Vent: My son unintentionally shamed my brother, who then "told on me" to our parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is a 42 year old man’s mother making his hard emotional phone calls for him?

Team kid

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it might help you and your son to realize that your brother likely has a disability. Probably if you think about it, you can figure out what the disability is. And it’s worth figuring out because that’s your children’s family history too.

If you have a hidden disability and want accommodations at work, you disclose it and they work with you on what is reasonable. OP should not have to guess. If she needs to explain disability to her child she needs to explain limits and a little about the disability. What kid of message does it send to say "Uncle Joe has a disability. It means he may be able to walk and move his arms and read, but he cannot do laundry or help his parents around the house or hold down any job at all. We don't know the disability, but you must not ask him what he does as a job or what he does all day because it hurts his feelings." My kids would have a field day with this. They would refuse chores or homework and say they have a disability we must not know anything about other than due to disability they will stop doing anything but lounging.

Wouldn't there be far less shame in explaining chronic fatigue or struggles with mood swings or severe ADHD or depression and then sharing what specialists you have seen and what you are trying? Seems far less shameful than Uncle Joe's spends his days on the couch unable to do a chore and then he tells mommy to shut it down if anyone asks any questions about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do your parents want your son to apologize for? He’s 7 years old. They are inquisitive and insistent and all little budding attorneys. Your brother should have had some way to explain himself and the way he is living his life. Maybe as a PP said, you can tell your brother you’re sorry he was uncomfortable. Your son doesn’t need to say anything.

But OP, what do your parents expect to happen when they die? Do they expect you to take over in looking after your brother? Are they going to set up a trust for him, assuming they’ll have assets they can leave for him so he doesn’t blow through everything. If you haven’t had that discussion with them, you should. And if he hasn’t gotten any mental health assessments, he should.

The idea that your brother brought over his dirty laundry for you to do is just mind-blowing.

+1000

Yup exactly. My sister had 5 kids and we all had to glorify her for not having a full time job. That was somewhat okay when the kids were little, but one day the kids were no longer kids, yet she continued to stay home and we all were supposed to praise her for this. Meanwhile her husband got very ill and they had to move into a shack and now she's miserable....but it never occured to her to get a job. And we still have to justify her refusal to get a job.

I don't consider a woman with 5 kids, even if they are in high school, working part-time or even only being SAHM anything like OP's brother's situation. Look into what it costs to have someone prepare meals, help with homework, monitor phone usage, provide emotional support, clean, organize, etc and then get to me.

+1. Five kids is a ton of work at any age. There was a period of time (late elementary, maybe?) where kids were less work. But the amount of time spent coaching/guiding them through school and homework/social situations/college apps/ extra curriculars, etc. was ENORMOUS. Five kids would be a full time job regardless of their ages.

I would agree with you, but here's the thing:

a) they did not guide/coach, etc. We helped the kids with college apps. It was more along the lines of here's a device, byeeeeee
b) my husband and I also have kids and work full-time, including a SN child. Why are we asked to constantly pitch in for their trainwreck?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that children have the right to ask questions and OP seems to have cut the child off.

I would caution you OP that you may not have the full story about your brother and it IS possible he is battling something like chronic fatigue or mental illness that you aren’t privy to. And sometimes treatment for that is impacted if you work, in terms of govt benefits. Yes it’s possible he was raised poorly, is lazy etc but you yourself said you pulled away from the relationship back in his college days. That was a long time ago and long enough for medical information to have popped up to explain some things (and for you not to have been kept in the loop).

It's none of OP's business or her kid's business why her adult brother and adult parents have the arrangement they have. OP should focus on teaching her kid manners and social norms - this type of behavior will not endear him to peers or other adults.

But the bro and parents are making it OP's business by imposing on her. If it's none of her business than stop coming to OP for help. Can't have your cake and eat it too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that children have the right to ask questions and OP seems to have cut the child off.

