Visiting family - Prayers before meals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

Nope. No one wants to know you are so lost. Enjoy your food if you really can't wait for 5 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Oh for f**ks sake. The food will be cold by the time we finish the Zoroastrian incantation. Just say it quickly in your head if you must. I’m sure your god(s) will hear you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

It’s completely silly. Atheists haven’t once said they want to express gratitude about anything, they want to eat immediately, even while the rest of the dinner party is saying grace.

And declaring God doesn’t exist to a group of family and friends who believe is just ridiculous. That’s why people don’t like atheists. They are not tolerant or kind or accepting. They want to challenge loved ones about their beliefs and argue about evidence at Thanksgiving. I doubt anyone posting here has actually hosted and treated their family like this, because it would cause huge problems and be the opposite of what a family gathering should be. I am so glad that the people in my family are kind and loving, because life is too short to debate religion at every holiday. People in my family actually care about each other and we have different religions represented, and several agnostic and atheist family members. Family gatherings are about family, not debates about who is right and who is wrong or whatever nonsense atheists are flogging here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

Really? The protestants raise heck during dinner because someone prays a way they don’t like? What denomination? Where did this happen? You witnessed it?

DH has extended family members, Presbyterians and Evangelicals among them, who absolutely do not approve of Catholicism and think that the "hail Mary" prayer is the equivalent of having false idols. They also don't approve of non-Christians, but they come into less contact with them.

And they have disrupted family dinners over a Catholic saying grace?

I distinctly recall some prominent eye rolling and audible tut-tuts at a wedding some years ago when a Catholic priest got up to pray and mentioned it was saint so and so's feast day and included the saint in the prayer.

But I don't know why you are talking about disruptions. This conversation is about how uncomfortable it can make people when someone who is not the host announces they want to pray before dinner in mixed company and how the host/ess should respond. No one is saying to actively disrupt a dinner, only that if you don't want to bow your head or pretend you are a fellow believer you really don't have to. No need to "disrupt" unless you define disruption as not bowing a head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

It’s completely silly. Atheists haven’t once said they want to express gratitude about anything, they want to eat immediately, even while the rest of the dinner party is saying grace.

And declaring God doesn’t exist to a group of family and friends who believe is just ridiculous. That’s why people don’t like atheists. They are not tolerant or kind or accepting. They want to challenge loved ones about their beliefs and argue about evidence at Thanksgiving. I doubt anyone posting here has actually hosted and treated their family like this, because it would cause huge problems and be the opposite of what a family gathering should be. I am so glad that the people in my family are kind and loving, because life is too short to debate religion at every holiday. People in my family actually care about each other and we have different religions represented, and several agnostic and atheist family members. Family gatherings are about family, not debates about who is right and who is wrong or whatever nonsense atheists are flogging here.

DP

"This is why people don't like atheists" LOLOLOLOL So tolerant and welcoming of you.

Obnoxious behavior crosses all beliefs and non-beliefs. Please. What a naive thing to think that every religious person is as tolerant and loving as your family. Some of whom are probably secretly agnostic/atheist because it's too dangerous to tell people you don't believe. I've been living that lie in my own family for decades. Because it's not worth it to tell these folks that I don't share their beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

DP. I'm not scared of it, but I do think it's extremely rude for a guest to ask others to do it. If a guest asked, I'd probably quieting go along with it - obviously not bowing head or closing eyes - and rethink the guest list for next time.

So no guest has ever asked you if they can lead a prayer in your home? Why are you so outraged over something that has never happened?

Not once. How awkward? They are welcome to silently do so and imagine that happens. No one has asked. I guess we’d say yes. It’s a bit presumptuous though. If we habitually prayed at mealtime that would have already happened. I’m not against it, do find it strange though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

No, it’s about gathering as a family and being thankful. The food is great, but being with people who love you and care about you is really the important part. You apparently don’t have that in your life, and your sour and bitter attitude is the result. You don’t have any human kindness or respect for other people, and that’s why people don’t like atheists like you. It has nothing to do with your disbelief in God, and everything to do with your lack of respect and manners. (There are atheists who are kind and respectful, but you are not one of them.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

It’s completely silly. Atheists haven’t once said they want to express gratitude about anything, they want to eat immediately, even while the rest of the dinner party is saying grace.

And declaring God doesn’t exist to a group of family and friends who believe is just ridiculous. That’s why people don’t like atheists. They are not tolerant or kind or accepting. They want to challenge loved ones about their beliefs and argue about evidence at Thanksgiving. I doubt anyone posting here has actually hosted and treated their family like this, because it would cause huge problems and be the opposite of what a family gathering should be. I am so glad that the people in my family are kind and loving, because life is too short to debate religion at every holiday. People in my family actually care about each other and we have different religions represented, and several agnostic and atheist family members. Family gatherings are about family, not debates about who is right and who is wrong or whatever nonsense atheists are flogging here.

