Visiting family - Prayers before meals

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

DP. I'm not scared of it, but I do think it's extremely rude for a guest to ask others to do it. If a guest asked, I'd probably quieting go along with it - obviously not bowing head or closing eyes - and rethink the guest list for next time.

So no guest has ever asked you if they can lead a prayer in your home? Why are you so outraged over something that has never happened?

Because the OP said that her DH’s family comes over and insists on prayers before meals. So I am trying to think about how I would feel about that - and the answer is annoyed because it’s rude to ask.

I have had people give a prayer before a meal without asking. I was annoyed and we stopped inviting them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I actually have someone just starting prayers before a meal without in our home. It was very rude and I was annoyed. We don't ask that family to join us anymore.

I would probably be quiet, but I wouldn't bow my head or anything like that. If it was taking a long time and everyone was at the table and served their food I might start eating. Or take a sip of my drink while rolling my eyes with the other people who have their eyes open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Your logic fails completely.

Do we indulge what the guests wish to do, or respect the wishes of our host?

Please answer.

Is your confidence in atheism so weak that a short prayer will shake your foundational beliefs?

A host will consider reasonable requests from guests. A short prayer is not an unreasonable request. They aren't asking to spout racist rants; they aren't asking to fart loudly at the table; other whatever other strawmen you posted above.

But what if the host finds prayer more offensive than farting?

You don’t care. You think your beliefs are paramount and screw everyone else’s, even in their home.

You are a bad and selfish person.

In our family, if someone tooted at the table we would probably all giggle. If someone started sincerely praying we'd look at them like they have three heads. One is a normal bodily function, the other...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

DP. I'm not scared of it, but I do think it's extremely rude for a guest to ask others to do it. If a guest asked, I'd probably quieting go along with it - obviously not bowing head or closing eyes - and rethink the guest list for next time.

So no guest has ever asked you if they can lead a prayer in your home? Why are you so outraged over something that has never happened?

Because the OP said that her DH’s family comes over and insists on prayers before meals. So I am trying to think about how I would feel about that - and the answer is annoyed because it’s rude to ask.

I have had people give a prayer before a meal without asking. I was annoyed and we stopped inviting them.

Who did that in your home, and why did you ban them from your home? You couldn’t talk to them privately and ask them to not pray in your home because you don’t like it? Did they know you are an atheist? Were they family or friends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I actually have someone just starting prayers before a meal without in our home. It was very rude and I was annoyed. We don't ask that family to join us anymore.

I would probably be quiet, but I wouldn't bow my head or anything like that. If it was taking a long time and everyone was at the table and served their food I might start eating. Or take a sip of my drink while rolling my eyes with the other people who have their eyes open.

What family did that, at what occasion? You banned what family members from your home for praying? Do other family members ask why certain people aren’t allowed in your home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

There would be no throwing out, because I would never invite someone dumb enough to believe in the first place. Literally no one in my family or social circle believes in god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

Except the assorted atheists say “if” a guest would ask, because their guests don’t ask. It’s an imaginary problem. Atheists spend hours being mad and outraged about imaginary scenarios.

Op even admits they are visiting in laws home (“Obviously not a hill to die on, but I dread it before we head down there”) and still frets about prayer in in laws home- where in laws are allowed to pray.

So the atheists posting say they have never had a guest ask to pray, and op is visiting Christian in laws and doesn’t want to be around praying family in their own home. Much ado about nothing. Apparently op’s problem is visiting family, and their prayers make them anxious. That’s an op problem, people are allowed to pray in their own home.

I haven’t seen one atheist post that they were hosting family and friends who insisted on praying; they post “if.”

One atheist did say they would (if the situation presented itself, which it hasn’t) tell a guest to shut up and eat, and followed up with “get the hell out of my house and go pray in a church,” which seems a huge overreaction and points to said atheist having anger and control issues, even with people they supposedly love.

No Christian posts that they invited family and friends to their home for a meal, and they insisted on everyone participating in a grace, blessing or prayer before the meal. No Christian has posted that an atheist guest objected to participating in the prayer and they told them to “shut up,” and then proceeded to kick the atheist guest out of their home. Why? Because Christians don’t have revenge fantasies about atheists, and play out scenarios in which such things happen. It’s pathological. The vast majority of people don’t have these kinds of issues. They don’t hate their family because of their religious beliefs or because they don’t have religious beliefs, or spend time plotting to destroy their relationships and holiday plans because of prayer.

I am sure this thread will continue, it’s definitely a place atheists post about the what ifs and express their outrage about their families and friends, which is disturbing. If you read this thread (please save yourself and do something better) you will see unresolved anger and control problems that atheists repeat over and over. I don’t see happy, content, or joyful atheists posting here. They are all unhappy and anxious and angry. Really it doesn’t seem like disbelief in God has made anything in their lives improve, because a holiday dinner with family is something they dread and have anxiety over. They resent and dislike their own families and friends, very sad.

Jesus hates you.

[Anonymous]

Why is it a problem to politely decline the praying? If someone did this in my house with my kids I would simply say, “no thank you” or “I’ll excuse us while you pray” and remove my kids from the prayer time until they are done. My mother in law got married in a Catholic Church and I just sat in the back with my son and didn’t participate. I don’t see the difference here. If they take offense and require you and your kids to participate, that’s a whole different problem.

[Anonymous]

Why are christians so against silent prayer? Why must it be loud and performative? Why must you draw attention to yourself? Does god like you better if he sees you making a big deal of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

Except the assorted atheists say “if” a guest would ask, because their guests don’t ask. It’s an imaginary problem. Atheists spend hours being mad and outraged about imaginary scenarios.

