Trans Non Binary - minority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

The only people that have made it into something misogynistic are the ones who are against it. You've been successfully propagandized by people who hate women just as much as they hate trans people.

You make it so easy for them when you insist that five year olds care whar gender they are and show us by if they play with trucks.

You make it so easy for them when your activists stalk and harass and bully women, which they do quite a bit whenever a woman speaks up about wanting fair competition in sports, or women only spaces in prisons or domestic violence shelters. You make it easy for women to reject you when you chant slogans that would make Mao proud like they're holy writ, and insist on centering yourself in every conversation about anyone's identity.

I'm fairly sure, bless your heart, that you were radicalized by bots yourself sometime in our century's teens and you've never bothered to develop enough critical thinking skills to realize this. I don't debate things with you people anymore: I treat you like I treat my Mormon relatives. Honestly, you all have a lot in common, starting with your regressice, sexist gender roles.

And you just absolutely wrecked any argument you had whatsoever with this line. Gender identity does not require gender roles and is explicitly against them. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are probably just on here to instigate.

If "gender identity" is against "gender roles," maybe you could explain to us which roles you think are gendered and why? Is the answer none of them for you? So why take cross sex hormones? Why change your pronouns? Why make the effort to alter anything about yourself at all?

Then answer me this: how much of your identity is defined by a fear of being seen as overly masculine or feminine? Or from wanting to conform to masculine or feminine sereotypes? It seems to me that for someone who is supposedly progressive, you jaa e extremely narrow opinions.

Gender identity isn't about being able to take part in different roles. It's not a costume people wear to open up opportunities. It's a reflection of internal self. Someone doesn't know they're a woman because they like to cook or because they want to be a flight attendant or wear makeup in public - that's an asinine suggestion.

What is your "internal self?" If that's all gender is, why do you spend so much time medicalizing it?

Because people like their external appearance to match their internal sense of self. A trans woman who receives hormones isn't saying "all woman look like this" they're saying that this is how they want to present.

Except they're not just saying that. If they were I wouldn't give an eff. Out of the (at least) three people disagreeing with you. I'm the moderate, I think. I think trans women are women. I think their genitals are none of my business. I don't care if I share bathrooms, or if my kid has a trans roommate. Live your life, at the end of the day that's all we all want.

But that tolerance comes with some caveats. I don't think the way gender ideology is explained to kids is healthy. I don't think we should do things like eliminate the term "woman" from women's medicine because it might hurt someone's feelings if they have or don't have a uterus. I don't think we should let violent offenders have roommates they can victimize in prison. I don't think we should discard the thousands of years of history where women--half the population--were raped and murdered, relegated to domestic spheres, and generally treated as sub-citizens because that history doesn't include you, or you find your own more important, or being called a woman hurts your fee-fees.

Assuming that all women have a uterus/are able to give birth/etc is also exclusionary to cis women.

I don't think violent offenders should be allowed to share a cell with anyone. This is the same logic that has been and is still used against lesbians by the way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

I love you and believe we were separated at birth. Everything you said is true.
The whole trans thing has every marker of a religion:
Heretics/nonbelievers - normies
Blasphemy - dead naming/ wrong pronouns
Dogma that cannot be questioned
Patriarchy - this is 100% male lead with females as it ardent followers and enforcers
Mystical beliefs

It is all there.

Don’t forget shaming and excommunication of exiles aka the detrans community.

It is my own opinion that quite a lot of our current "correct" gender ideology boils down to the reductive ugly truth that many cultures don't like effeminate men. They're not always fond of masculine women, either, but it's this real fear of men not being men *enough* that seems to drive a lot of this.

And that's just more misogyny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

The only people that have made it into something misogynistic are the ones who are against it. You've been successfully propagandized by people who hate women just as much as they hate trans people.

You make it so easy for them when you insist that five year olds care whar gender they are and show us by if they play with trucks.

