Why do teachers allow horribly behaved kids to stay in the classroom and disrupt other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

School admin isn't the gatekeeper. Capacity is. You can't place students in special programs when those special programs don't have seats. You could increase the size of the programs, but that's significantly more expensive than the home school model.

Expulsion used to be a thing. If the kid can't control themselves, then they can become the parent's problem, not the school's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

School admin isn't the gatekeeper. Capacity is. You can't place students in special programs when those special programs don't have seats. You could increase the size of the programs, but that's significantly more expensive than the home school model.

Expulsion used to be a thing. If the kid can't control themselves, then they can become the parent's problem, not the school's.

It still is, but you can't expel a student because don't want to spend the necessary resources for FAPE on them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

I’m not PP but whether that kid has the right supports should not be something other parents in the class are focused on. That is the job of that kid’s parents to be worried about. The other parents’ job is to worry about their kids being at risk of harm because a kid that does not belong mainstreamed is in the classroom with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

I’m not PP but whether that kid has the right supports should not be something other parents in the class are focused on. That is the job of that kid’s parents to be worried about. The other parents’ job is to worry about their kids being at risk of harm because a kid that does not belong mainstreamed is in the classroom with them.

Yes, it’s incredible that the PP wants more and more and more for her own kid, without caring at all about what that costs the rest of us financially or in terms of trauma and lost education in the classrooms, while she puts down the rest of us who are looking out for our own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

If you're not willing to spend substantially more on special education, it will absolutely turn back into warehousing. Those programs are already overcapacity and understaffed at current funding levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

Violent kids are not being removed from classes because there are no places to send them. The schools that are developed for these kids are expensive, small ratios and specialized rooms/equipment. FCPS, and other counties, do not have the facilities or the money to build/develop the facilities for these kids. Admin is gatekeeping because there is no place to send the kids. And because the reports that show that kids with IEPs are far more likely to be suspended or expelled then kids without IEPs. The numbers are even worse when you include URM with IEPs. The optic is awful and the solution is expensive.

There are kids who have been identified as needing placement who are at home waiting for a spot. The private schools are full and a good number of the private schools for the most disruptive kids are pretty much warehouses. The descriptions of the schools are pretty dire. Most of the private schools that people know about, like McLean, are expensive and will not take physically disruptive kids. A good number of the private SPED schools that people mention will not take kids diagnosed with Autism. The schools are for kids with ADHD and/or LDs.

So while the no brainer solution for everyone is to remove the kid from the classroom, there is no place for those kids to go. the State is obligated to provide an education to every child. The situation would be a bit different if the Federal Government actually funded the programs at the level that they are supposed to but it doesn’t.

I do suspect that there are kids who do not have a medical or mental issue that is leading to their behavior but there are parenting issues at home. Those kids parents are probably ignoring the schools calls and actions and would fight their kid being placed in any special program. The kids with serious mental/health issues that need services have parents who are fighting tooth and nail for services because they know that early intervention will help their kid greatly. While I know some parents of kids with SPED issues whose heads are buried in the sand, most of the parents I know want as much help for their kid, to include smaller classrooms and more supports in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

Violent kids are not being removed from classes because there are no places to send them. The schools that are developed for these kids are expensive, small ratios and specialized rooms/equipment. FCPS, and other counties, do not have the facilities or the money to build/develop the facilities for these kids. Admin is gatekeeping because there is no place to send the kids. And because the reports that show that kids with IEPs are far more likely to be suspended or expelled then kids without IEPs. The numbers are even worse when you include URM with IEPs. The optic is awful and the solution is expensive.

There are kids who have been identified as needing placement who are at home waiting for a spot. The private schools are full and a good number of the private schools for the most disruptive kids are pretty much warehouses. The descriptions of the schools are pretty dire. Most of the private schools that people know about, like McLean, are expensive and will not take physically disruptive kids. A good number of the private SPED schools that people mention will not take kids diagnosed with Autism. The schools are for kids with ADHD and/or LDs.

So while the no brainer solution for everyone is to remove the kid from the classroom, there is no place for those kids to go. the State is obligated to provide an education to every child. The situation would be a bit different if the Federal Government actually funded the programs at the level that they are supposed to but it doesn’t.

