Mink and Jawando propose to limit pull over offenses in Moco

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

Where is this "next door" that people are going to?

The hostile atmosphere has already been created. Jawando and Mink did not create it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

Where is this "next door" that people are going to?

The hostile atmosphere has already been created. Jawando and Mink did not create it.

Do you not know that there are other counties in MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

Where is this "next door" that people are going to?

The hostile atmosphere has already been created. Jawando and Mink did not create it.

Do you not know that there are other counties in MD?

Of course! Is that where people are going? How do you know? How are the pay and working conditions in those other counties?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

Where is this "next door" that people are going to?

The hostile atmosphere has already been created. Jawando and Mink did not create it.

Do you not know that there are other counties in MD?

Of course! Is that where people are going? How do you know? How are the pay and working conditions in those other counties?

^^^Looks like Howard County is offering hiring bonuses, which suggests they're having trouble hiring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, just to review, MCPD is conducting less than half of the traffic stops they did pre-pandemic, because they are afraid of "losing their livelihoods", but nobody can point to an actual MCPD officer that was fired because of misconduct.

On the other hand, Mink and Jawando are "risking people's lives" because they want to limit enforcement of low-level offenses. GMAFB.

What a remarkably oversimplified look at what is happening.

Somebody upthread said that this bill throws middle school thinking at a PhD problem, which sums up the situation quite nicely.

I mean you are suggesting that limiting traffic stops will kill people. MCPD has significantly curtailed traffic enforcement , much more so than this law would do, so presumably people are already being killed.

More people are being killed, but that's true overall in the US, not just in Montgomery County, and it doesn't seem to be because of a decline in police traffic stops.

Okay, so why are you so concerned about limiting traffic stops, per the proposed law, if it they don't increase safety?

I'm the PP who posted about more people being killed. I'm not the PP who has it in for Mink and Jawando because they haven't going through the Citizens Academy.

Oh I see.

It's generally fascinating to me that if Mink and Jawando propose limiting traffic stops, it is a horrific threat to traffic safety, but if MCPD reduces traffic enforcement by two thirds, the impact on safety of that is barely discussed and if it's mentioned it simply becomes a talking point for how horrible for police officers it is when Jawando and Mink post tweets about policing. It is just an absurd discussion.

I posted above about oversimplifying this entire problem. There are ways to address this without jumping the shark with this severely shortsighted bill. Perhaps Mink and Jawando could try working with the police? Perhaps through some ride-alongs, meetings with officers, analysis of data, honest discussions involving the very people this bill impacts? Perhaps the community could have some say, the very community asking for more enforcement? Perhaps reform could look like collaboration and not whatever absurdity this is.

And it isn’t absurd to mention the tweets. They are unprofessional and contribute (cause?) the poor relationship between the council and MCPD.

If police cannot do their jobs because 2 out of 11 councilmembers have posted critical tweets about police, I don't know what to tell you. I think that's incredibly petty and unprofessional of police.

Btw there have been and are some pretty terrible councilmembers that cause poor relationships between the council and many departments. George Leventhal was terrible. Andrew Friedson is a bully and a monster. Elected officials are often horrible, sociopathic people that typically escape accountability. It sucks. It's really not a reason for police to stop doing their jobs. What seems more likely is that police have a terrible relationship with the communities that they most police, and that is affecting their ability to police. Not some councilmembers' tweets.

I assume you are the same poster who repeatedly is saying MCPD is refusing to work. (Call logs, I’m sure, would suggest otherwise.) Can you please point to your proof, something other than the Chief’s comment about discouraged officers?

Look… we can’t keep officers and we can’t recruit them. It’s going to be pretty hard to reform policing when the people in charge create a hostile atmosphere. You can justify their tweets all you want, but the reality will remain the same. Why work here when you can go next door and get loads more support?

I think it's absurd to say that tweets from 2 out of 11 councilmembers are creating a hostile atmosphere. Just mind-numbingly absurd.

[Anonymous]

What would you call the environment when they call a public safety meeting in East County, to respond to the uptick in violent crime.

And the community pretty much unanimously says "YES- we want more policing", for two council members to draft up this bill? Is that a good environment? Is that listening to your constituents??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would you call the environment when they call a public safety meeting in East County, to respond to the uptick in violent crime.

And the community pretty much unanimously says "YES- we want more policing", for two council members to draft up this bill? Is that a good environment? Is that listening to your constituents??

The community said they want more policing. Great, then maybe MCPD was wrong to reduce traffic enforcement to a third of the previous level.

The notion that the above is a "hostile environment" is even more absurd then blaming the tweets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would you call the environment when they call a public safety meeting in East County, to respond to the uptick in violent crime.

And the community pretty much unanimously says "YES- we want more policing", for two council members to draft up this bill? Is that a good environment? Is that listening to your constituents??

Yes, it is. Did the community want police officers to spend more time and effort pulling people over for tinted windows? I wasn't at the meeting, but I doubt that's what the community was saying.

[Anonymous]

Its fine that there are a few of you here are fully "defund" "ACAB" etc. Thats your opinion.

But it puts you far outside of the mainstream in moco who literally just want safety and order.

And eventually it will show up at the ballot box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its fine that there are a few of you here are fully "defund" "ACAB" etc. Thats your opinion.

But it puts you far outside of the mainstream in moco who literally just want safety and order.

And eventually it will show up at the ballot box.

Nobody has said that on this thread.

Overpolicing is antithetical to safety and order - assuming you're referring to safety and order for all, not just some.

[Anonymous]

Jawando iis ok with crime in the county and MCPS. He lives in a fancy expensive community and his kids are in private. He has his own little safety bubble and doesn't care how his decisions and recommendations impact others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jawando iis ok with crime in the county and MCPS. He lives in a fancy expensive community and his kids are in private. He has his own little safety bubble and doesn't care how his decisions and recommendations impact others.

Yep. This. Jawando only cares about his political career and advancement. He will push every progressive policy he can, knowing he and his family are safe from any negative ramifications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jawando iis ok with crime in the county and MCPS. He lives in a fancy expensive community and his kids are in private. He has his own little safety bubble and doesn't care how his decisions and recommendations impact others.

One could cynically wonder that about Thrive in his case too.

Moves from East County to Ashton- where they would never upzone anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jawando iis ok with crime in the county and MCPS. He lives in a fancy expensive community and his kids are in private. He has his own little safety bubble and doesn't care how his decisions and recommendations impact others.

One could cynically wonder that about Thrive in his case too.

Moves from East County to Ashton- where they would never upzone anyway.

One could cynically wonder why y'all are jealous. I would never be jealous of somebody who lives way the heck out off New Hampshire Avenue where you have to drive a long way any time you want to go anywhere, but to each their own.