Divorced parents late in life drama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for your loss, OP. She may have really disliked your dad, for some private reason, and this is the best she can do. Nothing will make her mourn him if she didn't love him, no matter how you feel, and she seems to need to avoid seeing your pain. Either she's not a very empathetic person, or she needs to avoid it to keep from saying anything negative and hurting you even more.

You're going to have to let it go. You have this one parent left. Allow her to be who she wants to be to you and your kids. You can't change her, and you're still wasting energy resenting that. Stop projecting everything onto her.

You must be OP's mom.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry for your loss. You don't have to respond to her anytime soon. Take your time. It may be a while before you feel up to talking to her again, and that's ok. You just went through major trauma and she can't even acknowledge how hard it's been on you and your sister.

[Anonymous]

OP, so sorry for your loss. My husband lost his father to cancer a few months ago, and it has been very hard for him, so I understand how difficult this is. Your mother's behavior, by any standard, is shameful. When someone you love suffers a profound loss, your personal feelings about the deceased do not matter, you help the person you love. I go to the funerals of my friend's parents to show support - I can't imagine not being there for my own daughter. This is How To Be a Decent Person 101. I hope you can take comfort in the fact that how we treat our loved ones when they are weak and sick is a test of character and you've passed with flying colors, and set an example of what loving behavior looks like for your kids. And I think it's completely fair for you to tell your mom she let you down, and take as much time as you need apart from her to get past it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My dad died a few days after Christmas. It was incredibly difficult, he was very, very sick and out of it (morphine), but I do have a sense of peace for him. His body is gone, but I can still feel him with me at times.

We've gone through the difficult stuff. Funeral. Cleaning out the house, selling his home (which just went under contract) and explaining things to the kids who are old enough to realize what's happened. My husband has been a rock during the ordeal, but I can see the toll on myself and my sister. I swear we've aged ten years in one and I've lost so much weight that I've begun drinking ensure (eating has been difficult). My dad was the youngest one of his side of the family, the last living of that generation, so it's weird for me and my sister to be it for that side of the family. It's all surreal.

My mother was unhelpful during this whole thing. After realizing that the man wouldn't likely see New Year's, she opted to take a cruise during Christmas with friends and went to South America. To give us our space in her words. I didn't need space. I needed my mother, but that's a whole another story.

I don't know where the future will go with us, me and her. She skipped the funeral and hasn't done anything, but simply say sorry for your loss when I informed her he passed. I'm angry, but I cannot tease out whether it's the loss of my father or the abandonment of my mother during the difficult times that is fueling it.

She wrote me a very, very long email about her desire to visit, to see the Cherry Blossoms and to do various things around DC. She's begun calling and leaving long messages in a sing-songy voice. She's pretending everything's fine. It's not. I haven't responded, but that's mostly because I don't know what to say...

Your mother has a low emotional IQ. These type of people can't handle complex pain and they are inherently untrustworthy because they will do anything to avoid it. The pain she's having now is the separating with her children that she brought on. She wants it fixed with no complications so she's putting on sing songy like nothing is wrong. This is a person that is not of much use to emotionally mature people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My dad died a few days after Christmas. It was incredibly difficult, he was very, very sick and out of it (morphine), but I do have a sense of peace for him. His body is gone, but I can still feel him with me at times.

We've gone through the difficult stuff. Funeral. Cleaning out the house, selling his home (which just went under contract) and explaining things to the kids who are old enough to realize what's happened. My husband has been a rock during the ordeal, but I can see the toll on myself and my sister. I swear we've aged ten years in one and I've lost so much weight that I've begun drinking ensure (eating has been difficult). My dad was the youngest one of his side of the family, the last living of that generation, so it's weird for me and my sister to be it for that side of the family. It's all surreal.

My mother was unhelpful during this whole thing. After realizing that the man wouldn't likely see New Year's, she opted to take a cruise during Christmas with friends and went to South America. To give us our space in her words. I didn't need space. I needed my mother, but that's a whole another story.

I don't know where the future will go with us, me and her. She skipped the funeral and hasn't done anything, but simply say sorry for your loss when I informed her he passed. I'm angry, but I cannot tease out whether it's the loss of my father or the abandonment of my mother during the difficult times that is fueling it.

She wrote me a very, very long email about her desire to visit, to see the Cherry Blossoms and to do various things around DC. She's begun calling and leaving long messages in a sing-songy voice. She's pretending everything's fine. It's not. I haven't responded, but that's mostly because I don't know what to say...

Your mother has a low emotional IQ. These type of people can't handle complex pain and they are inherently untrustworthy because they will do anything to avoid it. The pain she's having now is the separating with her children that she brought on. She wants it fixed with no complications so she's putting on sing songy like nothing is wrong. This is a person that is not of much use to emotionally mature people.

