Visiting family - Prayers before meals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

Are atheists scared of prayer, even when it’s their family members or friends praying? Why is it so important that friends and family don’t say grace in your presence? I am a Christian and often at family meals when someone is praying and we have bowed heads, I look around to watch my family in prayer and am thankful we are all healthy and together. I have seen non-praying family members sitting quietly and we share a smile. It’s totally a moment of gratitude, and expression of love for family and friends. I don’t know why atheists are against it. It doesn’t hurt them. No one makes anyone participate. It seems like an issue that drives a wedge between families unnecessarily. No one has ever yelled at me for looking around during prayer.

DP. I'm not scared of it, but I do think it's extremely rude for a guest to ask others to do it. If a guest asked, I'd probably quieting go along with it - obviously not bowing head or closing eyes - and rethink the guest list for next time.

So no guest has ever asked you if they can lead a prayer in your home? Why are you so outraged over something that has never happened?

Because the OP said that her DH’s family comes over and insists on prayers before meals. So I am trying to think about how I would feel about that - and the answer is annoyed because it’s rude to ask.

We have muslim friends who asked to pray in our house (they bring their carpet and I would walk them to the office or guest room for privacy), not a big deal. If my Christian friend asks to pray at the table, I will gladly accommodate them. If my Jewish friends ask for kosher meal, I will be happy to do so. That what family and friends for.

Do you have a kosher kitchen that you could cook a kosher meal in? With my friends who are strictly kosher we eat out in kosher restaurants. Because there's no way I, who am not Jewish and don't have a kosher-certified kitchen, can cook a kosher meal.

pp probably meant purchasing a premade kosher meal to accommodate Jewish guests. My SIL keeps kosher and that’s what we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

[Anonymous]

I am not religious at all, but if this were a common occurrence in my get-togethers, I think I would at some point ask to lead grace and say what Sister Anges in this lovely piece said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/22/dining/thanksgiving-lessons.html

First she thanked the Lord, naturally. Then she thanked the farmers who planted the seeds and the farmworkers who harvested the food that had made our lunch together possible. Then the packers who prepared it for its journey. Then the truckers who delivered the food, the cook who turned it into our feast and the waiter who brought it to the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

And now this thread may be declared over, as we see the double-standard displayed prominently and the quiet part said out loud.

Your beliefs have merit and value, but mine do not. Even in my own home.

I knew you thought that. I will give you credit for admitting your prejudice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

Really? The protestants raise heck during dinner because someone prays a way they don’t like? What denomination? Where did this happen? You witnessed it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

And now this thread may be declared over, as we see the double-standard displayed prominently and the quiet part said out loud.

Your beliefs have merit and value, but mine do not. Even in my own home.

I knew you thought that. I will give you credit for admitting your prejudice.

You aren’t talking about your beliefs, you don’t have any. You want to tell people you are having dinner with that you don’t have evidence for their beliefs. You think that’s a good thing to do why? Why would you think it’s a good idea to insult your friends and family? God isn’t subject to natural evidence, so your argument is pointless. And that’s what you are trying to do, start an argument. You want to have a debate about beliefs. That’s not saying grace and blessing the food and people present. No normal person wants to insult their friends and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

And now this thread may be declared over, as we see the double-standard displayed prominently and the quiet part said out loud.

Your beliefs have merit and value, but mine do not. Even in my own home.

I knew you thought that. I will give you credit for admitting your prejudice.

You don’t have beliefs. You can say you don’t believe, but you can’t say others don’t have evidence for their beliefs. They do- you just don’t accept that they do. There is no quiet part- everyone knows atheists don’t believe in God. You are welcome to not believe, but you can’t tell others their beliefs are incorrect or lacking evidence. Lots of evidence exists.

You are intellectually dishonest and declaring the thread “over” isn’t a thing. You don’t decide when a topic is “over.”

If you invite people to your home and decide to go on a rant about not having evidence for God, why even invite people to your home? To lecture them? Tell them they are stupid? What’s your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

Really? The protestants raise heck during dinner because someone prays a way they don’t like? What denomination? Where did this happen? You witnessed it?

DH has extended family members, Presbyterians and Evangelicals among them, who absolutely do not approve of Catholicism and think that the "hail Mary" prayer is the equivalent of having false idols. They also don't approve of non-Christians, but they come into less contact with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

Really? The protestants raise heck during dinner because someone prays a way they don’t like? What denomination? Where did this happen? You witnessed it?

DH has extended family members, Presbyterians and Evangelicals among them, who absolutely do not approve of Catholicism and think that the "hail Mary" prayer is the equivalent of having false idols. They also don't approve of non-Christians, but they come into less contact with them.

And they have disrupted family dinners over a Catholic saying grace?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

You might really have some cold food then, lol.

Also you know you are an outlier, right? I know protestants who get upset about prayers that invoke Mary or the saints.

And that is why Americans so fat, you worry more about how to stuff your stomach rather than how to feed your soul.