We can’t afford it but she wants it. What do I say?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here- we both work. HHI around $220k. We drive older cars hence my car breakdown concerns. We refinanced during the pandemic but it’s now on a 15 year and there’s no way we’d refinance to a 30 year now. (Clearly weren’t anticipating this). We are otherwise fairly conservative on spending- but the DC area is still what it is. The schools being considered are on the cheaper side for private— around $35k for the HS. We may be able to compromise and send them to only HS, but I haven’t approached that yet.

If you could possibly afford $35K/year there is no need to save more for college. College is mostly < $35K/year.

Um, what yesteryear are you living in where college is under 35k a year?

I’m a different poster, but I have two kids in college in-state and both are under that. So…a student who gets some merit and goes in-state? How much do you think in state tuition is?

Do you not understand what “mostly” means?

Yes, despite what you think MORE kids go in state with some type of aid than have parents who pay over $140k for undergrad. I know that’s hard to comprehend in your little bubble. In-State colleges are pretty popular if you haven’t noticed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m in the same boat brother. Wife rules the roost on this. I see no benefit in private

As a school teacher in public school, I disagree with you. There is a HUGE benefit when the school system sucks for your county. I teach public school and send my kids to private. We are in PG county.... OP, would it be possible to do private school for high school only? So middle schooler stays but high school gets private? Would that help meet both of your needs while compromising?

I’m a public school teacher in MoCo and we did the opposite. Private ES for the younger girl and private through MS for the boy. Girl is now in magnet HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If wife insists upon this, she needs to raise her income (post any childcare) by at least $1,000-$1,500 a month. Either change jobs or get a second job. Then you’ll see just how important it really is to her.

I was thinking this. If she wants them to go to private she needs to take a second job to cover it without hitting the budget. She is their mother. Your kids could benefit from seeing the sacrifice she will make to send them to private school. Do not compromise and run at a monthly deficit and spend the college fund on this.

FYI, most kids coming out of private schools don't get scholarships either unless there is a sport involved. Admittedly, your child will likely have a better education and higher sat scores. So you will still need to pay the tuition at the nicer college your kid is likely to get into.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am coming into this conversation late, but I urge you and your wife to sit down and look at college costs now and project into the future. I think your wife may have an unrealistic idea of how much you guys will be expected to pay for college education for your kids. Does she anticipate sending your children to a private residential college? See how much it would cost right now and how likely financial or merit would be if you were sending them to college now. Yes, there is often a discount but still it can be $50,000/year+ at many colleges. Does she think you will pay that? If so where will that money come from if you cut back on college savings now to pay for private school?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DW wants to send our kids to private schools (HS and MS). The publics near us are okay but not great. I would like to send them to private too but it would put a lot of pressure on our finances. We definitely don’t qualify for financial aid. Even if we tighten our budget (and reduce our savings contribution to zero) we would still be short every month (around $500 to $1k depending on how much we tighten). We have a decent e-fund but I’d like to save it for emergencies and not covering any gaps that might come from this.

When I brought these concerns up, she said she would take money out of their college fund to cover it, which isn’t as robust as it should be, and even reduce her retirement savings. She also seems to assuming we’re going to be making more in later years. This just concerns me on so many levels, esp if something unexpected were to happen (job loss, car breakdown, etc.) I don’t want to jeopardize our finances but not sure how to help her see how this could impacts us. Help!

It's too hard to tell from your post if you really can't afford it or not.
What does cutting savings down to zero really mean? To some people that actually means a nominal amount of 5 - 10% per paycheck. They make so much that such amount feels to them like zero.
How much do you already have in savings? Are you talking like 2 years of living expenses for emergency funds? Where are those savings? Are they liquid or does it mean you have to cash something in and might take a tax hit?
You are right - you can't bank on the idea that you will definitely make more in later years.
No college savings might or might not be a problem. How much do you already have saved for college?
Would you still be putting thousands each year towards vacations? Gifts?
I wouldn't waste the money on private middle school but consider private high school but know why. Do you think it will give your kid a leg up in college admissions? Make sure to check where students are going to college. Many times the local private schools have a lot of kids going to the same colleges as the run of the mill public high school.

