but the point is that there are multiple paths to success.[/quote]

You can vaguely say that but we also have data .
English majors have significantly lower salary compared to STEM, finance.


[/quote]

+1000

Ding ding ding. All these posters talking about how they or their friend or husband are the exception to the rule. So many “if if if” — but with STEM, it’s a guarantee. [/quote]

OP, your daughter doesn’t want the “path to success” you have tried to push her into. If you “NEED her to stay at an Ivy,” you’ll have to pony up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People keep talking about STEM as a guaranteed job, but only if you can do well in it.

You can be very, very smart but college is a whole new ball game. People change majors all the time. I knew a guy who started off as a Chemistry major and ended up doing religious studies and going to seminary. I had a professor in Chemistry who said she started off as an English major.

STEM isn't going to work out if you can't pass Diff Eq.

+1 Lots of kids nearly fail out of STEM and end up with a low GPA.

[Anonymous]

This post really belongs more in the Family Relationship forum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP,
I was an English major. I’m doing very well. That fact you’re so willing to judge a major (and, by extension, your daughter) as “useless” is unfortunate.

I’m not offended by your disparaging remarks about my degree. My self-worth is not wrapped up in what others think of me. Fortunately, your daughter also seems to have a strong sense of direction and self-worth.

Way to go, kid.

It's not judging. There's data and its probability. There's huge amount of momey and time at stake.

Eh. Perhaps if you are 100% status focused, that matters.

I want my children to do more than make money. I want them happy and contributing to society. I know plenty of other English majors. They are happy and contributing. Some are teachers, some work for nonprofits, etc.

Chasing status will always leave you unfulfilled. That’s the read I have on OP.

Sure fine instate schools are great for that.
You sound like status focused so that it should an Ivy?

OP here. I am NOT status focused at all. But the probability that my daughter will regret her choices as an English major are pretty high. Here’s an example:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043100.page

Okay OP,

If you aren’t focused on status, how would you feel if your daughter decided she wanted to be a high school English teacher?

I’d feel awful because literally every teacher I know discourages their own kids from becoming teachers. There’s a reason why there’s been a teacher exodus.

I’m the PP who asked you that question. Yes, there is an exodus because this job is HARD. I work 65 hour weeks and I know I work harder than most of my friends in other fields. I have a stack of IB essays on my lap as I type and I have been grading them for 6 hours now… on a Sunday. Guess what? I am beyond proud of what I do. My work has meaning. I’ve taught for 2 decades now and I have influenced over 2,500 young people. I get regular emails from adults, people who had me as a teacher many years ago, telling me the impact I had on their lives. That’s “status” to me. I get paid in the lives I have influenced.

Your daughter could do MUCH worse.

Your job will never love you back. You sound like a sucker with Stockholm Syndrime.

Interesting. (I’m the PP English teacher.)

Would you say the same thing to a lawyer, doctor, or other professional who works hard? Are they also “suckers,” or is it just me? It’s clear my job DOES love me back. I have stacks of “thank you” notes to prove it.

I am simply not motivated by money. I never have been. I was raised by parents who told me that we are all expected to leave our environments better than we found them, so we were encouraged to select service professions. That’s how I am raising my own children.

[Anonymous]

OP: Sorry you have so little regard for your own kid's self-knowledge and choices. Looking forward to your future posts on the "Family Relationships" forum of DCUM, asking how to relate to your estranged adult daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:guys this is a troll. But it's been fun

Several pages ago, the site moderator got onto this thread to confirm that this OP is not a troll, apparently, or at least isn't one of the people who comes to post on this forum repeatedly about similar issues. So, likely not a troll. If you think it's troll, why are you posting and wasting your time?

The sad thing is that many of us would love to think OP is a troll because we find it so appalling to think a real-life parent would be as self-centered and status-obsessed as OP seems to be.

Actually Jeff said that it’s likely a troll, but he can’t confirm it.