I would caution you OP that you may not have the full story about your brother and it IS possible he is battling something like chronic fatigue or mental illness that you aren’t privy to. And sometimes treatment for that is impacted if you work, in terms of govt benefits. Yes it’s possible he was raised poorly, is lazy etc but you yourself said you pulled away from the relationship back in his college days. That was a long time ago and long enough for medical information to have popped up to explain some things (and for you not to have been kept in the loop).

It's none of OP's business or her kid's business why her adult brother and adult parents have the arrangement they have. OP should focus on teaching her kid manners and social norms - this type of behavior will not endear him to peers or other adults.

In social settings it is normal for people ask what you do for a living when getting to know you. The kids did nothing wrong. The brother needs some phrases he can give that make him feel comfortable and some ways to shut it down if it continues. He is an adult. If he is emotionally disabled there is no way for OP to know unless somebody shares it. Otherwise they assume he is a mentally healthy enough to answer a typical question without falling apart, telling mommy and dragging her into it. This is NOT normal and it should not be enabled. Even if he is emotionally disabled, I psychologist can help him cope with what should be a minor stress.

First, this is not a peer relationship and secondly, the kid knows his uncle does not work. He became frustrated when his uncle did not provide a satisfactory answer on WHY he does not work. That's nosy and aggressive behavior in a social settings. I would also add that the average 7 year old is well versed in reading body language, they might ask an unfiltered question but they do not become demanding or argumentative when they don't get an answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that children have the right to ask questions and OP seems to have cut the child off.

I would caution you OP that you may not have the full story about your brother and it IS possible he is battling something like chronic fatigue or mental illness that you aren’t privy to. And sometimes treatment for that is impacted if you work, in terms of govt benefits. Yes it’s possible he was raised poorly, is lazy etc but you yourself said you pulled away from the relationship back in his college days. That was a long time ago and long enough for medical information to have popped up to explain some things (and for you not to have been kept in the loop).

It's none of OP's business or her kid's business why her adult brother and adult parents have the arrangement they have. OP should focus on teaching her kid manners and social norms - this type of behavior will not endear him to peers or other adults.

But the bro and parents are making it OP's business by imposing on her. If it's none of her business than stop coming to OP for help. Can't have your cake and eat it too

He is spending time with his sister, if it's an imposition she should have a frank conversation with him/set some boundaries. Let's forget about hurt feelings for a moment, her kid's behavior is a problem for the kid himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do your parents want your son to apologize for? He’s 7 years old. They are inquisitive and insistent and all little budding attorneys. Your brother should have had some way to explain himself and the way he is living his life. Maybe as a PP said, you can tell your brother you’re sorry he was uncomfortable. Your son doesn’t need to say anything.

But OP, what do your parents expect to happen when they die? Do they expect you to take over in looking after your brother? Are they going to set up a trust for him, assuming they’ll have assets they can leave for him so he doesn’t blow through everything. If you haven’t had that discussion with them, you should. And if he hasn’t gotten any mental health assessments, he should.

The idea that your brother brought over his dirty laundry for you to do is just mind-blowing.

+1000

Yup exactly. My sister had 5 kids and we all had to glorify her for not having a full time job. That was somewhat okay when the kids were little, but one day the kids were no longer kids, yet she continued to stay home and we all were supposed to praise her for this. Meanwhile her husband got very ill and they had to move into a shack and now she's miserable....but it never occured to her to get a job. And we still have to justify her refusal to get a job.

I don't consider a woman with 5 kids, even if they are in high school, working part-time or even only being SAHM anything like OP's brother's situation. Look into what it costs to have someone prepare meals, help with homework, monitor phone usage, provide emotional support, clean, organize, etc and then get to me.

Completely agree with this. I'm sure the mother of 5 has plenty of responsibilities to fulfill every day, for her family and herself. and I can almost guarantee that the uncle is not completing any tasks for anyone. He doesn't even do his own laundry.

Not at all comparable.

[Anonymous]

What 7 year old is that curious about what an adult does?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it might help you and your son to realize that your brother likely has a disability. Probably if you think about it, you can figure out what the disability is. And it’s worth figuring out because that’s your children’s family history too.

