Mink and Jawando propose to limit pull over offenses in Moco

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jawando iis ok with crime in the county and MCPS. He lives in a fancy expensive community and his kids are in private. He has his own little safety bubble and doesn't care how his decisions and recommendations impact others.

One could cynically wonder that about Thrive in his case too.

Moves from East County to Ashton- where they would never upzone anyway.

One could cynically wonder why y'all are jealous. I would never be jealous of somebody who lives way the heck out off New Hampshire Avenue where you have to drive a long way any time you want to go anywhere, but to each their own.

How do you get jealous from that?

If I wanted to live out there- I would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fine that there are a few of you here are fully "defund" "ACAB" etc. Thats your opinion.

But it puts you far outside of the mainstream in moco who literally just want safety and order.

And eventually it will show up at the ballot box.

Nobody has said that on this thread.

Overpolicing is antithetical to safety and order - assuming you're referring to safety and order for all, not just some.

Who is suggesting over-policing? It seems people just want policing and some attention paid to the rising crime / traffic deaths in the county.

This bill won’t pass. Not a chance. They reached too far into the absurd this time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

That's absurd. The bill does not endanger police. It prevents them from conducting traffic stops, which are dangerous to them, so in that respect it protects them

What you are saying is that but talking about and acknowledging problems with policing, they are endangering officers. I am sorry but the officers that abuse and harass Black people are the ones endangering their fellow officers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

That's absurd. The bill does not endanger police. It prevents them from conducting traffic stops, which are dangerous to them, so in that respect it protects them

What you are saying is that but talking about and acknowledging problems with policing, they are endangering officers. I am sorry but the officers that abuse and harass Black people are the ones endangering their fellow officers.

what officers are abusing and harassing black people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

That's absurd. The bill does not endanger police. It prevents them from conducting traffic stops, which are dangerous to them, so in that respect it protects them

What you are saying is that but talking about and acknowledging problems with policing, they are endangering officers. I am sorry but the officers that abuse and harass Black people are the ones endangering their fellow officers.

what officers are abusing and harassing black people?

There are hundreds of complaints every year, which internal affairs mostly does nothing about. But here's an example that became part of the public record: Case 8:19-cv-01265-PX Document 1 Filed 04/30/19 Page 1 of 55 https://www.washlaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Montgomery-County-Police-Complaint-4.30.2019.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

That's absurd. The bill does not endanger police. It prevents them from conducting traffic stops, which are dangerous to them, so in that respect it protects them

What you are saying is that but talking about and acknowledging problems with policing, they are endangering officers. I am sorry but the officers that abuse and harass Black people are the ones endangering their fellow officers.

what officers are abusing and harassing black people?

There are hundreds of complaints every year, which internal affairs mostly does nothing about. But here's an example that became part of the public record: Case 8:19-cv-01265-PX Document 1 Filed 04/30/19 Page 1 of 55 https://www.washlaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Montgomery-County-Police-Complaint-4.30.2019.pdf

this case was dismissed with prejudice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

That's absurd. The bill does not endanger police. It prevents them from conducting traffic stops, which are dangerous to them, so in that respect it protects them

What you are saying is that but talking about and acknowledging problems with policing, they are endangering officers. I am sorry but the officers that abuse and harass Black people are the ones endangering their fellow officers.

what officers are abusing and harassing black people?

There are hundreds of complaints every year, which internal affairs mostly does nothing about. But here's an example that became part of the public record: Case 8:19-cv-01265-PX Document 1 Filed 04/30/19 Page 1 of 55 https://www.washlaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Montgomery-County-Police-Complaint-4.30.2019.pdf

this case was dismissed with prejudice

The specific behavior alleged in this case, which was captured on body cameras, is below (including a link to video excerpts):
https://www.aclu-md.org/en/press-releases/montgomery-county-police-hold-african-american-family-hour-conduct-illegal-search

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

How does it endanger police officers if they are not allowed to pull drivers over for having tinted windows?

[Anonymous]

Here is another example of MCPD abusing Black people:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/maryland/body-camera-police-footage-5-year-old-boy/65-48579fa7-8422-48b4-8f6f-f5361721879a

[Anonymous]

Park Police in Montgomery County said they wanted BLM protesters dead:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/us/maryland-park-police-lawsuit/index.html

[Anonymous]

A White MCPD officer called a group of Black men the n-word (and no that's not okay):

https://www.essence.com/news/maryland-police-racial-slur/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is another example of MCPD abusing Black people:

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/maryland/body-camera-police-footage-5-year-old-boy/65-48579fa7-8422-48b4-8f6f-f5361721879a

Are you blind? The officers are Black. Whatever happened there wasn't racially motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

There are two vocal anti-police councilmembers NOW, but that builds on a prior Council that was very anti-police. And Jawando led the charge. Hans and Hucker were also vocally opposed to police. Hucker was one of the worst. When the Finan Berhe shooting was ruled justified, Hucker was screaming on twitter and anywhere else he could that the family won't get justice. Not acknowledging that surely the police officer did not want to shoot a man rushing at him with a large knife. Not acknowledging that it may possibly have been suicide by cop.

And don't forget Elrich has been very anti-police the entire time. When your local leaders don't support you, you often end up less inclined to go out and risk your life for them. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous activity police do. Remember that five cruisers were smashed by other cars during last holiday season's DUI task force, and at least one officer was injured. That's how Noah Leotta died.

Thank you.

I remember Noah Leotta’s death. Others on this thread have explained how this bill actually endangers officers, but you did it most succinctly. Thank you.

Many police are hit by cars while making traffic stops, mostly State Police who police high speed roads.

This bill will not increase that. It's silly to say it does. It's also disgusting to use a dead cops name to push forward your own agenda. Tillman's parents have often talked about how disgusting it is to use somebody else's name to push forward you own agenda, it's immoral. But PP is a cop and he believes the ends justify the means... and that is the problem.