Noticing that OP is not responding to the simple statement that a bluff was called, leaving her with 2 options to either pay the tuition or not pay it. Instead, there’s continued handwringing. Troll on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I was an English major. I’m doing very well. That fact you’re so willing to judge a major (and, by extension, your daughter) as “useless” is unfortunate.

I’m not offended by your disparaging remarks about my degree. My self-worth is not wrapped up in what others think of me. Fortunately, your daughter also seems to have a strong sense of direction and self-worth.

Way to go, kid.

It's not judging. There's data and its probability. There's huge amount of momey and time at stake.

Eh. Perhaps if you are 100% status focused, that matters.

I want my children to do more than make money. I want them happy and contributing to society. I know plenty of other English majors. They are happy and contributing. Some are teachers, some work for nonprofits, etc.

Chasing status will always leave you unfulfilled. That’s the read I have on OP.

Sure fine instate schools are great for that.
You sound like status focused so that it should an Ivy?

OP here. I am NOT status focused at all. But the probability that my daughter will regret her choices as an English major are pretty high. Here’s an example:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043100.page

Okay OP,

If you aren’t focused on status, how would you feel if your daughter decided she wanted to be a high school English teacher?

I’d feel awful because literally every teacher I know discourages their own kids from becoming teachers. There’s a reason why there’s been a teacher exodus.

I’m the PP who asked you that question. Yes, there is an exodus because this job is HARD. I work 65 hour weeks and I know I work harder than most of my friends in other fields. I have a stack of IB essays on my lap as I type and I have been grading them for 6 hours now… on a Sunday. Guess what? I am beyond proud of what I do. My work has meaning. I’ve taught for 2 decades now and I have influenced over 2,500 young people. I get regular emails from adults, people who had me as a teacher many years ago, telling me the impact I had on their lives. That’s “status” to me. I get paid in the lives I have influenced.

Your daughter could do MUCH worse.

Your job will never love you back. You sound like a sucker with Stockholm Syndrime.

Interesting. (I’m the PP English teacher.)

Would you say the same thing to a lawyer, doctor, or other professional who works hard? Are they also “suckers,” or is it just me? It’s clear my job DOES love me back. I have stacks of “thank you” notes to prove it.

I am simply not motivated by money. I never have been. I was raised by parents who told me that we are all expected to leave our environments better than we found them, so we were encouraged to select service professions. That’s how I am raising my own children.

Given we saw the legal profession decimated after the 2008 recession and the medical profession on the verge of collapse with socialized medicine and COVID, it is hard to fathom why anyone would advise their kids to pursue these.

[Anonymous]

15 pages is quite a nice troll. Congratulations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I was an English major. I’m doing very well. That fact you’re so willing to judge a major (and, by extension, your daughter) as “useless” is unfortunate.

I’m not offended by your disparaging remarks about my degree. My self-worth is not wrapped up in what others think of me. Fortunately, your daughter also seems to have a strong sense of direction and self-worth.

Way to go, kid.

It's not judging. There's data and its probability. There's huge amount of momey and time at stake.

Eh. Perhaps if you are 100% status focused, that matters.

I want my children to do more than make money. I want them happy and contributing to society. I know plenty of other English majors. They are happy and contributing. Some are teachers, some work for nonprofits, etc.

Chasing status will always leave you unfulfilled. That’s the read I have on OP.

Sure fine instate schools are great for that.
You sound like status focused so that it should an Ivy?

OP here. I am NOT status focused at all. But the probability that my daughter will regret her choices as an English major are pretty high. Here’s an example:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043100.page

Okay OP,

If you aren’t focused on status, how would you feel if your daughter decided she wanted to be a high school English teacher?

I’d feel awful because literally every teacher I know discourages their own kids from becoming teachers. There’s a reason why there’s been a teacher exodus.