I mean, their HHI is 220k and they have TWO kids that the wife wants to put in private. Most of us at that HHI don’t have an extra $50-80k in the budget.

I don't see how the wife thinks this is even remotely a possibility based on your current income. My husband and I make about $250K a year and we have two children. We made closer to $220K when our children were still in daycare, and it felt like we were being crushed financially when we were paying about $40K a year for both of their daycare tuition. The only way this is possible is if either or both of you start making significantly more money. I'd say you need to make at least an additional $100K a year, and even then your finances would feel tight.

Another thing to consider is that people who send their kids to private schools that are around $30K a year will be on a VERY different level then you from a financial perspective. You and your kids will feel pressure to keep up with the jones. You will feel pressure to put your kids in the best activities, to go on expensive trips, buy expensive clothes, and send them to expensive camps. None of that will be possible on your current salary.

If you can't significantly increase your income, and quickly, do not do it.

The social aspect is always ignored for some strange reason. Class matters no matter how hard americans try to deny this.

Ya, your kids will be miserable even if you could figure out the finances (you can’t). We would hesitate and we have a seven figure HHI. Consider people like us are average at privates in this area.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Public schools often do a better job in college admissions than privates. Spend extra money on tutors and extracurricular academic programs which will be a tiny amount compared to private school. Your kids will be top dogs at the public and have great college options, including for merit aid.

Focus on math, writing, and science tutoring.

Everybody wins and you can still save for college and retirement.

+1. We have a high HHI of $600K, can afford private (not in DC area), kids go to a good public school (not the best in the area). We spend a ton of money on enrichment, tutoring. Feels like we get better ROI vs. paying for privates.

+1. We are in the same boat. Applied to private last year but turned it down bc the $50K/year is just stupid. Instead, we save money, spend on enrichment and live a stress-free life. It is so nice to not worry about a tuition bill that would hamstring us.

OP, I went to a fancy private school. I had a wonderful experience and credit a lot of my life experiences to that private school. However, my younger sibling who went to a public school is pretty on par with salary and career as myself. I make $450K (attorney) and he makes $450K (doctor). One in private and the other in public. WE also both went to the same state flagship school.

I think way too much stock is put in private school. If your kid is in a good public with parents who support and foster education, your DC will be just fine. Save the money,

This just occurred to me, reading your post. I wonder if a family with a $900k HHI feels less pressure to go to private because you've already proved your worth and you might not have class anxiety. I wonder if OP's wife doesn't feel as secure, and so she's pushing to send the kids to private because she feels she needs the validation of the kids being in private - and also I wonder if she feels the kids need to be socialized around the super rich kids in a way you don't because you're so wealthy.

Sort of the same way that rich people can bang around in a sh***y car because they don't have to prove anything to anyone, but someone who is more middle class feels the need to drive a good car in order to prove they belong.

(And I believe anyone with a HHI of $220k is doing awesome and should feel very good about what they've gotten in this hard life, but it may be that OP's wife feels like she wants to open up a different world to her kids or feels some class anxiety.)

Just to correct, our HHI is not $900K - it's about $650K. The $450 and $450K was the example of how my younger brother and I - despite going to private v public school - both make the same salary.

That said, I recognize that at $650HHI we still likely feel less pressure to validate our decisions and/or standing. 6 years ago, our HHI was around $200K and I did struggle with public v private - in part because it seemed like the shiny, out of reach option that we could not afford. After we went through the application process and I realized that private schools were not what I thought they were, I feel a bit more confident in our decision. Plus, the benefit of time and experience is that you see how things are turning out. My DD in 8th is doing great and the math enrichments have really paid off.

All that said, OP's wife should not bankrupt them for private school. It's a long road and hopefully they can gain wealth through savings and come out ahead.

Ah sorry, I read your post too quickly. But I do wonder if that idea stands - that someone with a very high HHI is free of class anxiety in a way that someone like OP's wife is not.

