Just accepting unequal division of labor

[Anonymous]

If you divorced him, he would magically find a way to remember how to do these things.

He is lazy.

And you are making excuses for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Same girl, same.

Who makes more money? The other party( regardless of sex) should do more unpaid labor. The golden rule in my house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And remember that he may need things that are routine and really obvious to you, spelled out for him, and reiterated several times.

Crazy.

This, folks, is why you shouldn't medicate and coddle your kids with executive functioning deficits. Stop with the special treatment in school and at home. Because then they grow up to be adults who can't carry their own weight. They need to learn how to succeed on their own, and that takes hard work and brute force a lot of times, and you cannot expect a spouse to run a 504 plan for another spouse, especially when kids are involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same girl, same.

Who makes more money? The other party( regardless of sex) should do more unpaid labor. The golden rule in my house.

I disagree. The person who works more should do less at home so that the overall work (work + home) is roughly equivalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you two sat down together each day and divided what needed to be done, would he be able to do it?

I'm the ADHD spouse and I make myself daily lists of what I need to do. DH and I also sit down weekly to discuss the upcoming week and who is doing what when (dinner, taking DS to practice, etc).

My lists are pretty much the only way I'm able to function. I put EVERYTHING on there, even just emptying the dishwasher.

+1

I know it’s not fair to my spouse, but I make it clear that I absolutely need them to TELL me what to do, and then I will do it. It’s not fun for me either and I am trying my best. I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me!

You…hope your spouse doesn’t resent you for knowingly treating them unfairly? That’s not ADHD that’s delusional.

There are about 100 ways you can manage executive function without expecting your spouse to do it for you.

Yes I hope my spouse doesn’t resent me for not being as capable in as many ways as they are. They certainly don’t seem to. I put forth a good faith effort every day and do what I can, but I still struggle. And I am trying all sorts of strategies to manage my mental health issues, but in the meantime my spouse actually tries to HELP ME. But, my spouse is not a petty scorekeeper like so many of the folks posting their complaints here.

I wonder if some of you would treat your kids this way. Do you think there is some magic age where all mental health issues disappear, or are suddenly no longer issues that people struggle with or suffer from, but are instead now conscious choices to be lazy and worthless? And do you know what’s ALSO exhausting? Having a mental health issue! Maybe try a little compassion?

Do you see how silly the comparison is to a child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

+1000 I think this is the crux of it for a lot of families (and I do not believe that ALL of these DHs have ADHD). I think women generally have higher standards for things like healthy meals, kid enrichment, clean and organized home.

So a lot of these men aren't shirking in their minds; they just think their wives should chill out more instead of they should be stepping up and doing more. And honestly? Sometimes they might be right. Sometimes.

Ok, then what’s a basic baseline for your house, yard, child-raising?

And should only one parent keep to the baseline or both? Or equal amounts of time at baseline and below baseline.

Let’s assume no above baseline so F nutrition, bedtimes, fancy ECs, and supplementing at home. Just let the Tiger Parents win that one.

It's interesting to me that people will write this dynamic off as "well she just has higher standards, that's not his fault" but WHY do so many women have higher standards of cleanliness, nutrition, organization, timeliness, etc., than their husbands? This explanation acts as though women collectively are just unrealistic about what needs to be done or how well it has to be done, but what if, as a society, we just decided to live down to the standards of all these men? What would society look like? Dirty houses, kids late for school 3/5 days, no vacations because nothing gets planned, meals mostly fast food or whatever can be thrown together last minute, schools bare bones and no fundraising or extra programming because no PTA at all (be honest, what percent of your PTA is men versus women, and what percent of the men are there WITH their wives and not in instead of them), and so on.

Like it's easy to roll our eyes at women and say "ugh, chill out, your standards are too high." But then we all collectively benefit from women who decided that the bare minimum wasn't good enough. Do you REALLY want to live in a world designed by a man who thinks most things can be put off or not done at all if it means he gets to spend more time playing video games?

You have just reverse engineered the formerly long-standing idea that women, by nature, are suited towards tending the home and the domestic sphere of influence, which in turn, makes the world a better place to live.