I’m the PP who asked you that question. Yes, there is an exodus because this job is HARD. I work 65 hour weeks and I know I work harder than most of my friends in other fields. I have a stack of IB essays on my lap as I type and I have been grading them for 6 hours now… on a Sunday. Guess what? I am beyond proud of what I do. My work has meaning. I’ve taught for 2 decades now and I have influenced over 2,500 young people. I get regular emails from adults, people who had me as a teacher many years ago, telling me the impact I had on their lives. That’s “status” to me. I get paid in the lives I have influenced.

Your daughter could do MUCH worse.

Hey teacher- thanks! I have much admiration for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I was an English major. I’m doing very well. That fact you’re so willing to judge a major (and, by extension, your daughter) as “useless” is unfortunate.

I’m not offended by your disparaging remarks about my degree. My self-worth is not wrapped up in what others think of me. Fortunately, your daughter also seems to have a strong sense of direction and self-worth.

Way to go, kid.

It's not judging. There's data and its probability. There's huge amount of momey and time at stake.

Eh. Perhaps if you are 100% status focused, that matters.

I want my children to do more than make money. I want them happy and contributing to society. I know plenty of other English majors. They are happy and contributing. Some are teachers, some work for nonprofits, etc.

Chasing status will always leave you unfulfilled. That’s the read I have on OP.

Sure fine instate schools are great for that.
You sound like status focused so that it should an Ivy?

OP here. I am NOT status focused at all. But the probability that my daughter will regret her choices as an English major are pretty high. Here’s an example:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043100.page

Okay OP,

If you aren’t focused on status, how would you feel if your daughter decided she wanted to be a high school English teacher?

I’d feel awful because literally every teacher I know discourages their own kids from becoming teachers. There’s a reason why there’s been a teacher exodus.

I’m the PP who asked you that question. Yes, there is an exodus because this job is HARD. I work 65 hour weeks and I know I work harder than most of my friends in other fields. I have a stack of IB essays on my lap as I type and I have been grading them for 6 hours now… on a Sunday. Guess what? I am beyond proud of what I do. My work has meaning. I’ve taught for 2 decades now and I have influenced over 2,500 young people. I get regular emails from adults, people who had me as a teacher many years ago, telling me the impact I had on their lives. That’s “status” to me. I get paid in the lives I have influenced.

Your daughter could do MUCH worse.

Your job will never love you back. You sound like a sucker with Stockholm Syndrime.

Interesting. (I’m the PP English teacher.)

Would you say the same thing to a lawyer, doctor, or other professional who works hard? Are they also “suckers,” or is it just me? It’s clear my job DOES love me back. I have stacks of “thank you” notes to prove it.

I am simply not motivated by money. I never have been. I was raised by parents who told me that we are all expected to leave our environments better than we found them, so we were encouraged to select service professions. That’s how I am raising my own children.

Your job will never love you back. And I would totally say the same thing to, say, a non-profit lawyer who makes $70k/year after going into six-figure debt for law school.

And your last line is showing your immense privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a freshman at an Ivy. We told her that we would only pay for three majors:

1. Econ/Stats/Applied Math with intentions of going into business (finance and consulting firms love her school)
2. CS with intentions of going into tech
3. Any major as long as she completes the 11 required courses to get into med school

My daughter told me last night over the phone that she plans on majoring in English (??!!!!) with no plans to complete the required pre-med classes. We told her that we wouldn’t pay for her college tuition going forward because English is NOT an employable major. She then told me that she’s okay with going to a cheap community college because apparently to her, “doing what she loves is more important than going to an Ivy.”

Help! What do we do? We NEED her to stay at an Ivy, and we are full-pay; it’s a sacrifice, but it’s worth it. But we also NEED her to major in something employable. We are in despair. Please help.

PS: I know someone is going to suggest law school. DH is a lawyer and has told DD that he’d rather see her unemployed before becoming a lawyer (besides, I think my daughter’s temperament would be ill-suited to law).

This is why I hoped my DD would get into an Ivy, so she could major in whatever she wanted and still have opportunities with any major. English is a great degree to have, especially w/ Ivy status/connections. She will gain excellent writing and analysis skills. You should be thrilled your kid is at this school and celebrate her academic pursuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You suck.