You make it so easy for them when your activists stalk and harass and bully women, which they do quite a bit whenever a woman speaks up about wanting fair competition in sports, or women only spaces in prisons or domestic violence shelters. You make it easy for women to reject you when you chant slogans that would make Mao proud like they're holy writ, and insist on centering yourself in every conversation about anyone's identity.

I'm fairly sure, bless your heart, that you were radicalized by bots yourself sometime in our century's teens and you've never bothered to develop enough critical thinking skills to realize this. I don't debate things with you people anymore: I treat you like I treat my Mormon relatives. Honestly, you all have a lot in common, starting with your regressice, sexist gender roles.

And you just absolutely wrecked any argument you had whatsoever with this line. Gender identity does not require gender roles and is explicitly against them. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are probably just on here to instigate.

If "gender identity" is against "gender roles," maybe you could explain to us which roles you think are gendered and why? Is the answer none of them for you? So why take cross sex hormones? Why change your pronouns? Why make the effort to alter anything about yourself at all?

Then answer me this: how much of your identity is defined by a fear of being seen as overly masculine or feminine? Or from wanting to conform to masculine or feminine sereotypes? It seems to me that for someone who is supposedly progressive, you jaa e extremely narrow opinions.

Gender identity isn't about being able to take part in different roles. It's not a costume people wear to open up opportunities. It's a reflection of internal self. Someone doesn't know they're a woman because they like to cook or because they want to be a flight attendant or wear makeup in public - that's an asinine suggestion.

What is your "internal self?" If that's all gender is, why do you spend so much time medicalizing it?

Because people like their external appearance to match their internal sense of self. A trans woman who receives hormones isn't saying "all woman look like this" they're saying that this is how they want to present.

Except they're not just saying that. If they were I wouldn't give an eff. Out of the (at least) three people disagreeing with you. I'm the moderate, I think. I think trans women are women. I think their genitals are none of my business. I don't care if I share bathrooms, or if my kid has a trans roommate. Live your life, at the end of the day that's all we all want.

But that tolerance comes with some caveats. I don't think the way gender ideology is explained to kids is healthy. I don't think we should do things like eliminate the term "woman" from women's medicine because it might hurt someone's feelings if they have or don't have a uterus. I don't think we should let violent offenders have roommates they can victimize in prison. I don't think we should discard the thousands of years of history where women--half the population--were raped and murdered, relegated to domestic spheres, and generally treated as sub-citizens because that history doesn't include you, or you find your own more important, or being called a woman hurts your fee-fees.

Assuming that all women have a uterus/are able to give birth/etc is also exclusionary to cis women.

I don't think violent offenders should be allowed to share a cell with anyone. This is the same logic that has been and is still used against lesbians by the way!

No it’s not.

It’s highly offensive to suggest that infertile women are not in the same class as women and in the same class of people as men. An infertile women is a woman with a disease or disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

The only people that have made it into something misogynistic are the ones who are against it. You've been successfully propagandized by people who hate women just as much as they hate trans people.

You make it so easy for them when you insist that five year olds care whar gender they are and show us by if they play with trucks.

You make it so easy for them when your activists stalk and harass and bully women, which they do quite a bit whenever a woman speaks up about wanting fair competition in sports, or women only spaces in prisons or domestic violence shelters. You make it easy for women to reject you when you chant slogans that would make Mao proud like they're holy writ, and insist on centering yourself in every conversation about anyone's identity.

I'm fairly sure, bless your heart, that you were radicalized by bots yourself sometime in our century's teens and you've never bothered to develop enough critical thinking skills to realize this. I don't debate things with you people anymore: I treat you like I treat my Mormon relatives. Honestly, you all have a lot in common, starting with your regressice, sexist gender roles.

And you just absolutely wrecked any argument you had whatsoever with this line. Gender identity does not require gender roles and is explicitly against them. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are probably just on here to instigate.

If "gender identity" is against "gender roles," maybe you could explain to us which roles you think are gendered and why? Is the answer none of them for you? So why take cross sex hormones? Why change your pronouns? Why make the effort to alter anything about yourself at all?