To rail against nature and expect men to act as women is an exercise in futility. As evidenced by all the women in this thread who keep trying, and failing at it. The answer is literally right there in your face.

Are you arguing that the solution is for women to just stay at home and not work? If so, I respect the point of view but it’s not realistic for most families especially now so women should just stop asking for help from men? I don’t think that’s the solution either.

It’s not fair that women are being asked to compensate for broken society. Food system full of junk food? Just plan healthy meals and prep them every day! School rundown? Just join the PTO and plan lots of enrichment.

It never ends. We don’t have a safety net we have women.

No, but a good idea would be to drop the rope on the compulsion to be breadwinner 4 times over just for “fulfillment” and “independence” that leaves a woman burnt out on both ends. It’s certainly a difficult conundrum, but we have to start where we can and work with our strengths, not labor upstream against them. We must deal with the world as it is, not as we dream it could be.

So, are you saying that women should never have time-consuming jobs outside the house? Can men have jobs that bring in 4 times the salary just for "fulfillment" and "independence"?

My husband is exactly as capable as I am of doing everything for our children, house, and pets. Other than giving birth, he's done it all (our twins were formula-fed because of their premature birth). He fed them as babies. I fed them as babies. He feeds them as third graders. I feed them as third graders. He can do laundry. I can do laundry. He can read a calendar. I can read a calendar.

Stop enabling these helpless man babies and stop showing them family dynamics where it's fine if they come home from work and then do nothing else around the house.

Well right there you just mentioned a major inequality—you can give birth and he can’t. You fed them in their infant years, he fed them once they were older and less helpless. The crux of my argument is that it is almost always the case that women will end up with a so-called inequal load, in some way, in the home. It’s just a fact of reality. It’s up to each individual person how they will deal with that fact of reality—some women mommy track, and some women intuitively understand this and avoid marriage and children altogether in order to pursue those time-intensive goals. A valid choice, and IMO better for her than running herself ragged trying to “have it all”.

Life is about tradeoffs for everyone, male and female. I would advise a man who is killing himself working a high-flying job at the expense of the well-being of his wife and children to do the same—take a step back. But that’s a different conversation for another thread.

Sorry, disregard the fed them older thing, I skipped a part reading obviously

DP. Actually it shows why you are making excuses for your preconceived order of things. Because you know quite well that the issues related to birth are so time limited.

I think it’s about power and perception. OP makes 4x her husband; she has much power in her relationship than she is willing to exert. I find that most women are not willing to exert power because they want their husbands to still think of them as nice and feminine. They will take fake harmony over making waves. I don’t worry about such things, so I may be more of a harpy but I don’t have the issues that flood this thread.

No one in a marriage should think they have more power, let alone feel entitled to “exert” that power, simply because they make more money. That is a completely unhealthy and borderline abusive dynamic. And if that’s how you feel relationships should function then you should simply not get married.

There is a power dynamic in every relationship. You can claim agency over your life or you can pretend you are trapped with a partner who is unable to manage the children, house, or earn money. You may not like the phrase “exert power,” but I absolutely recognize that I (and many others) have options. Some of those options come from earning power. Men implicitly recognize this. No one would ever say a man who recognizes it shouldn’t get married. But you say I, a woman who recognizes it, shouldn’t be married. I guess you just focus on nice and feminine for women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

+1000 I think this is the crux of it for a lot of families (and I do not believe that ALL of these DHs have ADHD). I think women generally have higher standards for things like healthy meals, kid enrichment, clean and organized home.

So a lot of these men aren't shirking in their minds; they just think their wives should chill out more instead of they should be stepping up and doing more. And honestly? Sometimes they might be right. Sometimes.

Ok, then what’s a basic baseline for your house, yard, child-raising?

And should only one parent keep to the baseline or both? Or equal amounts of time at baseline and below baseline.

Let’s assume no above baseline so F nutrition, bedtimes, fancy ECs, and supplementing at home. Just let the Tiger Parents win that one.