I do suspect that there are kids who do not have a medical or mental issue that is leading to their behavior but there are parenting issues at home. Those kids parents are probably ignoring the schools calls and actions and would fight their kid being placed in any special program. The kids with serious mental/health issues that need services have parents who are fighting tooth and nail for services because they know that early intervention will help their kid greatly. While I know some parents of kids with SPED issues whose heads are buried in the sand, most of the parents I know want as much help for their kid, to include smaller classrooms and more supports in the classroom.

Of course if we had unlimited funding then we would pour every resource into every child even if it’s a hundred thousand dollars a year. In practice though, that just can’t happen. We already spend a lot of money on education. I think it’s fair and reasonable to cap the funding at say 2x mainstream funding per child and say that they need to do the best they can with that money. These are kids with such severe needs that there is no cure. It’s not like spending all this money is going to turn them into functioning people who can work as doctors when they graduate in a few years. It would be a continuous waste of taxpayer money to spend even more. We should spend a bit more on problem kids than for a normal kid and of course give everyone one chance to see if mainstream education can work for them (without negatively affecting other students or teacher) but that’s the extent of our obligation IMO. And if it went to a vote, I think the vast majority of the country would vote the same way.

[Anonymous]

Wokeness demands it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

Violent kids are not being removed from classes because there are no places to send them. The schools that are developed for these kids are expensive, small ratios and specialized rooms/equipment. FCPS, and other counties, do not have the facilities or the money to build/develop the facilities for these kids. Admin is gatekeeping because there is no place to send the kids. And because the reports that show that kids with IEPs are far more likely to be suspended or expelled then kids without IEPs. The numbers are even worse when you include URM with IEPs. The optic is awful and the solution is expensive.

There are kids who have been identified as needing placement who are at home waiting for a spot. The private schools are full and a good number of the private schools for the most disruptive kids are pretty much warehouses. The descriptions of the schools are pretty dire. Most of the private schools that people know about, like McLean, are expensive and will not take physically disruptive kids. A good number of the private SPED schools that people mention will not take kids diagnosed with Autism. The schools are for kids with ADHD and/or LDs.

So while the no brainer solution for everyone is to remove the kid from the classroom, there is no place for those kids to go. the State is obligated to provide an education to every child. The situation would be a bit different if the Federal Government actually funded the programs at the level that they are supposed to but it doesn’t.

I do suspect that there are kids who do not have a medical or mental issue that is leading to their behavior but there are parenting issues at home. Those kids parents are probably ignoring the schools calls and actions and would fight their kid being placed in any special program. The kids with serious mental/health issues that need services have parents who are fighting tooth and nail for services because they know that early intervention will help their kid greatly. While I know some parents of kids with SPED issues whose heads are buried in the sand, most of the parents I know want as much help for their kid, to include smaller classrooms and more supports in the classroom.

Of course if we had unlimited funding then we would pour every resource into every child even if it’s a hundred thousand dollars a year. In practice though, that just can’t happen. We already spend a lot of money on education. I think it’s fair and reasonable to cap the funding at say 2x mainstream funding per child and say that they need to do the best they can with that money. These are kids with such severe needs that there is no cure. It’s not like spending all this money is going to turn them into functioning people who can work as doctors when they graduate in a few years. It would be a continuous waste of taxpayer money to spend even more. We should spend a bit more on problem kids than for a normal kid and of course give everyone one chance to see if mainstream education can work for them (without negatively affecting other students or teacher) but that’s the extent of our obligation IMO. And if it went to a vote, I think the vast majority of the country would vote the same way.

The choice is not (a) pay for special ed for these kids; or (b) not pay for special ed for these kids

The choice is (a) pay for special ed for these kids; or (b) wait until they are adult and committing crimes and pay to keep them in jail.

The goal isn't to turn these kids into doctors. The goal is to help those kids that can be helped to become productive members of society.

Unfortunately, a lot of these kids cannot be helped but we don't know exactly which kids are beyond saving until we try to save all of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.

That is exactly my point. You want to expel/suspend first, ask questions later. You're not interested in identifying the supports and services that these kids need, nor are you interested in demanding that schools have the resources to provide those.

Ordinary I would stay this isn't parents' fault, it is MCPS's fault. But your post suggests a much higher level of culpability.

Insulting people is not going to work. Cancel culture is dead - an election was just won/lost because people want problems fixed and they don’t want to be cancelled anymore for stating facts. We’re not going to put any more money as country into trying to mainstream kids who clearly can’t handle that just because their parents are delusional or entitled and don’t want their kid in a facility that is built to handle them. So you can just stop complaining that you’re not getting more money.