Then answer me this: how much of your identity is defined by a fear of being seen as overly masculine or feminine? Or from wanting to conform to masculine or feminine sereotypes? It seems to me that for someone who is supposedly progressive, you jaa e extremely narrow opinions.

Gender identity isn't about being able to take part in different roles. It's not a costume people wear to open up opportunities. It's a reflection of internal self. Someone doesn't know they're a woman because they like to cook or because they want to be a flight attendant or wear makeup in public - that's an asinine suggestion.

What is your "internal self?" If that's all gender is, why do you spend so much time medicalizing it?

Because people like their external appearance to match their internal sense of self. A trans woman who receives hormones isn't saying "all woman look like this" they're saying that this is how they want to present.

Except they're not just saying that. If they were I wouldn't give an eff. Out of the (at least) three people disagreeing with you. I'm the moderate, I think. I think trans women are women. I think their genitals are none of my business. I don't care if I share bathrooms, or if my kid has a trans roommate. Live your life, at the end of the day that's all we all want.

But that tolerance comes with some caveats. I don't think the way gender ideology is explained to kids is healthy. I don't think we should do things like eliminate the term "woman" from women's medicine because it might hurt someone's feelings if they have or don't have a uterus. I don't think we should let violent offenders have roommates they can victimize in prison. I don't think we should discard the thousands of years of history where women--half the population--were raped and murdered, relegated to domestic spheres, and generally treated as sub-citizens because that history doesn't include you, or you find your own more important, or being called a woman hurts your fee-fees.

Assuming that all women have a uterus/are able to give birth/etc is also exclusionary to cis women.

I don't think violent offenders should be allowed to share a cell with anyone. This is the same logic that has been and is still used against lesbians by the way!

You don't understand how subsets of a population work. Yes, not all women have uteruses. Or choose to use them if they do. Not all men have penises or choose to use them, either, but that's never the word you want to erase.

If you can't understand the danger that comes with referring to a marginalized population by just their reproductive body parts... I'd say you weren't born a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

I love you and believe we were separated at birth. Everything you said is true.
The whole trans thing has every marker of a religion:
Heretics/nonbelievers - normies
Blasphemy - dead naming/ wrong pronouns
Dogma that cannot be questioned
Patriarchy - this is 100% male lead with females as it ardent followers and enforcers
Mystical beliefs

It is all there.

Don’t forget shaming and excommunication of exiles aka the detrans community.

I'm glad you brought this up because I've wanted to speak on this for a while. Trans people do not have an issue with de-transitoners. The problem they have is when de-transitioners hold the belief that, because they were wrong about being trans, that everyone else is too.

✔️Heretic

Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go by the stats of one random person who did a training course. Look at where He (she/they) got there data.

Here is one article about the numbers. For the general population, estimates are currently over 1%. Unsurprisingly, the number is higher among the youths. This is probably due to both the "trendiness" of gender identity exploration and that it's more acceptable, the same way the numbers of people identifying as left-handed and gay went up as left-handedness and homosexuality became more acceptable.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-study-estimates-16-million-us-identify-transgender-2022-06-10/

It’s not “trendy” we just used different language.

We said tom boy, or she’s not girly.

What are you talking about? I was a tomboy and/or a "non-girly" girl when I was growing up. I was not and have never been anything other than a cis-gender, heterosexual woman.

Again, you don't understand sex vs. gender vs gender identity vs gender expression.

It's okay, it's just vocabulary that you don't understand.

And you don’t understand that most of us are too busy to care about what every person thinks his sex, gender, gender identity, gender expression, astrological sign, & favorite color is.

You spend a whole lot of time and energy on something you don’t care about.

[Anonymous]

Why is breast such a traumatizing word that a trans man or nonbinary person should be offended by it?

Why? Because people like you tell them it is.

Why? Again misogyny.

