Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

In my family of origin the men watch football while the women get the meal on the table (everyone cleans up after) and the next day the men are all on kid duty while the women go Black Friday shopping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Um. Feminism is about wanting equality for women. I'm not sure how accepting people's choices fits with that, but whatever.

Also, if you go back and read the thread, there are a few posters who pretended to be so confuuuussseeeeddd about this dynamic (of women being expected to do it all) because their husbands love to cook. Somehow, that makes them feminist icons and the rest of us are the real problem and not, you know, society's ridiculous expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

In my family of origin the men watch football while the women get the meal on the table (everyone cleans up after) and the next day the men are all on kid duty while the women go Black Friday shopping.

Bleck, I would hate that. In our family, everyone pitches in on Thanksgiving and we do something relaxing as a family the next day. Usually we put up the tree/see a movie/take a hike/etc. All depends if we are home or traveling, what the weather is, etc. Holiday shopping is done online or at other times, and certainly not just by "the women."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Um. Feminism is about wanting equality for women. I'm not sure how accepting people's choices fits with that, but whatever.

Also, if you go back and read the thread, there are a few posters who pretended to be so confuuuussseeeeddd about this dynamic (of women being expected to do it all) because their husbands love to cook. Somehow, that makes them feminist icons and the rest of us are the real problem and not, you know, society's ridiculous expectations.

NP. My husband doesn’t love to cook, but he gets that holidays are 50% his responsibility when we host. We sit down and make a plan of all that needs to be done, and divide it up. He doesn’t have to cook something himself for him to be responsible for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

In my family of origin the men watch football while the women get the meal on the table (everyone cleans up after) and the next day the men are all on kid duty while the women go Black Friday shopping.

Bleck, I would hate that. In our family, everyone pitches in on Thanksgiving and we do something relaxing as a family the next day. Usually we put up the tree/see a movie/take a hike/etc. All depends if we are home or traveling, what the weather is, etc. Holiday shopping is done online or at other times, and certainly not just by "the women."

That sounds nice, too. I'm not a big shopper in general, but I do enjoy and look forward to this day with my mom and sisters and whoever else is in town for the holiday. We make a day of it, go out for lunch and sometimes dinner. DH does all his shopping online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IF DH disappeared all day on Tgiving day to golf, he sure as hell would be 100% in charge of the kids adn cooking all day the next day while i slept and shopped online.

In my family of origin the men watch football while the women get the meal on the table (everyone cleans up after) and the next day the men are all on kid duty while the women go Black Friday shopping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Um. Feminism is about wanting equality for women. I'm not sure how accepting people's choices fits with that, but whatever.

Also, if you go back and read the thread, there are a few posters who pretended to be so confuuuussseeeeddd about this dynamic (of women being expected to do it all) because their husbands love to cook. Somehow, that makes them feminist icons and the rest of us are the real problem and not, you know, society's ridiculous expectations.

NP. My husband doesn’t love to cook, but he gets that holidays are 50% his responsibility when we host. We sit down and make a plan of all that needs to be done, and divide it up. He doesn’t have to cook something himself for him to be responsible for it.

+1. We divide and conquer holidays same as anything else. I am not good at home repairs, but I sure do know how to hire a plumber and pay one. Whether it is car upkeep or providing a big meal, we sit down and figure it out together, and sometimes we do things ourselves, sometimes we ask family to pitch in, and sometimes we throw money at the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

I’m not getting this vibe. Instead, the message seems to be that women don’t want to be assumed to be the person in charge of holidays and meals just because we have a vagina. I don’t think any one on here has said that women should not have any involvement with Thanksgiving.

People are assuming that all women don't want to take on this role or be involved with the in-laws. That's just not true for a lot of women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

As long as:
1) You’re doing it because you want to and enjoy it, not because “hubby” or his family expect it of you
2) You’re not teaching your children that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work, and that men are hapless and exempt. Ask yourself: are you the mom/hostess who asks your daughter to clear the table with you while your son sits with the other men and is literally served and cleaned up after? Be honest.

If you don’t make a point to model balanced family duties and holiday duties, be fully prepared for you son to be totally disengaged in the future, and be willing for your daughter to be totally disinterested in perpetuating holidays that uphold the patriarchy—hopefully she’ll go hiking with her friends and enjoy Chinese food for dinner rather than clearing plates for her brother and uncles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

As long as:
1) You’re doing it because you want to and enjoy it, not because “hubby” or his family expect it of you
2) You’re not teaching your children that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work, and that men are hapless and exempt. Ask yourself: are you the mom/hostess who asks your daughter to clear the table with you while your son sits with the other men and is literally served and cleaned up after? Be honest.

