Visiting family - Prayers before meals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't take 10 seconds to give thanks for the bountiful food on the table?

OP, why did you marry your husband? He went to church and attended church schools and grew up in a religious home.

For 1000's of years people farmed and knew feast and famine. Grace is a thank you for the food on the table.

It isn't 10 seconds. Op says they can get quite lengthy.

What is the harm if it is 10 min? You certainly can do a yoga class for one hour.

Nobody is praying for 10 minutes at a dinner. Pastors don’t pray that long in church.

It’s disgusting that people lie and exaggerate to cause issues about non-issues.

Nobody should be having anxiety about this and nobody should equate a religious belief with a rude bodily function, racism, etc. How old are these posters?

I should be surprised but the thread about a man being stalked, harassed, threatened, and his family threatened with torture and deportation, and insults about intelligence and social class (on repeated occasions) was removed after several posters didn’t see a problem. Atheists have no problem with harassment and threats and insults to religious people just minding their own business at work, but grace before a family meal is the complete enemy of humanity. Total bs.

WTH are you on about??

You probably ran to the mod like a cranky toddler and whined until it was deleted. You fool no one- except yourself, and that’s tenuous.

You'd be wrong on that one. Whatever you are babbling about has nothing to do with this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

^^this is the quiet part out loud.

atheists: we simply don’t believe in God! That’s it! And we don’t need a higher power to threaten us to be kind and decent people! We do that because we instinctively know how to do those things. religious people are the jerks, they don’t like anyone who is different than they are.

But then an atheist describes how they would tell a guest to shut up, and throw that guest out of their house if they wanted to pray.

that’s the quiet part out loud.

IN. THEIR. OWN. HOUSE.

You still don’t get it.

It’s the angry atheist again You are ok with telling a guest to shut up and kicking them out of your home because they want to pray at thanksgiving?

If I invite an atheist to my home, can I insist they pray with me at dinner, and if they refuse, should I kick them out of my house?

(I would not nor have I ever treated a guest in my home of any religion or of no religion that way. Ever. Never ever.)

But apparently, if our guests dare not do as we say- gtfo!

Religion aside- who tells a guest to “shut up” and tosses them from a dinner party for praying at dinner?

[Anonymous]

Ho hum. The mighty athiest hunter is here to derail another thread.

Thanksgiving is over. Op hasn't been back. People possibly moved on with every day life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ho hum. The mighty athiest hunter is here to derail another thread.

Thanksgiving is over. Op hasn't been back. People possibly moved on with every day life.

Atheists made themselves look terrible on this thread of their own volition. They are the ones posting about kicking people out of their homes at family dinners and being in danger from their own families because of their atheism.

I haven’t seen a single post written by a Christian detailing how they would tell an atheist to shut up or kick them out of their home.

A pp atheist stated that their life was in danger for being an atheist, among other troubling statements.

A pp atheist declared that their contribution to family thanksgiving would be a 5 minute rant about how there’s no evidence for God.

Then, breaking new ground, we have the atheist poster obsessed with comparing prayer to farting. Multiple posts. prayer = farting at family dinner. And made sure we all know they consider prayer at thanksgiving MORE OFFENSIVE than farting at family dinner.

-fart poster
-gurl you in danger poster
-shut up and gtho of my house poster
-let’s debate evidence at dinner so I can insult you poster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I haven’t seen a single post written by a Christian detailing how they would tell an atheist to shut up or kick them out of their home.

Well then you are a liar or a bad reader. Start with 21:44. Need more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I haven’t seen a single post written by a Christian detailing how they would tell an atheist to shut up or kick them out of their home.

Well then you are a liar or a bad reader. Start with 21:44. Need more?

It's probably best not to engage. Pp doesn't give up until the thread gets locked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

I don't think you can actually stop them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

It's rude to start eating before others, grace or not. But since atheists only have this life, we must not deny them their immediate need for gratification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

Except the assorted atheists say “if” a guest would ask, because their guests don’t ask. It’s an imaginary problem. Atheists spend hours being mad and outraged about imaginary scenarios.

Op even admits they are visiting in laws home (“Obviously not a hill to die on, but I dread it before we head down there”) and still frets about prayer in in laws home- where in laws are allowed to pray.

So the atheists posting say they have never had a guest ask to pray, and op is visiting Christian in laws and doesn’t want to be around praying family in their own home. Much ado about nothing. Apparently op’s problem is visiting family, and their prayers make them anxious. That’s an op problem, people are allowed to pray in their own home.

I haven’t seen one atheist post that they were hosting family and friends who insisted on praying; they post “if.”