If you have a hidden disability and want accommodations at work, you disclose it and they work with you on what is reasonable. OP should not have to guess. If she needs to explain disability to her child she needs to explain limits and a little about the disability. What kid of message does it send to say "Uncle Joe has a disability. It means he may be able to walk and move his arms and read, but he cannot do laundry or help his parents around the house or hold down any job at all. We don't know the disability, but you must not ask him what he does as a job or what he does all day because it hurts his feelings." My kids would have a field day with this. They would refuse chores or homework and say they have a disability we must not know anything about other than due to disability they will stop doing anything but lounging.

Wouldn't there be far less shame in explaining chronic fatigue or struggles with mood swings or severe ADHD or depression and then sharing what specialists you have seen and what you are trying? Seems far less shameful than Uncle Joe's spends his days on the couch unable to do a chore and then he tells mommy to shut it down if anyone asks any questions about it.

It's none of her business or her child's business. No one owes her child an explanation for the life they lead. If OP wants to explain to her child why some people don't work she is free to draw from many examples and frame the answer as she sees fit. Her brother is not her dependent, he owes her nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that children have the right to ask questions and OP seems to have cut the child off.

I would caution you OP that you may not have the full story about your brother and it IS possible he is battling something like chronic fatigue or mental illness that you aren’t privy to. And sometimes treatment for that is impacted if you work, in terms of govt benefits. Yes it’s possible he was raised poorly, is lazy etc but you yourself said you pulled away from the relationship back in his college days. That was a long time ago and long enough for medical information to have popped up to explain some things (and for you not to have been kept in the loop).

It's none of OP's business or her kid's business why her adult brother and adult parents have the arrangement they have. OP should focus on teaching her kid manners and social norms - this type of behavior will not endear him to peers or other adults.

But the bro and parents are making it OP's business by imposing on her. If it's none of her business than stop coming to OP for help. Can't have your cake and eat it too

In what way is he imposing on OP? He seems to come by for 1 night 3-4 times a year and gets dinner and breakfast. Oh and he brought his laundry. That's it. She could say no to the vista and/or the laundry. That's it. Nothing else is asked of her. This is far less than most family members expect from one another in terms of child care, money, emotional support, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do your parents want your son to apologize for? He’s 7 years old. They are inquisitive and insistent and all little budding attorneys. Your brother should have had some way to explain himself and the way he is living his life. Maybe as a PP said, you can tell your brother you’re sorry he was uncomfortable. Your son doesn’t need to say anything.

But OP, what do your parents expect to happen when they die? Do they expect you to take over in looking after your brother? Are they going to set up a trust for him, assuming they’ll have assets they can leave for him so he doesn’t blow through everything. If you haven’t had that discussion with them, you should. And if he hasn’t gotten any mental health assessments, he should.

The idea that your brother brought over his dirty laundry for you to do is just mind-blowing.

+1000

Yup exactly. My sister had 5 kids and we all had to glorify her for not having a full time job. That was somewhat okay when the kids were little, but one day the kids were no longer kids, yet she continued to stay home and we all were supposed to praise her for this. Meanwhile her husband got very ill and they had to move into a shack and now she's miserable....but it never occured to her to get a job. And we still have to justify her refusal to get a job.

I don't consider a woman with 5 kids, even if they are in high school, working part-time or even only being SAHM anything like OP's brother's situation. Look into what it costs to have someone prepare meals, help with homework, monitor phone usage, provide emotional support, clean, organize, etc and then get to me.

Completely agree with this. I'm sure the mother of 5 has plenty of responsibilities to fulfill every day, for her family and herself. and I can almost guarantee that the uncle is not completing any tasks for anyone. He doesn't even do his own laundry.

Not at all comparable.

Not if she nor the husband are actually not fulfilling the responsibilities. Sure, there are many responsibiities that we all have, doesn't mean people do them. The brother has a responsibility to actually give back to society and he is not. He has a responsibiity to be a grown up and actually teach a kid about living with a disability but he did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly do your parents want your son to apologize for? He’s 7 years old. They are inquisitive and insistent and all little budding attorneys. Your brother should have had some way to explain himself and the way he is living his life. Maybe as a PP said, you can tell your brother you’re sorry he was uncomfortable. Your son doesn’t need to say anything.