We absolutely do not suck. Most parents aren’t willing to drop $300k for a BA in ENGLISH of all subjects.

What is your damage? What is wrong w/ English? I am really hoping you are a troll too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,
I was an English major. I’m doing very well. That fact you’re so willing to judge a major (and, by extension, your daughter) as “useless” is unfortunate.

I’m not offended by your disparaging remarks about my degree. My self-worth is not wrapped up in what others think of me. Fortunately, your daughter also seems to have a strong sense of direction and self-worth.

Way to go, kid.

It's not judging. There's data and its probability. There's huge amount of momey and time at stake.

Eh. Perhaps if you are 100% status focused, that matters.

I want my children to do more than make money. I want them happy and contributing to society. I know plenty of other English majors. They are happy and contributing. Some are teachers, some work for nonprofits, etc.

Chasing status will always leave you unfulfilled. That’s the read I have on OP.

Sure fine instate schools are great for that.
You sound like status focused so that it should an Ivy?

OP here. I am NOT status focused at all. But the probability that my daughter will regret her choices as an English major are pretty high. Here’s an example:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1043100.page

Okay OP,

If you aren’t focused on status, how would you feel if your daughter decided she wanted to be a high school English teacher?

I’d feel awful because literally every teacher I know discourages their own kids from becoming teachers. There’s a reason why there’s been a teacher exodus.

I’m the PP who asked you that question. Yes, there is an exodus because this job is HARD. I work 65 hour weeks and I know I work harder than most of my friends in other fields. I have a stack of IB essays on my lap as I type and I have been grading them for 6 hours now… on a Sunday. Guess what? I am beyond proud of what I do. My work has meaning. I’ve taught for 2 decades now and I have influenced over 2,500 young people. I get regular emails from adults, people who had me as a teacher many years ago, telling me the impact I had on their lives. That’s “status” to me. I get paid in the lives I have influenced.

Your daughter could do MUCH worse.

Your job will never love you back. You sound like a sucker with Stockholm Syndrime.

Interesting. (I’m the PP English teacher.)

Would you say the same thing to a lawyer, doctor, or other professional who works hard? Are they also “suckers,” or is it just me? It’s clear my job DOES love me back. I have stacks of “thank you” notes to prove it.

I am simply not motivated by money. I never have been. I was raised by parents who told me that we are all expected to leave our environments better than we found them, so we were encouraged to select service professions. That’s how I am raising my own children.

Your job will never love you back. And I would totally say the same thing to, say, a non-profit lawyer who makes $70k/year after going into six-figure debt for law school.

And your last line is showing your immense privilege.

I’m the PP. That line certainly does show my privilege. I’m quite aware that my ability to choose a career is privilege. That’s why it’s important to pick one that helps others.

You would say that to a nonprofit lawyer making $70K. I assume that means you wouldn’t say that to a lawyer making $600K, $800K, or some other astronomical amount? Is money, therefore, the only way a job can show “love”?

[Anonymous]

She's an adult, let her do what she wants. And get loans to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re not a troll, did you ask your kid what they plan to do with a degree in English? Maybe you can brainstorm together. Otherwise, your kid has called your bluff, and both of you must live with the consequences.

FWIW, my DH and I have BA degrees from an Ivy. We are doing fine.

OP here. She told me she wants to “go into publishing” and “get an MFA in creative writing” down the line. While we are full-pay, we CANNOT afford to bankroll her after graduation. I keep telling her that publishing and MFA programs are for rich kids, but she won’t listen!

Wrong again. I have an MFA that I paid for myself. In theatre (gasp)!!! Not from a rich family. Her Ivy undergrad may help her get into an MFA program that is fully subsidized. Or, she can go to a great program that isn't as expensive and figure out how to pay. But, that is for her to figure out. You support her in undergrad and salvage your relationship before it's too late. And, quit harshing on the humanities. It just makes you look ignorant.