Spanking

[Anonymous]

Not enough time right now to send the links to the studies that control for other variables, but just to quickly respond to the article you posted- this article looks at multiple types of parenting styles, not focusing only on spanking. So they looked at permissive parents who never spanked and authoratative parents who did spank. To really test the spanking, you would need to look at parents who did and did not spank in both groups - as it easily could be the overall parenting style that influenced outcomes. Also, it studies self-reported outcomes from a small sample of kids who grew up in the early 90s and notes that almost all the kids in the authoratative group got spanked. So it's very hard to tease apart these effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It hoovers around 65% of parents who do across childhood. The big study that just came out against was a meta-analysis by 2 universitys looking at 160,000 participants over 50 years of other studies, publised in the Journal of Family Psychology. Points to negative short term (not effective) and negative long term (self esteem, learning and social) outcomes. Doesn't work for the now and hurts the future.

The onus of the evidence should be on the people who commit physical violence against their kids (or spouses).

Dear spanking-loving folks,

Can you please show us the well-published Randomized Control Trials that prove spanking works?

Thank you in advance

I can see in my own life that it works. Why would I need a study to confirm that?

By that logic, why do you put your baby on his back to sleep, or use a carseat? Why bother? Studies don't mean anything!

Car seat effectiveness is logical and can be proven both with empirical data and the results on crash test dummies. I suppose I could put a dummy over my lap and spank it, too, but I'm not sure what that would prove.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It hoovers around 65% of parents who do across childhood. The big study that just came out against was a meta-analysis by 2 universitys looking at 160,000 participants over 50 years of other studies, publised in the Journal of Family Psychology. Points to negative short term (not effective) and negative long term (self esteem, learning and social) outcomes. Doesn't work for the now and hurts the future.

The onus of the evidence should be on the people who commit physical violence against their kids (or spouses).

Dear spanking-loving folks,

Can you please show us the well-published Randomized Control Trials that prove spanking works?

Thank you in advance

I can see in my own life that it works. Why would I need a study to confirm that?

By that logic, why do you put your baby on his back to sleep, or use a carseat? Why bother? Studies don't mean anything!

Car seat effectiveness is logical and can be proven both with empirical data and the results on crash test dummies. I suppose I could put a dummy over my lap and spank it, too, but I'm not sure what that would prove.

Also, meant to add, while we diligently followed Back to Sleep, the data supporting it is very weak. However, it was easy to follow for us because our kids were good sleepers. I wouldn't be surprised if they--(*they*) reverse themselves [again] in 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not enough time right now to send the links to the studies that control for other variables, but just to quickly respond to the article you posted- this article looks at multiple types of parenting styles, not focusing only on spanking. So they looked at permissive parents who never spanked and authoratative parents who did spank. To really test the spanking, you would need to look at parents who did and did not spank in both groups - as it easily could be the overall parenting style that influenced outcomes. Also, it studies self-reported outcomes from a small sample of kids who grew up in the early 90s and notes that almost all the kids in the authoratative group got spanked. So it's very hard to tease apart these effects.

Yes, however, at least they're trying to tease them apart. That's the best I've seen any researchers try. Everything I've seen referenced against the practice makes no clear effort to do that.

I look forward to reading the studies you'll post when you have more time that make similar control attempts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Sometimes in order to teach you need to incorporate a little bit of punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

+1

Alfie Kohn is anti-most everything, including punishment. But most parenting philosohies include time outs, grounding, the naughty step, etc. These are all pure punishments as a part of overall discipline.

[Anonymous]

np. I'm not flaming at all, but curious about how some of you define spanking, and for what kind of offenses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It hoovers around 65% of parents who do across childhood. The big study that just came out against was a meta-analysis by 2 universitys looking at 160,000 participants over 50 years of other studies, publised in the Journal of Family Psychology. Points to negative short term (not effective) and negative long term (self esteem, learning and social) outcomes. Doesn't work for the now and hurts the future.

The onus of the evidence should be on the people who commit physical violence against their kids (or spouses).

Dear spanking-loving folks,

Can you please show us the well-published Randomized Control Trials that prove spanking works?

Thank you in advance

I can see in my own life that it works. Why would I need a study to confirm that?

By that logic, why do you put your baby on his back to sleep, or use a carseat? Why bother? Studies don't mean anything!

Car seat effectiveness is logical and can be proven both with empirical data and the results on crash test dummies. I suppose I could put a dummy over my lap and spank it, too, but I'm not sure what that would prove.

Funny that you expressed it this way. Have you read the research that shows children who are spanked have lower IQs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It hoovers around 65% of parents who do across childhood. The big study that just came out against was a meta-analysis by 2 universitys looking at 160,000 participants over 50 years of other studies, publised in the Journal of Family Psychology. Points to negative short term (not effective) and negative long term (self esteem, learning and social) outcomes. Doesn't work for the now and hurts the future.

The onus of the evidence should be on the people who commit physical violence against their kids (or spouses).

Dear spanking-loving folks,

Can you please show us the well-published Randomized Control Trials that prove spanking works?

Thank you in advance

I can see in my own life that it works. Why would I need a study to confirm that?

By that logic, why do you put your baby on his back to sleep, or use a carseat? Why bother? Studies don't mean anything!

Car seat effectiveness is logical and can be proven both with empirical data and the results on crash test dummies. I suppose I could put a dummy over my lap and spank it, too, but I'm not sure what that would prove.

Funny that you expressed it this way. Have you read the research that shows children who are spanked have lower IQs?

Have you followed a word of what we've been talking about between the distinction between correlation and causation, or is that all Greek to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

Why? What is the purpose of punishment (vs. teaching)?

[Anonymous]

np. I'll answer a few questions. As for method, it's the same as what was described a few pages ago...over my lap after a quick talk.

The purpose of punishment is to provide an adverse consequence for misbehavior as a strong deterrent to repeated offenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

Why? What is the purpose of punishment (vs. teaching)?

? Human beings, especially children, aren't completely logical creatures. They are greedy, selfish, etc... Sometimes, you need a deterrent to make them not do something, like jail time for adults, and "punishment" for kids. Yes, we teach them to do the right thing, but without consequences, ie, punishments, some kids will not learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a psychologist I will weigh in that the studies that have been done are definitely clear that there is no benefit to spanking, there is also research showing negative effects. There are a few studies that have shown it to be less harmful - typically when it is common "in-group" practice. That is, when children grow up in households where it is common in that neighborhood/community/culture, it tends to be slightly less harmful. But there are definitely no studies endorsing the practice and decades of child psychology research suggests it does not include any of the components of discipline that we know works. Generally, spanking is a punishment not discipline - as discipline is intended to teach. Punishments don't typically work to change behavior - among adults or children.

Now yes, the research can't randomly assign kids to be hit or not - so we will never have 100% conclusive evidence - but the studies do work to control for factors like SES, education of parents, stress, and other things that could also relate to outcomes to try to limit the amount of other explanations for the findings.

Please, please don't hit your kids. As an adult, can you think of a time when someone wanted you to do something and if they slapped you or hit you, it would make you MORE likely to do it? Possibly only if you were then scared of the person. Seems like not the right reasons we want our kids to do (or not do) things.

+1

Is our role to teach our children, or punish them?

Both. ?

Why? What is the purpose of punishment (vs. teaching)?

? Human beings, especially children, aren't completely logical creatures. They are greedy, selfish, etc... Sometimes, you need a deterrent to make them not do something, like jail time for adults, and "punishment" for kids. Yes, we teach them to do the right thing, but without consequences, ie, punishments, some kids will not learn.

What constitutes a spanking then, for you?