Reply to Do you think it's okay to criticize the behavior of a kid who is not yours?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP here. This conversation is interesting. I wouldn't get too hung up on whether not I'm right to dislike this kid -- I feel confident in my assessment here. I've known this child and her parents since K, so five years. I'm not basing my assessment in just a few months of my kid complaining -- I've personally witnessed this child's behavior enough to know that when DD complains about it, I understand the context. I've interacted with this kid a lot and also watched her interact with both my DD and other kids and adults.

My friend's complaint was specifically with me referring to this kid the way you might describe a difficult neighbor or coworker, like "oh yeah, they are an a**hole." I know my friend would have no problem with me describing a bad neighbor that way. So I was surprised that she drew the line regarding a kid she doesn't know. She has kids, so I don't know if she just feels bothered by the idea of someone referring to her kids that way, or just generally doesn't think you should ever call a kid an a**hole.

No one has written anything here that changed my mind, though it does seem some people just don't like vulgarity I'm general or applied to kids. Would people have a different opinion if I called the kid a jerk? I would not call her a bully because I don't think her behavior is bullying -- it's more annoying and kind of a downer than anything else. It's the sort of behavior that, in an adult, would make me avoid them as much as I could, which is why I do feel bad for my kid winding up in the same classroom this year, plus we live a few blocks apart so paths overlap quite a bit. My kid doesn't really have the option of avoiding right now. But soon! [/quote]

NP. If you said what you said to me, I would do a slow fade and keep my kid away from you. I have very little patience for adults who do not give kids space to grow. You do not know what’s going on in this child’s life right now, what she can’t control, and what she is learning.

I think your language was appalling. And I’d feel the same way if you used “jerk,” for what it’s worth. Parents who gossip about kids are generally terrible people and I’d want to stay far, far away. [/quote]

My friend didn't ask me "hey how's that other kid at the elementary school doing?" She asked how my DD was doing. My DD is doing well except there's a girl in her class who is an a**hole to her and others and that's been trying.

Nothing about that denies that girl a chance to learn or grow. I hope she does. I wish her the best. Right now, she's an a**hole and her behavior impacts my kid, who is the one I'm focused on.[/quote]

Your kid is doing well except there is one girl who makes her feel insecure and instead of you teaching your DD to be resilient you are teaching her to harbor grievances. [/quote]

[/quote]

Bullshit. Neither of you have any idea how OP is teaching her daughter to handle anything based on a conversation her daughter wasn't a part of. You're just making something up.

I tell my kid to ignore kids like this, but naming what's wrong with them is part of that.[b] "This person is trash and it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel" is a useful way to approach the world.[/quote][/b]

Holy moly this thread is depressing. I feel sad if we are sending kids into the world with this mindset [/quote]

I have to believe that PP is just OP sock-puppeting. It’s too depressing otherwise. [/quote]

So you teach your kid to worry about the opinions of jerks? That depresses me more than warning my kid that people like that exists. I genuinely don't get how parents don't admit that some kids suck. Haven't y'all ever encountered a bully?[/quote]

Wow. You really see no issue with teaching children that other children are trash. That is indeed depressing and far, far beyond teaching children that bullies exist and how to handle them. [/quote]

NP.  I would replace the word "trash" with "mean" or "bully" or whatever makes sense, and otherwise I think that PP's advice to child is spot-on:

"it's not worth your time to care about how they're trying to make you feel".

OP can't win with the sanctimonious echo chamber of the 2 or 3 PPs who took over this discussion last night because they thought she was too fixated and yet this approach is apparently depressing.

I'm depressed that folks don't understand that 4th grade jerks exist.  They have time to grow out of it, but in the present, their behvior makes them a jerk.  I'm depressed that the knee-jerk reaction of some to a parent describing a mean child is to psychoanalyze her and disbelieve her.  I guess that mean kids will never learn to do or be better and we're doomed to have them grow into full-fledged adult ***holes.

I'm depressed that the "kids need space to grow" crowd (which I actually agree with) don't seem to understand that the growth won't happen unless the kid gets called out hard and often and experiences negative consequences (maybe, e.g., the temporary loss of friends) for their crappy behavior.  Do y'all think a switch will just one day go off and they will start to be kind?  It doesn't work like that, and their parents obviously aren't teaching them.  [/quote]

based on everything OP wrote I don’t believe the girl is a “jerk” at all. And I think an adult hoping that a child who is not their own, and about whom they know very little, get “called out hard and often and experience negative consequences” is authoritarian and sadistic and weird. [/quote]

I'm not even talking about this girl anymore.  Whatever.  But, in general, the fact that you completely missed what I was getting at depresses me.  I want the rough-around-the-edges kids -- the ones that stick out by upper ES (and most of us have experienced such kids) -- to turn out to not be actual ***holes.  How will a child struggling with these negative behaviors grow out of them if there are not negative consequences for them?  Like, really, what do you suggest?[/quote]

Nobody said that kids should go unchecked. The topic here is deciding that a kid is a “jerk” based on extremely incomplete and biased evidence. Does gossiping and name calling by adults do anything to help children? [/quote]

I have never, in many years of parenting (my kids are now older teens and young adults), seen a situation where adults gossiping and name-calling about a child has ever helped either the child targeted by the adults or other children. [/quote]

I have two older kids as well.  In my experience you can't tell in the slightest by the time the kids are in high school who was the rambunctious kindergartner that couldn't share, said unkind-ish things, etc.  But the kids in 4th grade who stuck out for mean behavior -- things such as taunting kids who needed reading tutoring, like OP described -- absolutely always remained mean all throughout high school.  So, based on my actual lived experiences, I do think that the behaviors you exhibit at age 10 are indicative of who you ARE as a person.  A small minority of 4th graders are mean people.

And if that had happened to my DD, and I told a friend about the incident, including something like "a mean girl in the class taunted DD", I would not be gossiping.  I would be talking about an actual experienced that happened to my DD.  [/quote]

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