And again, $200k is a very very very nice HHI - but maybe the thing is it's just on the cusp of wealthy, and that provokes some of this stuff OP and his wife are going through.

Then again I can easily picture someone with an HHI of $900k feeling anxiety that they aren't bringing in a million, and needing to prove themselves to THAT group of people or whatever.

I think that mentality likely drives 90% of private school admissions. It's a keeping up with the Joneses parade.

Are some of you unaware of what is going on in some school systems? My older kids went to public and I assumed my younger ones would, too. Then Covid happened and they’re now in private. It’s not a keeping up with the Joneses for many people. Have you seen the latest scores from MCPS? It’s concerning.

Yawn. Yes, I have. We have all read the same things that you do. I still don't think the private schools are worth anywhere near $50K per kid. If it were $25K, maybe. What I found, in our application process, that the private school kids were not more academically inclined than the other AAP or honors public school kids, but they were richer. I don't think it is worth it for our family to pay $150K per year for the next 6 years just for my kids to go to school with rich kids. We do math enrichment, among other things. My children have all tested great, do well in honors/AAP, and have a ton of other extracurriculars. All for less than what I would've spent on one kid at private. Instead of bleeding the $150K in private school, I invest it and can gift to kids when they're older. They'll get far more use out of the cash than spending a decade trying to keep up with the uber-rich trust fund class.

So it might be worth it to you but - been there, and it wasn't worth all that.

You applied to a school with $50k tuition and determined the student body would be richer and this was a surprise to you?
You sound super out of touch. There are a lot of choices in between a bad public school and a $50k school. There is a whole lot more to school than math enrichment and test scores. My kids left MCPS and could barely write a paper. The English curriculum is terrible. But they sure could take a standardized test!

Potomac and FHS are around $45K for MS and HS. Add the bus fees, lunch, tech/compu fees, books, uniforms and you're at $50K. There are no other real choices other than Catholic schools. Those are cheap, yes, but they are not better than public schools. the only reason to choose Catholic is if you want religious instructions. Otherwise, academics are clearly better in public as most Catholics are not worth paying for.

That may have been true in the past (that catholic aren't that much stronger academically), but it's not true in the current climate IMO. At least in MCPS.

When the test scores were released recently, Catholic schools nationwide way outperformed every state in the country. Yes, they have an advantage in that they can select their students, but that should put to rest the old “their not better than public schools” canard.

This is not true if you isolate the public school kids by race and socioeconomics. The biggest predictors of a child’s test scores are HHI and education level of the mother.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Public schools often do a better job in college admissions than privates. Spend extra money on tutors and extracurricular academic programs which will be a tiny amount compared to private school. Your kids will be top dogs at the public and have great college options, including for merit aid.

Focus on math, writing, and science tutoring.

Everybody wins and you can still save for college and retirement.

+1. We have a high HHI of $600K, can afford private (not in DC area), kids go to a good public school (not the best in the area). We spend a ton of money on enrichment, tutoring. Feels like we get better ROI vs. paying for privates.

+1. We are in the same boat. Applied to private last year but turned it down bc the $50K/year is just stupid. Instead, we save money, spend on enrichment and live a stress-free life. It is so nice to not worry about a tuition bill that would hamstring us.

OP, I went to a fancy private school. I had a wonderful experience and credit a lot of my life experiences to that private school. However, my younger sibling who went to a public school is pretty on par with salary and career as myself. I make $450K (attorney) and he makes $450K (doctor). One in private and the other in public. WE also both went to the same state flagship school.

I think way too much stock is put in private school. If your kid is in a good public with parents who support and foster education, your DC will be just fine. Save the money,

This just occurred to me, reading your post. I wonder if a family with a $900k HHI feels less pressure to go to private because you've already proved your worth and you might not have class anxiety. I wonder if OP's wife doesn't feel as secure, and so she's pushing to send the kids to private because she feels she needs the validation of the kids being in private - and also I wonder if she feels the kids need to be socialized around the super rich kids in a way you don't because you're so wealthy.

Sort of the same way that rich people can bang around in a sh***y car because they don't have to prove anything to anyone, but someone who is more middle class feels the need to drive a good car in order to prove they belong.