It's interesting to me that people will write this dynamic off as "well she just has higher standards, that's not his fault" but WHY do so many women have higher standards of cleanliness, nutrition, organization, timeliness, etc., than their husbands? This explanation acts as though women collectively are just unrealistic about what needs to be done or how well it has to be done, but what if, as a society, we just decided to live down to the standards of all these men? What would society look like? Dirty houses, kids late for school 3/5 days, no vacations because nothing gets planned, meals mostly fast food or whatever can be thrown together last minute, schools bare bones and no fundraising or extra programming because no PTA at all (be honest, what percent of your PTA is men versus women, and what percent of the men are there WITH their wives and not in instead of them), and so on.

Like it's easy to roll our eyes at women and say "ugh, chill out, your standards are too high." But then we all collectively benefit from women who decided that the bare minimum wasn't good enough. Do you REALLY want to live in a world designed by a man who thinks most things can be put off or not done at all if it means he gets to spend more time playing video games?

You have just reverse engineered the formerly long-standing idea that women, by nature, are suited towards tending the home and the domestic sphere of influence, which in turn, makes the world a better place to live.

To rail against nature and expect men to act as women is an exercise in futility. As evidenced by all the women in this thread who keep trying, and failing at it. The answer is literally right there in your face.

Are you arguing that the solution is for women to just stay at home and not work? If so, I respect the point of view but it’s not realistic for most families especially now so women should just stop asking for help from men? I don’t think that’s the solution either.

It’s not fair that women are being asked to compensate for broken society. Food system full of junk food? Just plan healthy meals and prep them every day! School rundown? Just join the PTO and plan lots of enrichment.

It never ends. We don’t have a safety net we have women.

No, but a good idea would be to drop the rope on the compulsion to be breadwinner 4 times over just for “fulfillment” and “independence” that leaves a woman burnt out on both ends. It’s certainly a difficult conundrum, but we have to start where we can and work with our strengths, not labor upstream against them. We must deal with the world as it is, not as we dream it could be.

So, are you saying that women should never have time-consuming jobs outside the house? Can men have jobs that bring in 4 times the salary just for "fulfillment" and "independence"?

My husband is exactly as capable as I am of doing everything for our children, house, and pets. Other than giving birth, he's done it all (our twins were formula-fed because of their premature birth). He fed them as babies. I fed them as babies. He feeds them as third graders. I feed them as third graders. He can do laundry. I can do laundry. He can read a calendar. I can read a calendar.

Stop enabling these helpless man babies and stop showing them family dynamics where it's fine if they come home from work and then do nothing else around the house.

Well right there you just mentioned a major inequality—you can give birth and he can’t. You fed them in their infant years, he fed them once they were older and less helpless. The crux of my argument is that it is almost always the case that women will end up with a so-called inequal load, in some way, in the home. It’s just a fact of reality. It’s up to each individual person how they will deal with that fact of reality—some women mommy track, and some women intuitively understand this and avoid marriage and children altogether in order to pursue those time-intensive goals. A valid choice, and IMO better for her than running herself ragged trying to “have it all”.

Life is about tradeoffs for everyone, male and female. I would advise a man who is killing himself working a high-flying job at the expense of the well-being of his wife and children to do the same—take a step back. But that’s a different conversation for another thread.

Sorry, disregard the fed them older thing, I skipped a part reading obviously

DP. Actually it shows why you are making excuses for your preconceived order of things. Because you know quite well that the issues related to birth are so time limited.

I think it’s about power and perception. OP makes 4x her husband; she has much power in her relationship than she is willing to exert. I find that most women are not willing to exert power because they want their husbands to still think of them as nice and feminine. They will take fake harmony over making waves. I don’t worry about such things, so I may be more of a harpy but I don’t have the issues that flood this thread.

Sorry.

Power is doing exactly what you want, when you want.

And if you wants are always 100% about you- not your kids, spouse or house - you are pretty f’d up and self-centered.

For example, Op does whatever he wants. Everyone and everything else be damned; he doesn’t care and can’t handle it. Everyone else can pick up the prices. Every day.

That’s power. Focusing only on yourself. Not caring about anything else. Not doing anything else for others. Dumping responsibilities on your spouse and kids all the time.

It’s power, and abusive.

