Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

Your FILs "stinginess" is not for you to decide. He's a self-made man compared to you, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. You have no idea what it took for your FIL to reach his 8-figure wealth. I personally came to the US with one suitcase and have plenty of wealth now as well as a doctorate degree. There's no way in hell I'd be paying for my adult kids' vacations and meals. I already gave them plenty of opportunities by coming here and living in poverty at the beginning of my studies and career. If I have any money left over at the end of my life, I intend to donate it to trusts that I establish in my home country for smart students there. I'd not paying for the likes of you to stuff your face.

Your FIL is not asking you for money for HIM. He's expecting you to pay your own share, which you should do, as an adult. What is embarrassing is you expecting your spouse's father to pay for your vacations and meals. Also, if you only work 0.8 FTE, this 0.2 FTE is a lot of money for a doctor, so you are subsidizing your own family (which you're entitled to). Hopefully you're not putting people's names on publications who have contributed nothing, it's already painful to referee current "research" as it is (maybe that's the reason).

OP here. I am utterly unbothered by your “silver spoon” comment. I immensely proud of my grandparents and parents hard work. I am proud of my own hard work currently as well as in medical school and residency. I look forward to sharing my success with my children and grandchildren and would love it if they were even more privileged than me!

As my family enjoys wonderful trips together, dinners, and enjoying life together you will deny your own family that pleasure. My family will only continue to grow more prosperous as yours withers because you apparently have a chip on your shoulder over the fact your kids had an easier life. What a shame for you. I am so thankful that my parents and grandparents are nothing like you!

There's something off with you. This is not how normal people think or talk.

OP is defensive here, thinking by using a facade of "I'm not bothered" can cover it.

Granted, I do agree that the PP he is responding to is a bit of an A-hole that and not more willing to help his own kids more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP, you might want to stop talking. Every time you post a reply I like you less. You are a snob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP, you might want to stop talking. Every time you post a reply I like you less. You are a snob.

A money obsessed boor. Nobody likes people like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm part of a money flows downward, pay it forward family, but suspect we aren't getting the whole story from OP.

His parents bought him a house. Is wife on the deed? Is there a prenup? Does the wife have any money of her own, now she doesn't work. How does wife feel about not paying back the loan?

Who paid for the wedding and how much did it cost?

In some pay it forward families, the family would pay this debt. Did OP's parents discuss that with him?

If everyone is so wealthy why do they need so much help? Why are the old dependent on the young?

[Anonymous]

Is Op a woman? I'm guessing with so many exclamation points for punctuation, this might be the case.

[Anonymous]

Her loans are her responsibility. Those need to be on hold until she starts working.

For dining and travel, just accept what works for you.

Overall, be generous but don't feel obligated to go out of your comfort zone.

You and your FIL sound like more alike than you and your family.

[Anonymous]

One issue, if you two decide, she stays home to raise kids then guess you pay her loans as you are benefiting from unpaid labor and she is missing out on paying back what she promised to pay back to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe anyone can possibly agree with OP. It’s clear that the wife was paying her father back because there previously were payments to be stopped. However, OP and his wife decided she would stop having an income, which their decision to make, but OP refused to accept one of the results of that decision which is that he would need to foot all of his wife’s bills, which includes the one to her parents, whether he likes it or not. Instead he decided her father didn’t deserve to be paid back, so he just wouldn’t. His FIL is not choosing not to cut off his daughter over this but is upset.

OP sounds like a physician with a god complex who enjoys having his wife dependent on him so he can call the shots and force his own agenda based on how he views her family. He clearly enjoys feeling like a benefactor and still doesn’t understand that it’s easy to be generous when you have a ton of money and resources and have never had to struggle.

The father in law sounds like an interesting person who has done a lot with very little. I am not going to make the same decisions but I have a lot of respect for someone who likely really hustled and sacrificed in a way OP will probably never understand.

The FIL sucks if he has a mid-8-figure income and wants his SIL to pay back his daughter's "loan" for college that was never even documented. I don't respect that at all. My father is similar to OP's FIL, and even though he never went to college, he paid for all of our education - law school, medical school, pilot training - we pretty much got a blank check if it was in furtherance of our path toward self-sufficiency. Now we cover our own expenses, but education? Of course, he paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her loans are her responsibility. Those need to be on hold until she starts working.

For dining and travel, just accept what works for you.

Overall, be generous but don't feel obligated to go out of your comfort zone.

You and your FIL sound like more alike than you and your family.