One atheist did say they would (if the situation presented itself, which it hasn’t) tell a guest to shut up and eat, and followed up with “get the hell out of my house and go pray in a church,” which seems a huge overreaction and points to said atheist having anger and control issues, even with people they supposedly love.

No Christian posts that they invited family and friends to their home for a meal, and they insisted on everyone participating in a grace, blessing or prayer before the meal. No Christian has posted that an atheist guest objected to participating in the prayer and they told them to “shut up,” and then proceeded to kick the atheist guest out of their home. Why? Because Christians don’t have revenge fantasies about atheists, and play out scenarios in which such things happen. It’s pathological. The vast majority of people don’t have these kinds of issues. They don’t hate their family because of their religious beliefs or because they don’t have religious beliefs, or spend time plotting to destroy their relationships and holiday plans because of prayer.

I am sure this thread will continue, it’s definitely a place atheists post about the what ifs and express their outrage about their families and friends, which is disturbing. If you read this thread (please save yourself and do something better) you will see unresolved anger and control problems that atheists repeat over and over. I don’t see happy, content, or joyful atheists posting here. They are all unhappy and anxious and angry. Really it doesn’t seem like disbelief in God has made anything in their lives improve, because a holiday dinner with family is something they dread and have anxiety over. They resent and dislike their own families and friends, very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

As this thread clearly shows, some guests are rude. As a host, you must be reasonable until they leave. Don't invite them back.

Except the assorted atheists say “if” a guest would ask, because their guests don’t ask. It’s an imaginary problem. Atheists spend hours being mad and outraged about imaginary scenarios.

Op even admits they are visiting in laws home (“Obviously not a hill to die on, but I dread it before we head down there”) and still frets about prayer in in laws home- where in laws are allowed to pray.

So the atheists posting say they have never had a guest ask to pray, and op is visiting Christian in laws and doesn’t want to be around praying family in their own home. Much ado about nothing. Apparently op’s problem is visiting family, and their prayers make them anxious. That’s an op problem, people are allowed to pray in their own home.

I haven’t seen one atheist post that they were hosting family and friends who insisted on praying; they post “if.”

One atheist did say they would (if the situation presented itself, which it hasn’t) tell a guest to shut up and eat, and followed up with “get the hell out of my house and go pray in a church,” which seems a huge overreaction and points to said atheist having anger and control issues, even with people they supposedly love.

No Christian posts that they invited family and friends to their home for a meal, and they insisted on everyone participating in a grace, blessing or prayer before the meal. No Christian has posted that an atheist guest objected to participating in the prayer and they told them to “shut up,” and then proceeded to kick the atheist guest out of their home. Why? Because Christians don’t have revenge fantasies about atheists, and play out scenarios in which such things happen. It’s pathological. The vast majority of people don’t have these kinds of issues. They don’t hate their family because of their religious beliefs or because they don’t have religious beliefs, or spend time plotting to destroy their relationships and holiday plans because of prayer.

I am sure this thread will continue, it’s definitely a place atheists post about the what ifs and express their outrage about their families and friends, which is disturbing. If you read this thread (please save yourself and do something better) you will see unresolved anger and control problems that atheists repeat over and over. I don’t see happy, content, or joyful atheists posting here. They are all unhappy and anxious and angry. Really it doesn’t seem like disbelief in God has made anything in their lives improve, because a holiday dinner with family is something they dread and have anxiety over. They resent and dislike their own families and friends, very sad.

You certainly have a lot to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ho hum. The mighty athiest hunter is here to derail another thread.

Thanksgiving is over. Op hasn't been back. People possibly moved on with every day life.

'Tis the season!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

It is here that we disagree. I think it would be rude for the guest to ask permission for a group prayer at someone else’s house. It puts the host in an awkward position and the host would be well within societal bounds to respond with “oh we don’t do that at our house but I love the tradition when we visit you!” I see nothing wrong at all with the guest saying a silent prayer before they start eating.

+1 million

Why would a guest even ask that? So rude.

So you are another poster who has never had the experience of a guest asking to lead a prayer in your home- but just the mere suggestion that it could possibly happen is upsetting to you.

Do you think an atheist attending a dinner with family in the family’s home should refrain from eating until grace has been said, on the basis of good manners? Is it rude to eat while others pray?

I am not atheist but rather belong to a religion that does not do prayers before dinner. My DH’s family does say grace before dinner. None of them have ever asked me or DH if they could say grace at our table in our home. I would think it rude if they did. But they are lovely people and it would never occur to them too ask.