OP here. I suspect this is the issue. My mother has never been one to deal with difficulty head on. Her parents are still alive and she's never had any loss on her side of the family. And by all accounts, including her own, her life was great. She enjoyed parenting, raising kids, worked part-time and lived a pretty great life with my father in terms of the day to day. They got along, they worked well together as parents.

By my mother's own account, the wheels fell off in her marriage because she wanted a different, more active retirement lifestyle than my father. She wanted to travel, go out more, be active in activities, etc. I actually thought their divorce (pre-my father's sickness) was very amicable. Everyone was happy. My mother traveled, my father puttered around his place and I had a good relationship with both of them. No strife, they jointly attended holidays at our houses, etc.

My mother's detachment during the crisis might have been a self-preservation tool in some ways. She was in denial until the end about how sick my father was and she didn't see (and actively avoided) the strain his illness put on myself and my sister. I think if she would have engaged, it would have forced her to face reality, which honestly isn't her strong point. She has a narrative about her life ("it's great and full of endless adventures and isn't it great to get to start this next chapter, etc.") that would be impacted by the truth of things, which is life has been hard and difficult and sad.

I actually called my EAP at work and vented to a therapist. And the result is I am going to therapy next week to think through things. I don't know how or if I can trust my mother. That's how let down I feel.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm very sorry for your loss. We went through something similar last year. My mother was very sick all year and lives overseas. My dad is deceased and none of my siblings lived near her. Sadly, she passed away last winter. Our life became incredibly stressful as my DH had just taken a new job that involved a lot of traveling. My siblings and I took turns to go visit my mom and manage her care. My DH is an only child with long divorced parents. His mom died a couple of years ago from cancer. DH asked his dad to help out occasionally and every time the answer was no - sorry, we are going on a cruise or second wife's kids want to visit, etc. We even asked if DH and kids could visit in the summer for one week since all my vacation was spent helping mom. The answer was the same again - we have a cruise and basically need several weeks to prep for it and then step mom's kids want to come by and that is all we can handle. It is typical for him - every thing has to be on his terms. Luckily, some of our friends were awesome and really helped us out. Of course, this year FIL decided to visit us but never said one thing to me about my mom's passing. He also kept saying you guys should leave the kids with us and go on a cruise. Seriously! I was fine with him and his wife but I lost a lot of respect for them. He barely even parented DH as mom apparently did everything. Said he would help pay for college for DH but didn't. DH basically worked 30 h a week while going to college full time. I guess some people just cannot handle any responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone's pretty fixated on thinking people all live in the same cosy village forever being cared for by kind and loving relatives from cradle to grave.

There's more than one type of culture on the planet, more than one way to live and die, and people often make compromises and different choices in life. If your outlook and way of life comforts you, great. No one here will try to lock you in a room to die alone.

OK, well as a child of immigrants I both (1) understand that sometimes you need to leaves bad situation but also (2) realize America is an outlier in terms of how disconnected people are from their families and communities. Personally I find the latter sad. I guess a lot of people don't.

I wish you well with your independence during the prime of your life when you need the least support from anyone else. Just remember choices have consequences and humans have notoriously short time horizons in their decision-making. Good luck.

My prime was many decades ago. You assume this view is only held by people in their prime, and only by "Americans." As the child of immigrants, your view is skewed by your parents' culture, if you grew up in their home, so what you see is "Americans" from the outside, who you assume are sad and disconnected simply because you don't accept that there are gradations of independence and interaction within families according to cultural differences. I agree with you that Americans would benefit by having more options to stay near family and maintain connections more easily. In reality, most of us have to go where jobs take us, and this is a huge country.

My in-laws are immigrants from a culture where everyone is entangled in what my husband admits is a suffocating web of obligations and rules that get enforced with shunning, shaming, and invalidating any individual feelings that don't fit with the group's agenda. In their culture, it's implied that your elders basically own you until they die, and can overrule you in everything. In this type of culture, the individual's feelings and needs have to come second to those of the group (or the whim of the eldest). Under the surface of this family unit that appears so cosy and strong is plenty of dysfunction, shame, and seething resentment, and personality disorders that come from having your individuality beaten down all your life.

My in-laws and their first-generation adult children think everyone operates the way their culture does, and if they don't, they should. They assume I'm estranged from my own extended family simply because we don't live in each others' pockets and run each others' lives, as they do. I consider my family to be adequately close and very caring. We have actual boundaries, though, and respect privacy, individuality, and independence while still managing to care for each other. I guess that makes me a "disconnected" American. Of course I'm used to and prefer the freedoms of my culture, and I acknowledge it has its price in a certain insecurity that you don't feel. But I'll take freedom of choice over your sense of safety. There is something in the middle that's healthy.