[Anonymous]

What is so scary to you all? Why are you so obsessed with other people's preferences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

The only people that have made it into something misogynistic are the ones who are against it. You've been successfully propagandized by people who hate women just as much as they hate trans people.

You make it so easy for them when you insist that five year olds care whar gender they are and show us by if they play with trucks.

You make it so easy for them when your activists stalk and harass and bully women, which they do quite a bit whenever a woman speaks up about wanting fair competition in sports, or women only spaces in prisons or domestic violence shelters. You make it easy for women to reject you when you chant slogans that would make Mao proud like they're holy writ, and insist on centering yourself in every conversation about anyone's identity.

I'm fairly sure, bless your heart, that you were radicalized by bots yourself sometime in our century's teens and you've never bothered to develop enough critical thinking skills to realize this. I don't debate things with you people anymore: I treat you like I treat my Mormon relatives. Honestly, you all have a lot in common, starting with your regressice, sexist gender roles.

And you just absolutely wrecked any argument you had whatsoever with this line. Gender identity does not require gender roles and is explicitly against them. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are probably just on here to instigate.

If "gender identity" is against "gender roles," maybe you could explain to us which roles you think are gendered and why? Is the answer none of them for you? So why take cross sex hormones? Why change your pronouns? Why make the effort to alter anything about yourself at all?

Then answer me this: how much of your identity is defined by a fear of being seen as overly masculine or feminine? Or from wanting to conform to masculine or feminine sereotypes? It seems to me that for someone who is supposedly progressive, you jaa e extremely narrow opinions.

Gender identity isn't about being able to take part in different roles. It's not a costume people wear to open up opportunities. It's a reflection of internal self. Someone doesn't know they're a woman because they like to cook or because they want to be a flight attendant or wear makeup in public - that's an asinine suggestion.

What is your "internal self?" If that's all gender is, why do you spend so much time medicalizing it?

Because people like their external appearance to match their internal sense of self. A trans woman who receives hormones isn't saying "all woman look like this" they're saying that this is how they want to present.

Which curiously always seem they want to "present" as the caricature of a woman. Big/long hair, big t!ts, fake nails, outrageous makeup. It always seems that these people's internal self is a bimbo bursting to come out.

Most trans people don't fit into this stereotype you've come up with. And the ones who don't are frequently made fun of, called ugly, and shamed for not "presenting".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is breast such a traumatizing word that a trans man or nonbinary person should be offended by it?

Why? Because people like you tell them it is.

Why? Again misogyny.

Nobody said anything about anyone being offended. You keep making up strawman arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

I love you and believe we were separated at birth. Everything you said is true.
The whole trans thing has every marker of a religion:
Heretics/nonbelievers - normies
Blasphemy - dead naming/ wrong pronouns
Dogma that cannot be questioned
Patriarchy - this is 100% male lead with females as it ardent followers and enforcers
Mystical beliefs

It is all there.

Don’t forget shaming and excommunication of exiles aka the detrans community.

I'm glad you brought this up because I've wanted to speak on this for a while. Trans people do not have an issue with de-transitoners. The problem they have is when de-transitioners hold the belief that, because they were wrong about being trans, that everyone else is too.

✔️Heretic

Thanks for playing.

Nope!

Why do some de-transitoners get to speak for all trans people? Their personal experiences are theirs alone, and don't represent everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

I love you and believe we were separated at birth. Everything you said is true.
The whole trans thing has every marker of a religion:
Heretics/nonbelievers - normies
Blasphemy - dead naming/ wrong pronouns
Dogma that cannot be questioned
Patriarchy - this is 100% male lead with females as it ardent followers and enforcers
Mystical beliefs

It is all there.

Don’t forget shaming and excommunication of exiles aka the detrans community.

It is my own opinion that quite a lot of our current "correct" gender ideology boils down to the reductive ugly truth that many cultures don't like effeminate men. They're not always fond of masculine women, either, but it's this real fear of men not being men *enough* that seems to drive a lot of this.