But OP, what do your parents expect to happen when they die? Do they expect you to take over in looking after your brother? Are they going to set up a trust for him, assuming they’ll have assets they can leave for him so he doesn’t blow through everything. If you haven’t had that discussion with them, you should. And if he hasn’t gotten any mental health assessments, he should.

The idea that your brother brought over his dirty laundry for you to do is just mind-blowing.

+1000

Yup exactly. My sister had 5 kids and we all had to glorify her for not having a full time job. That was somewhat okay when the kids were little, but one day the kids were no longer kids, yet she continued to stay home and we all were supposed to praise her for this. Meanwhile her husband got very ill and they had to move into a shack and now she's miserable....but it never occured to her to get a job. And we still have to justify her refusal to get a job.

I don't consider a woman with 5 kids, even if they are in high school, working part-time or even only being SAHM anything like OP's brother's situation. Look into what it costs to have someone prepare meals, help with homework, monitor phone usage, provide emotional support, clean, organize, etc and then get to me.

Completely agree with this. I'm sure the mother of 5 has plenty of responsibilities to fulfill every day, for her family and herself. and I can almost guarantee that the uncle is not completing any tasks for anyone. He doesn't even do his own laundry.

Not at all comparable.

Not if she nor the husband are actually not fulfilling the responsibilities. Sure, there are many responsibiities that we all have, doesn't mean people do them. The brother has a responsibility to actually give back to society and he is not. He has a responsibiity to be a grown up and actually teach a kid about living with a disability but he did not.

There are tons of dead beat fathers out there. This isn't anything new. At list this dad is in the house. But this has nothing to do with OPs situation her brother isn't a dead beat fatter his only responsibility is for himself. He's not even OPs responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

I don’t believe you. Seven year olds are not that obsessed with adult jobs, even in DC. You sound high pressure and anxiety ridden OP. I wouldn’t want to be your brother and I wouldn’t want to be your son!

7 Yo are obsessed with general observations. they like to comment on what they see and what they are thinking---my 7yo always had a running commentary going, often out loud.

No I wouldn't want to be the loser of a brother either--42 and still lives at home, doesn't work and does nothing to help his parents around the house.

However, I'd happily spend 24/7 with a creative, thought provoking 7 yo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

I don’t believe you. Seven year olds are not that obsessed with adult jobs, even in DC. You sound high pressure and anxiety ridden OP. I wouldn’t want to be your brother and I wouldn’t want to be your son!

7 Yo are obsessed with general observations. they like to comment on what they see and what they are thinking---my 7yo always had a running commentary going, often out loud.

No I wouldn't want to be the loser of a brother either--42 and still lives at home, doesn't work and does nothing to help his parents around the house.

However, I'd happily spend 24/7 with a creative, thought provoking 7 yo.

If you're going to invite your adult brother to your home, it would be nice to not let your nosy brat interrogate him. Uncle is a guest in the home and it's inappropriate not funny and cute to treat him that way. OP needs to do better. But, her little apple didn't fall far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

I don’t believe you. Seven year olds are not that obsessed with adult jobs, even in DC. You sound high pressure and anxiety ridden OP. I wouldn’t want to be your brother and I wouldn’t want to be your son!

7 Yo are obsessed with general observations. they like to comment on what they see and what they are thinking---my 7yo always had a running commentary going, often out loud.

No I wouldn't want to be the loser of a brother either--42 and still lives at home, doesn't work and does nothing to help his parents around the house.

However, I'd happily spend 24/7 with a creative, thought provoking 7 yo.

No, they’re not. My DD is 7, and our house and lives are a constant stream of different of 6-9 year olds. None of them would behave the way OPs kid did. And no, they’re not “duds”. I’m actually trying to envision a world where any of them would be so deeply troubled and concerned about an adult’s employment status without being coached.