(And I believe anyone with a HHI of $220k is doing awesome and should feel very good about what they've gotten in this hard life, but it may be that OP's wife feels like she wants to open up a different world to her kids or feels some class anxiety.)

Just to correct, our HHI is not $900K - it's about $650K. The $450 and $450K was the example of how my younger brother and I - despite going to private v public school - both make the same salary.

That said, I recognize that at $650HHI we still likely feel less pressure to validate our decisions and/or standing. 6 years ago, our HHI was around $200K and I did struggle with public v private - in part because it seemed like the shiny, out of reach option that we could not afford. After we went through the application process and I realized that private schools were not what I thought they were, I feel a bit more confident in our decision. Plus, the benefit of time and experience is that you see how things are turning out. My DD in 8th is doing great and the math enrichments have really paid off.

All that said, OP's wife should not bankrupt them for private school. It's a long road and hopefully they can gain wealth through savings and come out ahead.

Ah sorry, I read your post too quickly. But I do wonder if that idea stands - that someone with a very high HHI is free of class anxiety in a way that someone like OP's wife is not.

And again, $200k is a very very very nice HHI - but maybe the thing is it's just on the cusp of wealthy, and that provokes some of this stuff OP and his wife are going through.

Then again I can easily picture someone with an HHI of $900k feeling anxiety that they aren't bringing in a million, and needing to prove themselves to THAT group of people or whatever.

I think that mentality likely drives 90% of private school admissions. It's a keeping up with the Joneses parade.

Are some of you unaware of what is going on in some school systems? My older kids went to public and I assumed my younger ones would, too. Then Covid happened and they’re now in private. It’s not a keeping up with the Joneses for many people. Have you seen the latest scores from MCPS? It’s concerning.

Yawn. Yes, I have. We have all read the same things that you do. I still don't think the private schools are worth anywhere near $50K per kid. If it were $25K, maybe. What I found, in our application process, that the private school kids were not more academically inclined than the other AAP or honors public school kids, but they were richer. I don't think it is worth it for our family to pay $150K per year for the next 6 years just for my kids to go to school with rich kids. We do math enrichment, among other things. My children have all tested great, do well in honors/AAP, and have a ton of other extracurriculars. All for less than what I would've spent on one kid at private. Instead of bleeding the $150K in private school, I invest it and can gift to kids when they're older. They'll get far more use out of the cash than spending a decade trying to keep up with the uber-rich trust fund class.

So it might be worth it to you but - been there, and it wasn't worth all that.

You applied to a school with $50k tuition and determined the student body would be richer and this was a surprise to you?
You sound super out of touch. There are a lot of choices in between a bad public school and a $50k school. There is a whole lot more to school than math enrichment and test scores. My kids left MCPS and could barely write a paper. The English curriculum is terrible. But they sure could take a standardized test!

Potomac and FHS are around $45K for MS and HS. Add the bus fees, lunch, tech/compu fees, books, uniforms and you're at $50K. There are no other real choices other than Catholic schools. Those are cheap, yes, but they are not better than public schools. the only reason to choose Catholic is if you want religious instructions. Otherwise, academics are clearly better in public as most Catholics are not worth paying for.

That may have been true in the past (that catholic aren't that much stronger academically), but it's not true in the current climate IMO. At least in MCPS.

When the test scores were released recently, Catholic schools nationwide way outperformed every state in the country. Yes, they have an advantage in that they can select their students, but that should put to rest the old “their not better than public schools” canard.

This is not true if you isolate the public school kids by race and socioeconomics. The biggest predictors of a child’s test scores are HHI and education level of the mother.

You racist

[Anonymous]

I think your wife may be aware of factors that you’re not considering, OP. And if you wanted to find a way to make private school work then you would. It’s doable in your situation. You just don’t want to admit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think your wife may be aware of factors that you’re not considering, OP. And if you wanted to find a way to make private school work then you would. It’s doable in your situation. You just don’t want to admit it.