I visit my ILs home often. They pray before dinner. I just sit there quietly and expect my children (their grandchildren) to do the same.

This stuff is not hard if you don’t make it hard.

+1 I think those who are militantly opposed to this stuff are few and far between. They have issues with their family, and aren’t accepting of their friends as many have stated they would not invite a friend back to their home if they asked to pray.

I think they are people without manners. They lack respect and seem to think eating while their friends and loved ones are saying grace is acceptable, and proudly state they would grab for a jalapeño popper while declaring God doesn’t exist, or fill their plates and eat while others are saying grace because they prepared all the food.

Bad manners and lack of basic respect for loved ones and friends, equals toxic and immature. No adult I have ever been acquainted with acted like this. I think these people are either highly un-self-aware or trolling.

If I prepared all the food then the grace should probably be about thanking ME! I didn’t see Jesus in the kitchen, peeling potatoes or basting the turkey.

That’s what thanksgiving is about. ME!

It’s about the food. Shut up and eat. I’d you want to pray, get the hell out of my house and go to church.

No, it’s about gathering as a family and being thankful. The food is great, but being with people who love you and care about you is really the important part. You apparently don’t have that in your life, and your sour and bitter attitude is the result. You don’t have any human kindness or respect for other people, and that’s why people don’t like atheists like you. It has nothing to do with your disbelief in God, and everything to do with your lack of respect and manners. (There are atheists who are kind and respectful, but you are not one of them.)

What about believers who aren't being thankful for their friends and family? Or aren't kind or respectful? Are they also disliked? Why is that an "atheist" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

That would be silly. But I could see an atheist expressing wonder and appreciation for the world and humanity, without invoking any kind of deity as being responsible for it.

+1

My extended family is mostly atheists. We generally go around say what we're thankful for. It's quick though. And nothing supernatural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pick your battles. They’re your in laws. You don’t live with them and probably don’t see them every week. Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”

This.

Really?? Just think about something else while your head is bowed in “prayer.”?

Replace the word "prayer" with anything else you might be offended by in your home.

Just think about something else while they Hail Satan.

Just think about something else while they say racist stuff.

Just think about something else while they fart loudly.

Just think about something else while they complain about the food you cooked.

No, you wouldn't sit for any of that other stuff without comment, would you? So why does insisting someone who does not want to pray participate in prayer get a pass? This is not a legal/constitutional issue, as government is not involved.

If you think prayer is racism, you might have an issue with categorical thinking.

Both can be offensive to some people and not to others, correct?

But you keep straw-manning until you have a reasonable response.

DP. Calm down. Equating prayer with racism, in terms of their ability to offend snowflake you, is bonkers.

I did not equate them, I said some people are offended by either.

But no worries. Just pull that example and equate it with farting at the table.

“But it’s my legal right to fart! You can’t tell me not to fart or when or where I can fart!”

It would be just as impolite to fart at the dinner table as not allowing other guests a moment of prayer.

I know the social graces are lost on most of the posters to DCUM who are "In it to win it" and need to start shoveling the food into their mouths when the plates hit the table.

Can we at least agree what we are talking about?

I agree that you generally go with whatever the host wants. And if that is grace before dinner, great.

Do you agree that if the family gathering happens at a home that does not say grace before dinner, guests cannot impose their desire for prayers on the host? Like if thanksgiving was at the son’s house, the son and his wife should decide if they will say a prayer and not the parents?

It would be rude for guests to begin prayer without requesting permission from the host. It would be rude for the host to deny them permission because the request is not unreasonable or even unexpected. You might remember that the majority of Americans have some religious beliefs.

DP you might remember that those religious beliefs are often quite different from one another. What if the person asks to say a prayer is an evangelist who is sure to start talking about Jesus our savior while your Hindu and Jewish guests sit uncomfortably having to pretend they believe in that? Would YOU sit quietly with your head bowed and say amen if a pagan started giving praise to Brighid and Lugh?

Anyone is free to pray at any time silently. There is nothing wrong with that.

if a guest asked to say a prayer I would say if anyone wants to take a moment to silently say grace please feel free.

I like listening to other religions pray. Each religion present should pray and we all respect each other’s faith. Easy and inclusive.

Great! Does that include someone who sees no evidence for god and wants to tell you that for 5 minutes before you eat?

No, because someone talking about their disbelief has no value to add to a meal with family and friends. A grace or blessing is an accepted tradition; what is accomplished by an atheist telling everyone they believe in nothing?

Meh. If you are OK with people expressing belief then you should be OK with people expressing disbelief.