And you can just stop complaining that you're not going going to get to warehouse kids with special needs or expel them when they're hard to accomodate.

Quit with the hyperbole. All your talk of “warehousing” kids is over the top and frankly annoying. Representing yourself in such an unlikable way is not going to help your cause.

And I’ll say let’s see what happens about things changing. My guess is that the tide is turning and we’ll start to see a return to some semblance of sanity in the schools over the next couple of years. It will just take one or two brave representatives to start the ball rolling, and then the dam will burst very quickly. The vast majority of people in this country want violent and excessively disruptive kids out of mainstream classrooms. It’s a no brainer. Advocating publicly for leaving things how they are would be political suicide.

Violent kids are not being removed from classes because there are no places to send them. The schools that are developed for these kids are expensive, small ratios and specialized rooms/equipment. FCPS, and other counties, do not have the facilities or the money to build/develop the facilities for these kids. Admin is gatekeeping because there is no place to send the kids. And because the reports that show that kids with IEPs are far more likely to be suspended or expelled then kids without IEPs. The numbers are even worse when you include URM with IEPs. The optic is awful and the solution is expensive.

There are kids who have been identified as needing placement who are at home waiting for a spot. The private schools are full and a good number of the private schools for the most disruptive kids are pretty much warehouses. The descriptions of the schools are pretty dire. Most of the private schools that people know about, like McLean, are expensive and will not take physically disruptive kids. A good number of the private SPED schools that people mention will not take kids diagnosed with Autism. The schools are for kids with ADHD and/or LDs.

So while the no brainer solution for everyone is to remove the kid from the classroom, there is no place for those kids to go. the State is obligated to provide an education to every child. The situation would be a bit different if the Federal Government actually funded the programs at the level that they are supposed to but it doesn’t.

I do suspect that there are kids who do not have a medical or mental issue that is leading to their behavior but there are parenting issues at home. Those kids parents are probably ignoring the schools calls and actions and would fight their kid being placed in any special program. The kids with serious mental/health issues that need services have parents who are fighting tooth and nail for services because they know that early intervention will help their kid greatly. While I know some parents of kids with SPED issues whose heads are buried in the sand, most of the parents I know want as much help for their kid, to include smaller classrooms and more supports in the classroom.

Of course if we had unlimited funding then we would pour every resource into every child even if it’s a hundred thousand dollars a year. In practice though, that just can’t happen. We already spend a lot of money on education. I think it’s fair and reasonable to cap the funding at say 2x mainstream funding per child and say that they need to do the best they can with that money. These are kids with such severe needs that there is no cure. It’s not like spending all this money is going to turn them into functioning people who can work as doctors when they graduate in a few years. It would be a continuous waste of taxpayer money to spend even more. We should spend a bit more on problem kids than for a normal kid and of course give everyone one chance to see if mainstream education can work for them (without negatively affecting other students or teacher) but that’s the extent of our obligation IMO. And if it went to a vote, I think the vast majority of the country would vote the same way.

The choice is not (a) pay for special ed for these kids; or (b) not pay for special ed for these kids

The choice is (a) pay for special ed for these kids; or (b) wait until they are adult and committing crimes and pay to keep them in jail.

The goal isn't to turn these kids into doctors. The goal is to help those kids that can be helped to become productive members of society.

Unfortunately, a lot of these kids cannot be helped but we don't know exactly which kids are beyond saving until we try to save all of them.

I didn’t say that we shouldn’t pay for special services. I said that we should cap our spending. You seem to have the goal of wasting millions (billions?) in the hope of “saving” a few kids from the prison system but the majority of us have a much more pragmatic outlook. If you really acknowledge that these kids are never going to be doctors and the best we can hope for them is very basic labor work and that they stay out of the prison system then you should advocate strongly for tracking. Not that we waste unlimited amounts of money on special services to try to keep kids in mainstream classes who have no business being there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

School admin isn't the gatekeeper. Capacity is. You can't place students in special programs when those special programs don't have seats. You could increase the size of the programs, but that's significantly more expensive than the home school model.

In this instance you are wrong. It most definitely was the admin. in our experience. Funny how there was no capacity issue once an attorney was involved, and the central office staff (who she had not reached out to or even scheduled them to come in for a site visit and consult) attended the meetings. Placement at another school in appropriate program with just 6 students, 1 teacher, and 2 paras. I am speaking experience, an awful one, albeit.