True

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your options are:

-Stick with public
-Find the money somewhere (sell your house and move to smaller, sell a car, cancel cable or other subscriptions, cancel gym, no eating out or fun money)
-Earn the money- frankly DW can get a higher paying job if it's so important to her or pick up a second job

You CAN NOT go into private school as-is literally knowing you'll be in the red every month. That's absolutely insane and will be a disservice to your kids in a million more ways than private school with enhance their lives.

My own opinion- my DH went to mediocre public schools then his parents paid for his and BIL's college in full. I went to private schools and my parents gave me $10k for college, I graduated with $80k debt. I think that was the most idiotic thing my parents did. I grew up feeling so inadequate- the poorest kid in private. I didn't understand why all the other kids wore these insane clothes, shoes, backpacks, did travel sports, went on trips, lived in mansions. We couldn't afford any of that or for me to have birthday parties, the country club membership they all had, the sleep away camps they all went to, friend's parents would invite me on trips but I couldn't go because we couldn't pay my way. It was a lifestyle I had no business being exposed to at such a young age. I HATED it. I would have been SO much happier in public school with kids like me that met at the neighborhood park and did park district sports.

PP here again and I don't even think I can emphasize how strongly I feel about this. If you aren't a "private school family" please do not throw your kids to the wolves of that life.

Agree. They will be scarred for life, have little to no choice on where to go to college, and you will have no retirement funds.

[Anonymous]

Op, we send our kids to private - switched from “good” MCPS public ES.

From our perspective, it is better and worth the $$. All of our friends have stayed at that public, so I understand that many folks don’t see the value, even if they can afford it. But the benefits are so much more than nicer facilities, and it’s more than worth the tuition.

For many private schools with tuition $35-50k, at $220 you would likely get some financial aid, assuming you don’t have huge assets (you seem to suggest you don’t).

However, it may be a moot point - have your kids apply and see if they even get in. Only apply to those you both really like (so it’s not just “anything other than public”) and also apply for financial aid. Your kids may not get in anywhere, and you will also know if they offer you any financial aid.

The only sticky thing might be if they offer your kids admission but no aid. But perhaps the compromise might be that if they don’t offer a set amount of aid , you will not enroll.

The better/more competitive schools will have more financial aid available, but obviously are harder to get into, but that’s something to consider.

[Anonymous]

We have almost double the HHI and do not send our kids to private even though their school district is no where near stellar. Supplement with academic camps, tutoring, and spend generously for one extracurricular for each of them. If one of your kids is struggling and is not special needs, one of you should go part-time to help them with managing their schoolwork - that will pay off more than private. You want your kids to have viable college options and be able to afford to send them to one with your savings and/or merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Everyone has said everything, but don’t do it. Just don’t. You have obligations to your kids and family other than sending them to private school.

I also echo the other issues people are raising - if your kid is not in the same upper stratum as the others they will feel like an outsider the entire time. I had a great junior high/high school education but it was extremely unpleasant.

[Anonymous]

Start living now like you are paying for private school. Set that money aside into savings. Live what it will be like. Will need to cut back on holiday shopping, groceries, sports and other activities, clothes, trips etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, we send our kids to private - switched from “good” MCPS public ES.

From our perspective, it is better and worth the $$. All of our friends have stayed at that public, so I understand that many folks don’t see the value, even if they can afford it. But the benefits are so much more than nicer facilities, and it’s more than worth the tuition.

For many private schools with tuition $35-50k, at $220 you would likely get some financial aid, assuming you don’t have huge assets (you seem to suggest you don’t).

However, it may be a moot point - have your kids apply and see if they even get in. Only apply to those you both really like (so it’s not just “anything other than public”) and also apply for financial aid. Your kids may not get in anywhere, and you will also know if they offer you any financial aid.

The only sticky thing might be if they offer your kids admission but no aid. But perhaps the compromise might be that if they don’t offer a set amount of aid , you will not enroll.

The better/more competitive schools will have more financial aid available, but obviously are harder to get into, but that’s something to consider.

Could you share more about the benefits you experience beyond the facilities? And since you left public, is there anything you miss? We are grappling with this decision right now. TIA