Op even admits they are visiting in laws home (“Obviously not a hill to die on, but I dread it before we head down there”) and still frets about prayer in in laws home- where in laws are allowed to pray.

So the atheists posting say they have never had a guest ask to pray, and op is visiting Christian in laws and doesn’t want to be around praying family in their own home. Much ado about nothing. Apparently op’s problem is visiting family, and their prayers make them anxious. That’s an op problem, people are allowed to pray in their own home.

I haven’t seen one atheist post that they were hosting family and friends who insisted on praying; they post “if.”

One atheist did say they would (if the situation presented itself, which it hasn’t) tell a guest to shut up and eat, and followed up with “get the hell out of my house and go pray in a church,” which seems a huge overreaction and points to said atheist having anger and control issues, even with people they supposedly love.

No Christian posts that they invited family and friends to their home for a meal, and they insisted on everyone participating in a grace, blessing or prayer before the meal. No Christian has posted that an atheist guest objected to participating in the prayer and they told them to “shut up,” and then proceeded to kick the atheist guest out of their home. Why? Because Christians don’t have revenge fantasies about atheists, and play out scenarios in which such things happen. It’s pathological. The vast majority of people don’t have these kinds of issues. They don’t hate their family because of their religious beliefs or because they don’t have religious beliefs, or spend time plotting to destroy their relationships and holiday plans because of prayer.

I am sure this thread will continue, it’s definitely a place atheists post about the what ifs and express their outrage about their families and friends, which is disturbing. If you read this thread (please save yourself and do something better) you will see unresolved anger and control problems that atheists repeat over and over. I don’t see happy, content, or joyful atheists posting here. They are all unhappy and anxious and angry. Really it doesn’t seem like disbelief in God has made anything in their lives improve, because a holiday dinner with family is something they dread and have anxiety over. They resent and dislike their own families and friends, very sad.

You certainly have a lot to say.

I'm guessing OP and her guests have moved on. Op likely won't be back to see the tirade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

Except the assorted atheists say “if” a guest would ask, because their guests don’t ask. It’s an imaginary problem. Atheists spend hours being mad and outraged about imaginary scenarios.

Op even admits they are visiting in laws home (“Obviously not a hill to die on, but I dread it before we head down there”) and still frets about prayer in in laws home- where in laws are allowed to pray.

So the atheists posting say they have never had a guest ask to pray, and op is visiting Christian in laws and doesn’t want to be around praying family in their own home. Much ado about nothing. Apparently op’s problem is visiting family, and their prayers make them anxious. That’s an op problem, people are allowed to pray in their own home.

I haven’t seen one atheist post that they were hosting family and friends who insisted on praying; they post “if.”

One atheist did say they would (if the situation presented itself, which it hasn’t) tell a guest to shut up and eat, and followed up with “get the hell out of my house and go pray in a church,” which seems a huge overreaction and points to said atheist having anger and control issues, even with people they supposedly love.

No Christian posts that they invited family and friends to their home for a meal, and they insisted on everyone participating in a grace, blessing or prayer before the meal. No Christian has posted that an atheist guest objected to participating in the prayer and they told them to “shut up,” and then proceeded to kick the atheist guest out of their home. Why? Because Christians don’t have revenge fantasies about atheists, and play out scenarios in which such things happen. It’s pathological. The vast majority of people don’t have these kinds of issues. They don’t hate their family because of their religious beliefs or because they don’t have religious beliefs, or spend time plotting to destroy their relationships and holiday plans because of prayer.

I am sure this thread will continue, it’s definitely a place atheists post about the what ifs and express their outrage about their families and friends, which is disturbing. If you read this thread (please save yourself and do something better) you will see unresolved anger and control problems that atheists repeat over and over. I don’t see happy, content, or joyful atheists posting here. They are all unhappy and anxious and angry. Really it doesn’t seem like disbelief in God has made anything in their lives improve, because a holiday dinner with family is something they dread and have anxiety over. They resent and dislike their own families and friends, very sad.

Jesus hates you.

Jesus loves you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

There would be no throwing out, because I would never invite someone dumb enough to believe in the first place. Literally no one in my family or social circle believes in god.

Like President and Dr Jill Biden?

President and Mrs. Obama?

These guys?
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)
Ernst haeckel (1834 - 1919)
Ernest schrodinger (1887 - 1961)
Francis bacon (1561 - 1626)
Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642)
Gregor Mendel (1822 - 1884)
Guglielmo Marconi (1874 - 1937)

51% of scientists believe in a God. According to a 2009 Pew Research Center survey, American scientists are about half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher, universal power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

There would be no throwing out, because I would never invite someone dumb enough to believe in the first place. Literally no one in my family or social circle believes in god.

Like President and Dr Jill Biden?

President and Mrs. Obama?

These guys?
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662)
Ernst haeckel (1834 - 1919)
Ernest schrodinger (1887 - 1961)
Francis bacon (1561 - 1626)
Galileo Galilei (1564 - 1642)
Gregor Mendel (1822 - 1884)
Guglielmo Marconi (1874 - 1937)

51% of scientists believe in a God. According to a 2009 Pew Research Center survey, American scientists are about half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher, universal power.

You can believe in god and not pray before every meal

Or not pray at some one else’s house

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

THis is not a big issue, OP. Just bow your head and move on. you don't need to crowd source this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

THis is not a big issue, OP. Just bow your head and move on. you don't need to crowd source this

No need