Anonymous wrote:OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.
As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)
Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.
The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.
Wowww. I would not be bragging about this if I were you. You sound jealous of folks with normal kids who actually tell their parents about the day. You hear about your kids day when the school calls to tell you what he has done. Where is your sympathy for the kids your little monster “beat the hell out of”?
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
Because society isn’t about you.
Maybe when you get a social security check or use Medicaid you will understand.
Do you grow your own food? Or do you depend upon others to get it to the store. You are always depending upon people. Always. Money gives you the illusion of independence but in a society we have to work together, it isn’t just you. Civilization is a social compact. We agreed to educate all children. Social compact.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
Because society isn’t about you.
Maybe when you get a social security check or use Medicaid you will understand.
Do you grow your own food? Or do you depend upon others to get it to the store. You are always depending upon people. Always. Money gives you the illusion of independence but in a society we have to work together, it isn’t just you. Civilization is a social compact. We agreed to educate all children. Social compact.
And that is why we educate children who need accommodations also
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
Gee, why don't you pay for only the roads you use too? I wonder why society wasted taxpayer money educating you.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
+1. Gee, I wonder why.
Oh be real. I don’t have a chair thrower and I don’t want virtual school for my kids. Spending 30 + hours a week in front of a screen is developmentally inappropriate for kids (especially elementary age). I don’t blame any parent for not wanting that for their child.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
I shouldn’t be surprised this thread has literally devolved into an argument about people not wanting to pay taxes for CHILDREN to go to SCHOOL. Do you hear yourself? Is this how low we’ve come as a society?
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
I shouldn’t be surprised this thread has literally devolved into an argument about people not wanting to pay taxes for CHILDREN to go to SCHOOL. Do you hear yourself? Is this how low we’ve come as a society?
Not sure why it is so unreasonable to ask parents to chip in on the costs of raising their own children.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
+1. Gee, I wonder why.
Oh be real. I don’t have a chair thrower and I don’t want virtual school for my kids. Spending 30 + hours a week in front of a screen is developmentally inappropriate for kids (especially elementary age). I don’t blame any parent for not wanting that for their child.
You know what else is developmentally inappropriate? Having a chair thrown at you and worrying about violence in your classroom on a daily basis.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
I think it everyone should including the chair throwers. A whole community shouldn’t have to pay taxes just so a few kids should go to school. All parents and only parents with school aged children should pay taxes for education.
Marie Reed has 411 students. Only 28% are in-boundary. It’s budget last year was $8.5m. This is about $20K per student. Tell me why, as a taxpayer whose kids do not go to this school, I need to be paying for any of these kids with my taxes. The kids parents should be paying the $20K per year to educate their kids. Don’t have kids you can’t afford.
I shouldn’t be surprised this thread has literally devolved into an argument about people not wanting to pay taxes for CHILDREN to go to SCHOOL. Do you hear yourself? Is this how low we’ve come as a society?
Not sure why it is so unreasonable to ask parents to chip in on the costs of raising their own children.
The unreasonable part is that nobody else in society should chip in. You're also cool with only victims of crimes paying for police, only drivers who regularly travel long distance paying for interstate highways, only old people paying for Medicare, only people who don't want to be poisoned chipping in for the FDA?
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