Strawman. Who ever said anything about focusing only on yourself and not caring about anything else. Who is dumping responsibility on spouse and kids all time? Nice deflection though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

+1000 I think this is the crux of it for a lot of families (and I do not believe that ALL of these DHs have ADHD). I think women generally have higher standards for things like healthy meals, kid enrichment, clean and organized home.

So a lot of these men aren't shirking in their minds; they just think their wives should chill out more instead of they should be stepping up and doing more. And honestly? Sometimes they might be right. Sometimes.

Ok, then what’s a basic baseline for your house, yard, child-raising?

And should only one parent keep to the baseline or both? Or equal amounts of time at baseline and below baseline.

Let’s assume no above baseline so F nutrition, bedtimes, fancy ECs, and supplementing at home. Just let the Tiger Parents win that one.

It's interesting to me that people will write this dynamic off as "well she just has higher standards, that's not his fault" but WHY do so many women have higher standards of cleanliness, nutrition, organization, timeliness, etc., than their husbands? This explanation acts as though women collectively are just unrealistic about what needs to be done or how well it has to be done, but what if, as a society, we just decided to live down to the standards of all these men? What would society look like? Dirty houses, kids late for school 3/5 days, no vacations because nothing gets planned, meals mostly fast food or whatever can be thrown together last minute, schools bare bones and no fundraising or extra programming because no PTA at all (be honest, what percent of your PTA is men versus women, and what percent of the men are there WITH their wives and not in instead of them), and so on.

Like it's easy to roll our eyes at women and say "ugh, chill out, your standards are too high." But then we all collectively benefit from women who decided that the bare minimum wasn't good enough. Do you REALLY want to live in a world designed by a man who thinks most things can be put off or not done at all if it means he gets to spend more time playing video games?

Nobody wants to live in that world, including men, but they have learned from experience that women aren’t going to live in a pigsty and eat cereal for dinner, nor are women going to divorce and leave their kids 50% with a man who lives in a pigsty and eats cereal for dinner. It becomes a game of chicken like a PP said. Men don’t do it because they don’t have to.

then why do they do that and still expect respect or sx?

They think they are entitled to these things regardless of their behavior.

[Anonymous]

Pick partners wisely and discuss distribution of future responsibilities in clear details. Don't pick partners for physical or financial attraction but qualities you want in a husband and a father. People don't suddenly change unless they've a concussion or similar level damage to brain. Don't expect to change them. Don't marry without living with someone for a year. Don't get pregnant unless you are sure about your partner's parental capabilities or feel ready to be a single parent. Seek help from family, friends, clergy and therapists if needed. Separate if necessary. Divorce if nothing works out but don't assume having kids would fix anything. It would just complicate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you divorced him, he would magically find a way to remember how to do these things.

He is lazy.

And you are making excuses for him.

+1000. I am the ADHD spouse in my family (I’m the wife!) and I do about 60% of the housework and 100% of the cooking. He is LAZY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And remember that he may need things that are routine and really obvious to you, spelled out for him, and reiterated several times.

Crazy.

This, folks, is why you shouldn't medicate and coddle your kids with executive functioning deficits. Stop with the special treatment in school and at home. Because then they grow up to be adults who can't carry their own weight. They need to learn how to succeed on their own, and that takes hard work and brute force a lot of times, and you cannot expect a spouse to run a 504 plan for another spouse, especially when kids are involved.

+1, these people who think it's reasonable for an ADHD spouse to just rely 100% on their non-ADHD spouse to accommodate them are either young, deluded, or just found a codependent relationship that works for them. Most people are not going to be willing to do this. In fact, most will not be capable of it. My DH has poor executive functioning and mine is better. But guess what, mine is not perfect. I procrastinate, I struggle with motivation, I have write crap down in order to remember it. I've made mistakes. I'm not a machine. I may not have ADHD but I'm human and have a ton on my plate -- work, parenting, managing a chronic health issue, and issues with my extended family. I'm not low functioning but I'm not exactly high functioning either.

