Why do teachers allow horribly behaved kids to stay in the classroom and disrupt other kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No child should be allowed to terrorize other children. Why does any parent tolerate that??

I think they get away with it by keeping it all a secret. The parents of the bad kids complain about their privacy and threaten legal action if the teacher talks to the other parents about what’s really happening in the classrooms.

It’s just like what happened during Covid - if parents could truly see how bad things are, they’d care and things would change. But during Covid the parents could only get a glimpse of the low academic standards and poor quality of instruction - they didn’t get to see how some kids terrorize other kids in the classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No child should be allowed to terrorize other children. Why does any parent tolerate that??

They shouldn't, but schools don't want to spend the necessary amount of money on special education programs to deal with it.

It's much cheaper to send kids to a gen ed classroom with minimal supports than to send them to a specialized program with the resources to handle those behaviors. They don't even want to bring more paraeducators to the classrooms, which would often be much cheaper.

[Anonymous]

It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

School admin isn't the gatekeeper. Capacity is. You can't place students in special programs when those special programs don't have seats. You could increase the size of the programs, but that's significantly more expensive than the home school model.

[Anonymous]

Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not the teachers. It is the school’s admin. Gatekeepers to accessing appropriate placements for students.

School systems have also reduced placement opportunities (specialized separate schools and tailored prgms) in favor of the cheaper “home school model.” This benefits no one. No one.

We need smaller localized school districts where you know all of your BOE members & importantly, THEIR kids attend school WITH YOUR kids in the same school, experiencing the same things first hand. Only then when there are shared experiences will there be meaningful change.

If I had it to do all over, I’d never raise a family here in these mega school districts.

Spoken like someone who has never lived in a small district where they know the BOE. Where THEIR kids can beat the crap out of YOUR kid on a daily basis, but nothing will happen because they run the town. It's just choosing nepotism over bureaucracy.

Also, the BOE has zero to do with this. These placements are handled by principals in the counties, with no involvement from anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a child who will, in later years, likely have interactions with the carceral system, whereas your child will be privileged. As equity is our most important value, the privileged need to face more struggle, and the future oppressed need to be able to have more enjoyment in their lives.

NP and a teacher. I recognize this is a troll post, but you're right about one thing. The kids who are acting out like this are likely to end up incarcerated, especially if they're not taught that inappropriate behavior has negative consequences. In most cases it's a parenting issue and the lax discipline policies in schools are doing them no favors. There are also kids with attentive parents who have serious mental health issues and need a lot more support than a public school system can provide.

Thank you for being honest that worthless parenting is a big contributor to this problem. It is.

I agree strongly with the teacher. It’s a parenting problem. The problematic children aren’t special needs.They’re hyper, unfocused and don’t get enough parent attention. Focus is a learned skill, so is not talking out of turn.

Part of the problem also is that schools can’t discipline or remove kids, and of course their parents don’t either.

All of them? How do you know? My kid had multiple head injuries, plus preexisting special needs. You’d have no idea if your child was in class with him. No professional who’s heard our story has anything negative to say about my patenting, but believe me, they walk in the door wondering. Are there many kids whose behavior stems from parenting problems? Possible. But not ALL. That’s so insulting. Look up Phineas Gage if you think my child’s misbehavior was my fault.

You’re arguing to assume zebras not horses when you hear galloping animals. It’s just absurd. Every kid who is misbehaving is not Phineas Gage. Do you care about the well-behaved, determined students in nightmare rooms because of poorly behaving kids? Are each of them as special as yours, or does the fact that you’ve spent a lot of time interacting with ‘professionals’ plural reenacting the Good Will Hunting ‘it’s not your fault’ scene sum you up?

Come on. Get over yourself.

+1 I'm so tired of hearing that we either want kids like this to be warehoused or kicked out. No...we just think that OUR kids have just as much right to an education and safety as the disruptive kids. So if their behavior is disruptive, their parents need to take responsiblitiiy and figure it out. No one should have to sit in a classroom like we've seen described here. Our kids are special too. One child causing damage to 24 other kids, and no one thinks that makes no sense? Selfish selfish selfish.

Except the rest of your post says you want them kicked out.

If you actually wanted to address the problem, you'd be advocating for additional resources in public schools to provide for a combination of supports and services in general
education classrooms and self-contained special programs.

But you obviously don't want to have to pay for that. So instead you want to expel them
from public schools. You're not going to win that battle.

You're to have to decide if you're more interested in pushing for changes that would make things better for all students or (futilely) continuing to push for policies that would make things worse for kids with special needs.

DP. You keep threatening that we’re not going to “win” against you so shouldn’t bother trying. I really don’t know why you keep saying that. I think people have had enough. We have finite resources and we already pay FAR more per student than any other country for education. You’re not going to “win” getting much more money out of us. (At least you correctly acknowledge that in many ways this is a battle and it’s you versus the rest of us.) At some point the burden has to go back on parents - if they want “more” (expensive) for their child than a “special school” (that you seem to call warehouse) then they need to find a way to fit the bill for that themselves. Just like if there were any other problem with their child. Taxpayers can provide a BASIC level of support but your child is ultimately your problem to handle, not mine. I’m sorry. My kids have issues too that are expensive to handle in the way we prefer to handle them, but we don’t expect taxpayers to foot the bill for it. Is it utopia? No. But it’s the real world.