Interesting . With the mix of thoughts on family, how are/will you be raising your children?

[Anonymous]

My kids range in age from their thirties to their teens. I've raised them all "attachment" style, with family bed, extended breast feeding, and having them with us as an integrated part of life. They've always been very loved, but also not treated like special snowflakes. I've expected them to pitch in as valued, competent members of our family, from the time they were little, and nurtured their interests and talents, and tried to teach them good values. I respect them as individuals, and we put human connections first, while keeping boundaries, independence, and privacy. So far, they've been turning out to be people I really enjoy being around. And they are all very private, but we feel close.

Because of dysfunction in our parents, we've done a lot of work, and with insight and the healthy boundaries we work to keep in place, our dynamic with them is reasonably okay. We do limit how much we see them, and it takes a lot of work to keep the in-laws from trying to control us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids range in age from their thirties to their teens. I've raised them all "attachment" style, with family bed, extended breast feeding, and having them with us as an integrated part of life. They've always been very loved, but also not treated like special snowflakes. I've expected them to pitch in as valued, competent members of our family, from the time they were little, and nurtured their interests and talents, and tried to teach them good values. I respect them as individuals, and we put human connections first, while keeping boundaries, independence, and privacy. So far, they've been turning out to be people I really enjoy being around. And they are all very private, but we feel close.

Because of dysfunction in our parents, we've done a lot of work, and with insight and the healthy boundaries we work to keep in place, our dynamic with them is reasonably okay. We do limit how much we see them, and it takes a lot of work to keep the in-laws from trying to control us.

How is this relevant to the post? You have a healthy good relationship with your kids and there's nothing that would make you think they would need to care for you if sick? I'm just trying to understand because it sounds like you're married and things have gone well for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My dad died a few days after Christmas. It was incredibly difficult, he was very, very sick and out of it (morphine), but I do have a sense of peace for him. His body is gone, but I can still feel him with me at times.

We've gone through the difficult stuff. Funeral. Cleaning out the house, selling his home (which just went under contract) and explaining things to the kids who are old enough to realize what's happened. My husband has been a rock during the ordeal, but I can see the toll on myself and my sister. I swear we've aged ten years in one and I've lost so much weight that I've begun drinking ensure (eating has been difficult). My dad was the youngest one of his side of the family, the last living of that generation, so it's weird for me and my sister to be it for that side of the family. It's all surreal.

My mother was unhelpful during this whole thing. After realizing that the man wouldn't likely see New Year's, she opted to take a cruise during Christmas with friends and went to South America. To give us our space in her words. I didn't need space. I needed my mother, but that's a whole another story.

I don't know where the future will go with us, me and her. She skipped the funeral and hasn't done anything, but simply say sorry for your loss when I informed her he passed. I'm angry, but I cannot tease out whether it's the loss of my father or the abandonment of my mother during the difficult times that is fueling it.

She wrote me a very, very long email about her desire to visit, to see the Cherry Blossoms and to do various things around DC. She's begun calling and leaving long messages in a sing-songy voice. She's pretending everything's fine. It's not. I haven't responded, but that's mostly because I don't know what to say...

Your mother has a low emotional IQ. These type of people can't handle complex pain and they are inherently untrustworthy because they will do anything to avoid it. The pain she's having now is the separating with her children that she brought on. She wants it fixed with no complications so she's putting on sing songy like nothing is wrong. This is a person that is not of much use to emotionally mature people.

OP here. I suspect this is the issue. My mother has never been one to deal with difficulty head on. Her parents are still alive and she's never had any loss on her side of the family. And by all accounts, including her own, her life was great. She enjoyed parenting, raising kids, worked part-time and lived a pretty great life with my father in terms of the day to day. They got along, they worked well together as parents.

By my mother's own account, the wheels fell off in her marriage because she wanted a different, more active retirement lifestyle than my father. She wanted to travel, go out more, be active in activities, etc. I actually thought their divorce (pre-my father's sickness) was very amicable. Everyone was happy. My mother traveled, my father puttered around his place and I had a good relationship with both of them. No strife, they jointly attended holidays at our houses, etc.

My mother's detachment during the crisis might have been a self-preservation tool in some ways. She was in denial until the end about how sick my father was and she didn't see (and actively avoided) the strain his illness put on myself and my sister. I think if she would have engaged, it would have forced her to face reality, which honestly isn't her strong point. She has a narrative about her life ("it's great and full of endless adventures and isn't it great to get to start this next chapter, etc.") that would be impacted by the truth of things, which is life has been hard and difficult and sad.