Sure, there might be SOME accommodation. I've accepted the fact that DH is just never going to plan a vacation or book a babysitter. He just won't. I can ask him but he doesn't know how and gets overwhelmed and then just won't. So that's an accommodation. But the day-to-day stuff -- helping with kids, helping with meals, cleaning, getting himself where he needs to be on time, paying attention to school deadlines, bills, etc.? Sorry, he's got to pull his weight. He uses phone reminders and some other tools. He volunteers for things that he finds easy or enjoyable (laundry, grocery shopping, cooking meals) which is great because then I can do other stuff and not feel resentful that he's making me assign him tasks or I'm going everything.

ADHD can be tricky but it does not exempt you from the responsibilities of being an adult. If you really think it does, best of luck to you when your spouse gets tired of dragging your dead weight around and divorces you, and then you have to do it all by yourself.

[Anonymous]

If you've ADHD, find someone with ADHD so you two understand each other. If you don't have it, don't marry someone with ADHD unless you love them and can live with possible shortcomings. Why make yours, theirs and children's lives difficult?

There are lot worse qualities in humans than being disorganized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And remember that he may need things that are routine and really obvious to you, spelled out for him, and reiterated several times.

Crazy.

This, folks, is why you shouldn't medicate and coddle your kids with executive functioning deficits. Stop with the special treatment in school and at home. Because then they grow up to be adults who can't carry their own weight. They need to learn how to succeed on their own, and that takes hard work and brute force a lot of times, and you cannot expect a spouse to run a 504 plan for another spouse, especially when kids are involved.

Make right choices when picking a spouse so you don't have a need to blame in-laws for your bad parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens if you assign him a list of chores (doing the executive function piece for him) each night so it’s not just you sitting there catching up while he unwinds?

For me that’s the thing that would just be unacceptable.

“I’m tired, I need to watch tv. I had a long day. I didn’t sleep well again. I was up early, working.”

DP, but this. There is always an excuse.

A lot of this comes down to a game of chicken where my DH is willing to let a lot of things about our kids and our home get REALLY bad before he would step in and actually take the lead on them. And even then, he'd start with "Hey I noticed the kids fingernails are really long and dirty, we should probably do something about that" before actually doing anything -- "we" in this case means me.

I think I'd have to get like a terminal disease before he'd actually rouse himself to do a lot of this stuff, and even then I know he'd panic and be telling me that he just could never in a million years figure out how to sign our kids up for summer camp on his own, can I do it?

I think if I died, he'd get his mom to come live with him. But she's almost 80.

I can't die.

+1000 I think this is the crux of it for a lot of families (and I do not believe that ALL of these DHs have ADHD). I think women generally have higher standards for things like healthy meals, kid enrichment, clean and organized home.

So a lot of these men aren't shirking in their minds; they just think their wives should chill out more instead of they should be stepping up and doing more. And honestly? Sometimes they might be right. Sometimes.

Ok, then what’s a basic baseline for your house, yard, child-raising?

And should only one parent keep to the baseline or both? Or equal amounts of time at baseline and below baseline.

Let’s assume no above baseline so F nutrition, bedtimes, fancy ECs, and supplementing at home. Just let the Tiger Parents win that one.

It's interesting to me that people will write this dynamic off as "well she just has higher standards, that's not his fault" but WHY do so many women have higher standards of cleanliness, nutrition, organization, timeliness, etc., than their husbands? This explanation acts as though women collectively are just unrealistic about what needs to be done or how well it has to be done, but what if, as a society, we just decided to live down to the standards of all these men? What would society look like? Dirty houses, kids late for school 3/5 days, no vacations because nothing gets planned, meals mostly fast food or whatever can be thrown together last minute, schools bare bones and no fundraising or extra programming because no PTA at all (be honest, what percent of your PTA is men versus women, and what percent of the men are there WITH their wives and not in instead of them), and so on.

Like it's easy to roll our eyes at women and say "ugh, chill out, your standards are too high." But then we all collectively benefit from women who decided that the bare minimum wasn't good enough. Do you REALLY want to live in a world designed by a man who thinks most things can be put off or not done at all if it means he gets to spend more time playing video games?