DP

"This is why people don't like atheists" LOLOLOLOL So tolerant and welcoming of you.

Obnoxious behavior crosses all beliefs and non-beliefs. Please. What a naive thing to think that every religious person is as tolerant and loving as your family. Some of whom are probably secretly agnostic/atheist because it's too dangerous to tell people you don't believe. I've been living that lie in my own family for decades. Because it's not worth it to tell these folks that I don't share their beliefs.

Dangerous? Your family is dangerous to you? They would do what to you? Physically attack you?


We don’t have secret atheists- our atheists are just who they are. They don’t hide anything. People don’t love their family members because they think like them or believe the same thing.

You have problems with your family, which is not uncommon. But don’t think other people are like your family, because they aren’t.

I want to know what danger you would face as an atheist. I think you are exaggerating and embellishing for attention and to flame your own feelings of being persecuted. You enjoy feeling special and keeping secrets, or something toxic like that. Therapy stat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

It’s completely silly. Atheists haven’t once said they want to express gratitude about anything, they want to eat immediately, even while the rest of the dinner party is saying grace.

And declaring God doesn’t exist to a group of family and friends who believe is just ridiculous. That’s why people don’t like atheists. They are not tolerant or kind or accepting. They want to challenge loved ones about their beliefs and argue about evidence at Thanksgiving. I doubt anyone posting here has actually hosted and treated their family like this, because it would cause huge problems and be the opposite of what a family gathering should be. I am so glad that the people in my family are kind and loving, because life is too short to debate religion at every holiday. People in my family actually care about each other and we have different religions represented, and several agnostic and atheist family members. Family gatherings are about family, not debates about who is right and who is wrong or whatever nonsense atheists are flogging here.

DP

"This is why people don't like atheists" LOLOLOLOL So tolerant and welcoming of you.

Obnoxious behavior crosses all beliefs and non-beliefs. Please. What a naive thing to think that every religious person is as tolerant and loving as your family. Some of whom are probably secretly agnostic/atheist because it's too dangerous to tell people you don't believe. I've been living that lie in my own family for decades. Because it's not worth it to tell these folks that I don't share their beliefs.

Dangerous? Your family is dangerous to you? They would do what to you? Physically attack you?


We don’t have secret atheists- our atheists are just who they are. They don’t hide anything. People don’t love their family members because they think like them or believe the same thing.

You have problems with your family, which is not uncommon. But don’t think other people are like your family, because they aren’t.

I want to know what danger you would face as an atheist. I think you are exaggerating and embellishing for attention and to flame your own feelings of being persecuted. You enjoy feeling special and keeping secrets, or something toxic like that. Therapy stat.

Bless your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

It’s completely silly. Atheists haven’t once said they want to express gratitude about anything, they want to eat immediately, even while the rest of the dinner party is saying grace.

And declaring God doesn’t exist to a group of family and friends who believe is just ridiculous. That’s why people don’t like atheists. They are not tolerant or kind or accepting. They want to challenge loved ones about their beliefs and argue about evidence at Thanksgiving. I doubt anyone posting here has actually hosted and treated their family like this, because it would cause huge problems and be the opposite of what a family gathering should be. I am so glad that the people in my family are kind and loving, because life is too short to debate religion at every holiday. People in my family actually care about each other and we have different religions represented, and several agnostic and atheist family members. Family gatherings are about family, not debates about who is right and who is wrong or whatever nonsense atheists are flogging here.

DP

"This is why people don't like atheists" LOLOLOLOL So tolerant and welcoming of you.

Obnoxious behavior crosses all beliefs and non-beliefs. Please. What a naive thing to think that every religious person is as tolerant and loving as your family. Some of whom are probably secretly agnostic/atheist because it's too dangerous to tell people you don't believe. I've been living that lie in my own family for decades. Because it's not worth it to tell these folks that I don't share their beliefs.

Dangerous? Your family is dangerous to you? They would do what to you? Physically attack you?


We don’t have secret atheists- our atheists are just who they are. They don’t hide anything. People don’t love their family members because they think like them or believe the same thing.

You have problems with your family, which is not uncommon. But don’t think other people are like your family, because they aren’t.

I want to know what danger you would face as an atheist. I think you are exaggerating and embellishing for attention and to flame your own feelings of being persecuted. You enjoy feeling special and keeping secrets, or something toxic like that. Therapy stat.

Bless your heart.

pp definitely needs therapy. They have a persecution complex, are paranoid they are in danger, and are convinced they need to live a lie and keep a secret from their entire family. Do you think that is a healthy way to go through life?

What about that is good on any level?

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Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

IN. THEIR. OWN. HOUSE.

You still don’t get it.