Any undocumented quasi-agreements made between an 18-year-old and her parents are not a "loan". Its not enforceable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There's something off with you. This is not how normal people think or talk.

That much is clear. I suspect OP is high-functioning autistic and just does not understand how other people can live by different values.

OP should pay his fair share of expenses when he spends time with in-laws. If the suggested trips are too expensive, OP can politely decline and tell them they're too expensive. The whole "my parents are subsidizing my in-laws" premise doesn't hold up. OP's family rules apply only when OP is interacting with his own family. When he's interacting with the outside world (including in-laws), he needs to pay his own way. Personally, this is easy for me to understand. I don't know why OP has such a hard time with it, but that's why I suspect he's on the spectrum - he's displaying a highly recognizable rigid mentality that is associated with autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's something off with you. This is not how normal people think or talk.

That much is clear. I suspect OP is high-functioning autistic and just does not understand how other people can live by different values.

OP should pay his fair share of expenses when he spends time with in-laws. If the suggested trips are too expensive, OP can politely decline and tell them they're too expensive. The whole "my parents are subsidizing my in-laws" premise doesn't hold up. OP's family rules apply only when OP is interacting with his own family. When he's interacting with the outside world (including in-laws), he needs to pay his own way. Personally, this is easy for me to understand. I don't know why OP has such a hard time with it, but that's why I suspect he's on the spectrum - he's displaying a highly recognizable rigid mentality that is associated with autism.

The thing about arguments by people on the spectrum is that they are usually logical and rational. OP's family is in effect subsidizing his rich in-laws if OP has to pay back his nonworking wife's student loan, especially if OP is relying on family money to live during his residency, which it kind of sounds like may be the case. Now, he has already shut down the "loan" repayment nonsense, and rightfully so.

[Anonymous]

In a perfect world, two educated individuals would have discussed finances and worked this out before marriage. Unless it was a surprise elopement, most parents would have wanted to know about student loan debt of prospective son or daughter-in-law. Especially parents still subsidizing an adult child. In my experience.

I'm leaning toward bot, but enjoying the thread.

[Anonymous]

OP is going to be a nightmare in divorce court. Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There's something off with you. This is not how normal people think or talk.

That much is clear. I suspect OP is high-functioning autistic and just does not understand how other people can live by different values.

OP should pay his fair share of expenses when he spends time with in-laws. If the suggested trips are too expensive, OP can politely decline and tell them they're too expensive. The whole "my parents are subsidizing my in-laws" premise doesn't hold up. OP's family rules apply only when OP is interacting with his own family. When he's interacting with the outside world (including in-laws), he needs to pay his own way. Personally, this is easy for me to understand. I don't know why OP has such a hard time with it, but that's why I suspect he's on the spectrum - he's displaying a highly recognizable rigid mentality that is associated with autism.

The thing about arguments by people on the spectrum is that they are usually logical and rational. OP's family is in effect subsidizing his rich in-laws if OP has to pay back his nonworking wife's student loan, especially if OP is relying on family money to live during his residency, which it kind of sounds like may be the case. Now, he has already shut down the "loan" repayment nonsense, and rightfully so.

PP you replied to. The loan thing was ridic, so I agree that he was right to put his foot down. But for current expenses, I think his FIL is right to not pay for the entire family group when they go on vacation. OP shouldn't complain about having to pay for his share of restaurant meals and hotel rooms and such.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the posts, but I'm am with you OP. If they didn't want to pay for college so be it, though strange for a wealthy person, but you at least guide your kid toward scholarships and state school or community college first. They sound cheap and super strange with money.

My father made a lot and my parents lived well. They insisted I must go to any ivy, when I was perfectly happy to go to state school. Then no thank you was enough for my mother-guilt trips constantly over the cost. She used to make all sorts of offers like if I didn't have a wedding, we'd get the money to use as we please. We didn't have a wedding and didn't get the money. I could write for pages about all the dances with money. I basically didn't engage with her at all when it came to money-your money-your choice but stop dangling carrots. We also stopped doing anything with her that involves money. She would then try to make me jealous telling me the expensive financial gifts she gave to others and I had to make it clear again-your money your choice, but I will not engage with this.

Over the years we have occasionally had friends who were strange with money. One couple would order the most expensive dishes and then drink like fish. We are on a budget and order low price and only drink water. Of course they would want to split 50-50 and then they wanted to be cheap for the tip so ended up paying 75% of the tip so the server got more money. We just won't do dinner with them. We'll meet up for a free outdoor concert or something like that. It works.