Trans Non Binary - minority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

It's disingenuous to call this "adhering to a religion"

It is precisely what is going on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

It's disingenuous to call this "adhering to a religion"

It is precisely what is going on here.

No that's just a lame attempt to attach buzzwords

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

DP. It was more rigid but there was so much less focus on one’s individual identity back then. People wanted to be part of a crowd, not distinct from it.

Disagree. I very much felt “othered” by men in the early days of my career. Being a woman was more of my identity than my qualifications. Today no one GAF about your gender/identity. We acknowledge and then it’s no big deal.

I don’t doubt what you’re saying…but that’s not at all what this thread is about.

We were discussing the focus on identity today vs. in the past.

Today, I just feel like me. As the lone woman in a men-dominated profession years ago my gender was up front and center in many of my interactions. Today, it's no big deal. People are what they are and you move on.

We’re talking about how people self identify vs. the labels society wants to put on them. You’re talking about the acceptance of women in the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

It's disingenuous to call this "adhering to a religion"

It is precisely what is going on here.

Agreed. I miss the days when educated people believed in science.

[Anonymous]

Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

No, what makes us sad is bullies like you who think there is a standard that includes "feminine enough." In truth we were all wearing men's 501s with boxer shorts because they were comfy.

You might be thinking of the generation after us, which got into waxing and thongs? That kind of ridiculous standard is part of why we have people like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

“Gender identity” is made up nonsense. It’s not a real thing and could be charitably be called a gender soul, based on people’s feelings. You are free to worship your gender religion, but don’t expect me to join in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

It's disingenuous to call this "adhering to a religion"

+1

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

“Gender identity” is made up nonsense. It’s not a real thing and could be charitably be called a gender soul, based on people’s feelings. You are free to worship your gender religion, but don’t expect me to join in.

+1

I’m not joining the chants and proclamations of a religion I don’t believe in. I would not do it for Islam or Christianity and I’m not doing it for gender ideologists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the most self-indulgent and exhausting non-issue issue of our time.

I'm so tired of people that want to explore their identity being called narcissistic. People change their names or go by nicknames all the time, is that narcissistic?

Often times, yes.

Explore what ever identities you like.

Just don’t make others say falsehoods.

Humans can not change sex.

This constant strawmanning thrown out by the right that trans people are making the argument that they can change sex is exhausting. Nobody is claiming that. Sex ≠ gender and there's a reason it's called transGENDER and not transsex.

So when a form asks for your sex, and you need to circle one: M or F, what does a transgender person pick? It does not say gender, only sex.

You're both right and wrong. There are trans people who believe that gender/gender identity and sex are totally different, and sex is immutable. There are trans people who believe they are one and the same. And there are trans people who believe something somewhere in between.

Sex is not as objective as it seems, really. It's not just XY or XX chromosomes. We have characteristics beyond DNA that make us male or female.

If a transgender person changes their external genitalia, changes their hormone balance which changes their secondary sex characteristics (voice, body shape and composition, fat distribution, facial appearance, temperament, strength, hair growth and loss, etc) it's hard to argue that they aren't changing their sex on some level, if not changing sex entirely. There are some sex characteristics that can be changed at any time of life. There are some that can only be changed before puberty. There are some that can be changed once and never be reverted. And there are some that can never be changed at all. It's not black and white. If a trans woman has little in common with other natal males except that they have XY chromosomes, a larger heart, and a prostate gland, does it really make sense for them to be classified as M? Of course their sex history is relevant to their doctor when getting medical treatment, but that's about it.

Sex actually is chromosomes. It has to do with reproduction. An XX cannot reproduce with another XX. An XY cannot reproduce with an XY. Every single cell in your body indicates whether you are male or female, and this is 100% immutable. No "gender affirming" procedures will ever make an XY "woman" able to bear children with another XY male.

You are referring to secondary sex characteristics. These can be manipulated hormonally and/or surgically altered. But you cannot change sex.

Not yet…

It's still not the same. Trans women are women, but they are also and always will be trans women. There's nothing wrong with that. There is quite a bit wrong with assuming that means you are entitled to a free uterus transplant, or that the cocktail of anti rejection drugs you'd have to take to sustain pregnancy would be good for your unborn kid.

Id add to that it's not that great or safe to take T for years and then have a child, because the effects T has on vaginal tissue are not benign.

When you bring up XXY, or other chromosomal or intersex conditions, you're not talking about being trans. You're talking about people with medical conditions. It's not right for you to appropriate their lives to justify your own, or to deny basic silence for your own vanity.

[Anonymous]

Who wants to be a straight person? So boring. How can I set myself apart as special? Oh use “they/them” as pronouns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

DP. It was more rigid but there was so much less focus on one’s individual identity back then. People wanted to be part of a crowd, not distinct from it.

Disagree. I very much felt “othered” by men in the early days of my career. Being a woman was more of my identity than my qualifications. Today no one GAF about your gender/identity. We acknowledge and then it’s no big deal.

I don’t doubt what you’re saying…but that’s not at all what this thread is about.

We were discussing the focus on identity today vs. in the past.

Today, I just feel like me. As the lone woman in a men-dominated profession years ago my gender was up front and center in many of my interactions. Today, it's no big deal. People are what they are and you move on.

We’re talking about how people self identify vs. the labels society wants to put on them. You’re talking about the acceptance of women in the workforce.

I’m talking about how the focus back then was on my female identity. That was how I was seen and labeled, not simply a competent human.

These days no one (normal) cares about gender. It’s all fluid and acceptable.