I actually called my EAP at work and vented to a therapist. And the result is I am going to therapy next week to think through things. I don't know how or if I can trust my mother. That's how let down I feel.

Living in a narrative is shallow, boring and meaningless to anybody but herself. It is very common among women. The narrative must be maintained because the true fear is accountability . I have found that it is extremely common for women to react to accountability and truly admitting failure like a vampire reacts to a crucifix . Women with the ability accept and absorb fault and acknowledge their shortcomings are true gems . They are rare.

[Anonymous]

I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make. When I get sick and am dying, I'd rather be cared for by paid strangers, than burden my kids. Let them come visit and keep me company when they want to and have time. That's how we do it in my family. That doesn't stop any of us from taking on the care if we choose to. One of my aunts is a caretaker type, and found solace in helping care for my dying grandfather. I may end up caring for my father, as he's very close to leaving us at this point, though he'd rather not have us do his care. None of us know how it will go or what we'll do. It's good to have choice in how we handle these difficult times. That's all I'm saying. Not all cultures are exactly the same in expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids range in age from their thirties to their teens. I've raised them all "attachment" style, with family bed, extended breast feeding, and having them with us as an integrated part of life. They've always been very loved, but also not treated like special snowflakes. I've expected them to pitch in as valued, competent members of our family, from the time they were little, and nurtured their interests and talents, and tried to teach them good values. I respect them as individuals, and we put human connections first, while keeping boundaries, independence, and privacy. So far, they've been turning out to be people I really enjoy being around. And they are all very private, but we feel close.

Because of dysfunction in our parents, we've done a lot of work, and with insight and the healthy boundaries we work to keep in place, our dynamic with them is reasonably okay. We do limit how much we see them, and it takes a lot of work to keep the in-laws from trying to control us.

How is this relevant to the post? You have a healthy good relationship with your kids and there's nothing that would make you think they would need to care for you if sick? I'm just trying to understand because it sounds like you're married and things have gone well for you.

NP but I believe it was a response to a question about how she raised her family directly above this post (but not quoted)

[Anonymous]

Op I am right there with you. Except I am an only child!!! Neither parent saved any money and both were in terrible health. Nightmare. They should have stayed together. We have to support two households!!! Ugh.

I will NEVER do this to my children. Ever.

So I guess I'm more mad they didn't have a plan for their retirement/aging than that they got divorced after 25 yrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your father sounds selfish. You sound selfish. I know way too many women around your mom's age who put themselves LAST their whole lives, and stayed in bad marriages with selfish, rather miserable men, and put their children first. Maybe she's finally thinking of herself, now that she is free. There's a lot you don't know about what she went through and what she gave up, in staying with your father and putting all of you first all these years. Please don't begrudge her.

Your father is no longer her responsibility. It's very, very difficult dealing with an aging, sick parent. Don't put it on your mother. She's done her time.

And I agree that there's a lot of sexism involved in this attitude that women have to be the eternal caretakers.

This.

AMEN SISTA!

This was my mother - always put herself last. When money was tight, she made sure everyone else had clothing while she wore 10 -15 year old tops and jackets.... She took care of my dad as he was a man-child plus raised three kids.
She then took care of her aging parents until they passed away. My dad was expecting her to care for HIS mother and she has refused. I think my mom is just emotionally exhausted and done caring for people over the last 40 years. This has made my father quiet unhappy but I remind him, his mother is HIS responsibility and he can't order my mother like she is his secretary.

It is unfortunate your father is in this situation, but in a way he brought it upon himself by not fostering relationships so people would want to help him.

I have an aunt. She has always been very encouraging and helpful to me. I can see myself being willing to help her when she is old and help by choice not by expectation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read through all the posts. But basically, the same thing happened to me only reversed and it was my mother who was sick. They divorced about 2 years before retirement as well. My father, who wanted nothing to do with my mother, did help me out. He didn't take care of mom, but he watch my child while I dealt with her. They still lived in the same town and he would drive me to and from the airport each time I came to town. He was helping ME during a rough time in my life. He was sorry that my mom was so sick - even if this was the same woman he came to hate.

I just thought he was being supportive of my needs - not hers. He really stepped up.

I think you should just explain to your mom. She should help you as life is really hard right now.

I am sorry. It sucks.

oh - and my dad did whine once about how I wasn't spending time with him when I was in town. It was stressful time and I admit I snapped - but I was just told him - she's sick, she's dying she needs me and you don't. One day you will need me and I will be there for you too.

this!!!!! Well done for your dad who didn't/couldn't help his ex-wife (understandably so) but supported you as his daughter.