You have just reverse engineered the formerly long-standing idea that women, by nature, are suited towards tending the home and the domestic sphere of influence, which in turn, makes the world a better place to live.

To rail against nature and expect men to act as women is an exercise in futility. As evidenced by all the women in this thread who keep trying, and failing at it. The answer is literally right there in your face.

Are you arguing that the solution is for women to just stay at home and not work? If so, I respect the point of view but it’s not realistic for most families especially now so women should just stop asking for help from men? I don’t think that’s the solution either.

It’s not fair that women are being asked to compensate for broken society. Food system full of junk food? Just plan healthy meals and prep them every day! School rundown? Just join the PTO and plan lots of enrichment.

It never ends. We don’t have a safety net we have women.

No, but a good idea would be to drop the rope on the compulsion to be breadwinner 4 times over just for “fulfillment” and “independence” that leaves a woman burnt out on both ends. It’s certainly a difficult conundrum, but we have to start where we can and work with our strengths, not labor upstream against them. We must deal with the world as it is, not as we dream it could be.

So, are you saying that women should never have time-consuming jobs outside the house? Can men have jobs that bring in 4 times the salary just for "fulfillment" and "independence"?

My husband is exactly as capable as I am of doing everything for our children, house, and pets. Other than giving birth, he's done it all (our twins were formula-fed because of their premature birth). He fed them as babies. I fed them as babies. He feeds them as third graders. I feed them as third graders. He can do laundry. I can do laundry. He can read a calendar. I can read a calendar.

Stop enabling these helpless man babies and stop showing them family dynamics where it's fine if they come home from work and then do nothing else around the house.

Well right there you just mentioned a major inequality—you can give birth and he can’t. You fed them in their infant years, he fed them once they were older and less helpless. The crux of my argument is that it is almost always the case that women will end up with a so-called inequal load, in some way, in the home. It’s just a fact of reality. It’s up to each individual person how they will deal with that fact of reality—some women mommy track, and some women intuitively understand this and avoid marriage and children altogether in order to pursue those time-intensive goals. A valid choice, and IMO better for her than running herself ragged trying to “have it all”.

Life is about tradeoffs for everyone, male and female. I would advise a man who is killing himself working a high-flying job at the expense of the well-being of his wife and children to do the same—take a step back. But that’s a different conversation for another thread.

Sorry, disregard the fed them older thing, I skipped a part reading obviously

DP. Actually it shows why you are making excuses for your preconceived order of things. Because you know quite well that the issues related to birth are so time limited.

I think it’s about power and perception. OP makes 4x her husband; she has much power in her relationship than she is willing to exert. I find that most women are not willing to exert power because they want their husbands to still think of them as nice and feminine. They will take fake harmony over making waves. I don’t worry about such things, so I may be more of a harpy but I don’t have the issues that flood this thread.

No one in a marriage should think they have more power, let alone feel entitled to “exert” that power, simply because they make more money. That is a completely unhealthy and borderline abusive dynamic. And if that’s how you feel relationships should function then you should simply not get married.

There is a power dynamic in every relationship. You can claim agency over your life or you can pretend you are trapped with a partner who is unable to manage the children, house, or earn money. You may not like the phrase “exert power,” but I absolutely recognize that I (and many others) have options. Some of those options come from earning power. Men implicitly recognize this. No one would ever say a man who recognizes it shouldn’t get married. But you say I, a woman who recognizes it, shouldn’t be married. I guess you just focus on nice and feminine for women.

I don’t think you should get married because you clearly don’t understand or approve of the concept of marriage. Not because you have earning power.

Quite frankly you sound abusive and possibly insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you divorced him, he would magically find a way to remember how to do these things.

He is lazy.

And you are making excuses for him.

+1000. I am the ADHD spouse in my family (I’m the wife!) and I do about 60% of the housework and 100% of the cooking. He is LAZY.

I also have ADHD but I have a high salary, I do a lot of the housework, including 100% of children-related admin. DH plans our travel because I procrastinate. He catches bills I miss. But I definitely have never used ADHD as an excuse in our marriage. If anything, I've worked hard to create systems to get through life in a mostly organized manner so it doesn't wear on him.