If you don’t make a point to model balanced family duties and holiday duties, be fully prepared for you son to be totally disengaged in the future, and be willing for your daughter to be totally disinterested in perpetuating holidays that uphold the patriarchy—hopefully she’ll go hiking with her friends and enjoy Chinese food for dinner rather than clearing plates for her brother and uncles

Yes, I agree. But there are a lot of posters who think that because a woman enjoys (really enjoys, not just because someone expects her to enjoy) domestic things she's upholding the patriarchy or not a real feminist. That's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

How? By "calling out women"? What BS.

Fundamentally, I don't think this PP and the others bragging about their husbands have even read the thread. MOST women on here are complaining about the *expectation* that they do it all, not saying they do it all. We're saying, hey, we didn't ask for this unfair expectation and we won't take it on.

And we deserve to be "called out" over what someone else expects of us? At least read the freaking thread before you dump on people posting here.

There have been plenty of posters on here who say this dynamic bothers them, but that they “just give in and do it anyway.” And then there’s this gem:
“I’m in my mid 30s and I do this because I’m just too tired to play dumb. Y’all husbands don’t text back or do their fair share of this stuff. I don’t blame you but I’m not gonna waste my time.”

Like, this woman is knowingly bothering other women even though their husbands are the ones who should at least be the point people for making basic plans with their own damn families. You really should go back and read the thread.

I said "most." Not all. Most. You cherry-picked several egregious examples for the purpose of putting down other women. Also, consider that the women who do give in and do it anyway are probably exhausted - maybe try a little compassion instead of criticizing them.

And to a different PP - no one is criticizing women who don't do these things, we're pointing out the hypocrisy in pretending to be "confused" about this dynamic, implying how modern and feminist one is, with the sole intent of putting down other women. What in the actual?

I have no compassion for women who willingly perpetuate patriarchal dynamics. All they have to do is say no. No one on this thread is making mashed potatoes at gunpoint. Stand up for yourselves and be a better role model to your kids.

Being so judgmental of other women isn't an improvement, PP.

I agree with PP though. Women continue to enable men and support the patriarchy. Just don’t do it. I’m not kidding I haven’t even talked about thanksgiving with my husband. No one can force me to cook a meal and if they do then I can call the police.

Yes, and blaming women for the continuance of the patriarchy is a winning strategy.

Contempt is contempt, no matter which gender slings it.

DP. Anyone complicit in supporting the continuance of the patriarchy should be called out. I absolutely have contempt for women who expect me to conform to their idea of what a woman/wife should be doing.

Bragging about your husband the chef as a means of putting down other women isn't smashing the patriarchy.

PP you're responding to. My DH isn't a chef and I haven't bragged about him on this thread. I'm the PP who gave him a choice of him buying Christmas gifts for his family or making a donation in their name. I also wrote that, over the course of nearly 30 years together, it hasn't been easy to hold firm on my refusal to conform to the women's idea of what I should be doing. But that I'm glad I have.

Being a feminist is accepting the choices people make.

Choice feminism has been debunked as complete crap. You can CHOOSE to walk 10 paces behind your husband, and only eat the leftovers of his meals, but that ain't feminism, baby.

Puh-lease - you and the other post are choosing to be contrary. Being a feminist absolutely is about respecting choices when they are made from a place of equity (not equality).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's part of the new wave of " feminism". Feminism is in quotes because it's not feminism at all.

It's attack and be nasty towards anyone who doesn't do what I want. Mark them as misogynists and upholders of patriarchy.

Shame all things traditionally considered female as toxic and detrimental unless a male wants to do it.

Uplift anything traditionally male unless a male wants to do it then it's toxic.

Traditional methods of familial bonding are labeled oppressive.

This is absolutely true. You see it in this thread. I enjoy cooking and decorating. So what?

As long as:
1) You’re doing it because you want to and enjoy it, not because “hubby” or his family expect it of you
2) You’re not teaching your children that holidays and family dynamics are women’s work, and that men are hapless and exempt. Ask yourself: are you the mom/hostess who asks your daughter to clear the table with you while your son sits with the other men and is literally served and cleaned up after? Be honest.

If you don’t make a point to model balanced family duties and holiday duties, be fully prepared for you son to be totally disengaged in the future, and be willing for your daughter to be totally disinterested in perpetuating holidays that uphold the patriarchy—hopefully she’ll go hiking with her friends and enjoy Chinese food for dinner rather than clearing plates for her brother and uncles

Yes, I agree. But there are a lot of posters who think that because a woman enjoys (really enjoys, not just because someone expects her to enjoy) domestic things she's upholding the patriarchy or not a real feminist. That's ridiculous.

I agree with you! I like doing several domestic things, but DH and I sit down together before any holiday, family vacation, family visit or what have you, and make a plan. It’s not me in the kitchen while he watches football all day. We balance it so that we’re both contributing, we’re both getting breaks, we’re both getting to spend time with family, or we’re both getting time to avoid family! (I’m not saying he doesn’t watch ANY football, for example.)