I just want to point out that that is completely false. This fact is commonly thrown around, mostly by conservatives, but it's not true. The US spend per student is around 5th or 6th in the world, but about the same as the other top 20 countries in spending. In fact, of just developed countries, the US is close to average in spending on education.

Moreover, even that is not a fair comparison, because the US provides more services than those countries. Big expenditures that many of those other countries don't have include bussing, for example. We also provide significant special education services - something many other developed countries don't provide at all. We also provide food for children who have food insufficiency (35% of American households), whereas most of those other countries have less than half that in terms of the number of children who actually don't have enough to eat.

So the US is not really spending more money on kids' education than others in real dollars. It's attempting to take care of problems like mental health and food insecurity through the school system rather than address those things head on, and it is otherwise spending about the same or less as other developed nations.

What can't be argued is that our educational outcomes are worse than that of similar countries. Perhaps if we didn't have so many children living in poverty we'd do better. Or maybe if we paid teachers like professionals? Lots of possibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why the powerful teachers union(s) don’t do more to support teachers. They should have their contracts include class size and protection from unsafe students.

There are no powerful teachers unions. They barely have unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um...nobody wants him out of the classroom more than the teacher. Why does the principal allow him to stay in the classroom?

Corrupt parents and administrators g
could be the answer. $$$ in exchange of special treatment.
Disgusting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the teachers, but school administration. Schools should have a room turned into a cell. Poor behaving kids placed inside, paddy-wagon comes by and picks them up and off to juvenile detention.

Oh wait that’s not equitable, never mind.

Yes, that certainly sounds like a thoughtful plan and helpful rhetoric.

It's incredible there isn't more trust, confidence, and support for reform with great ideas like that getting flung around.

Please read the post of this kind of mom^^ - from the locked thread linked to below.

Anonymous wrote:
OP’s kid is a snitch. Give me a chair thrower any day.

As it happens one of ours was very intense in pre-K and ES. No chair throwing necessarily, but he had a lot of challenges, outbursts, and beat the hell out of a few kids over the years. (Normal ES fights, no permanent damage… for those of you scandalized by a little boys being boys.)

Anyway, we’re very rich, and dedicated, got him all the right doctors and meds and therapists (took a ton of effort). And now he’s absolutely THRIVING… has always been 99th percentile academically and is now harnessing that even more, he’s well-liked, happy, works hard, has a lot of friends. Top of his class and has a great life ahead of him.

The point? Reducing a 6 or 7 year old child to “a chair thrower” is a pathetic, weak ass, limp noodle, bullying tactic… suggests to me a parent with no integrity, likely just looking for space to feel better about the mediocre bag of milk you’ve raised.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/735/1154228.page

Many parents with significant means - not just parents in hardscrabble circumstances - truly in their hearts do not give a fk on any level about the damage their kids do to other kids. They are sociopaths raising sociopaths, and different laws like IDEA preclude schools from setting consequences that can be construed as penalizing kids who attack and ‘beat the hell out of’ others. I’m in a similar economic stratum and I see this all the time. People with all the power in the world - according to them! - who twist words and life beyond coherence, where parents objecting to things that hurt their kids are ‘bullying’ abusive kids and their selfish parents.

Parents of violent kids do not see themselves as living in a community, at all. They have no concerns for the victims of their kids, including the teachers. It is what it is.

OK, but with that attitude, you must realize you're going to pick up a lot of enemies and detractors. And that that will ultimately limit your ability to successfully lobby for change.

How cinematic, concerned mamabear. I’m not worried about ‘enemies,’ I’m worried about kids who are, to keep this on topic, horribly behaved per the OP, impacted kids who are appropriately mainstreamed with GenEd and who have parents who actually parent. Why don’t you work on that and give your monitoring of these threads a little break, sweetheart? Kids with SN is that way.

The weird thing is that we should have the same goal- making things better for all students. But you're obviously more interested in hurting kids with special needs. And your hatred of them has blinded you from looking at anything else.

Oh gosh. That IS weird! It is absolutely the primary goal, to harm poor Mason and violate his IEP, is that what you think I wrote? Would you mind directly quoting that?

The issue at hand is how to deal with instances of physical violence and sustained periods of interruption to classroom instruction for the majority - how to keep parents aware, how to support teachers, and how to support learning for all. I’ve become interested and invested after my child’s inclusion room was tasked with integrating a child who has repeated grades and lives a portion of his young life in the principals office because he physically attacks students, and there is no ISS. Neither I nor anyone else to my knowledge has inquired about any SNs or asserted that those are our right to know — so what in the actual fk are you on about, lady?

When I’ve searched for this topic on DCUM your responses come up over years. This is how you support your child? By insisting that other parents are at fault? How telling.