And that's just more misogyny.

This is the clearly the case in places like Iran where it’s a solution for gay men.

But it doesn’t explain why gender ideology demands the affirmation of falsehood that humans can change sex.

To understand this, you need to understand the driver of the movement-which is not to shame gay effeminate men, it’s to normalize the falsehood that trans women are exactly like non trans women.

This movement is led by middle aged males who usually become trans women. Their motivation in doing so is that they can only get off on being validated as a woman. Once you understand that these people can only have their sexual desires satisfied by this farce, everything makes sense.

Of course you are correct. it often goes back to a shame and humiliation kink because that is how they see womanhood. It’s pure misogyny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

There's not a "religious component", you've just made that up in your head to justify refusing to learn anything different and be respectful towards others. And that's ok, some people just aren't able to ever mentally understand concepts they don't personally experience, but don't act like you're above other people or on some moral high ground.

Oh, I know I’m on the high ground. I don’t accept deeply misogynist belief structures. That includes gender ideology as well as most religions. You are free to embrace misogynist belief structures as your faith — many people do — but you cannot demand adherence from non-believers. Gender ideology is just repackaged ancient misogyny, a new version of misogynist belief systems that is growing as organized religions lose some of their historic influence.

I don’t have a soul that needs saving and I don’t have a gender identity that needs public fealty and I don’t have an afterlife when I die, particularly when all of those are rooted in belief systems designed to oppress women. You will have to deal with that as much as conservative Christians will have to deal with my lack of a Christian soul. Your distress at my lack of faith in your belief system is not my problem.

The only people that have made it into something misogynistic are the ones who are against it. You've been successfully propagandized by people who hate women just as much as they hate trans people.

You make it so easy for them when you insist that five year olds care whar gender they are and show us by if they play with trucks.

You make it so easy for them when your activists stalk and harass and bully women, which they do quite a bit whenever a woman speaks up about wanting fair competition in sports, or women only spaces in prisons or domestic violence shelters. You make it easy for women to reject you when you chant slogans that would make Mao proud like they're holy writ, and insist on centering yourself in every conversation about anyone's identity.

I'm fairly sure, bless your heart, that you were radicalized by bots yourself sometime in our century's teens and you've never bothered to develop enough critical thinking skills to realize this. I don't debate things with you people anymore: I treat you like I treat my Mormon relatives. Honestly, you all have a lot in common, starting with your regressice, sexist gender roles.

And you just absolutely wrecked any argument you had whatsoever with this line. Gender identity does not require gender roles and is explicitly against them. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are probably just on here to instigate.

If "gender identity" is against "gender roles," maybe you could explain to us which roles you think are gendered and why? Is the answer none of them for you? So why take cross sex hormones? Why change your pronouns? Why make the effort to alter anything about yourself at all?

Then answer me this: how much of your identity is defined by a fear of being seen as overly masculine or feminine? Or from wanting to conform to masculine or feminine sereotypes? It seems to me that for someone who is supposedly progressive, you jaa e extremely narrow opinions.

Gender identity isn't about being able to take part in different roles. It's not a costume people wear to open up opportunities. It's a reflection of internal self. Someone doesn't know they're a woman because they like to cook or because they want to be a flight attendant or wear makeup in public - that's an asinine suggestion.

What is your "internal self?" If that's all gender is, why do you spend so much time medicalizing it?

Because people like their external appearance to match their internal sense of self. A trans woman who receives hormones isn't saying "all woman look like this" they're saying that this is how they want to present.

Which curiously always seem they want to "present" as the caricature of a woman. Big/long hair, big t!ts, fake nails, outrageous makeup. It always seems that these people's internal self is a bimbo bursting to come out.

I used to hang out with a lot of drag queens in the 90s. Not all were particularly trans. Some were. Some of the language others used to describe women started making me uncomfortable enough that I stopped hanging out with them.

But I don't think that experience applies to every trans women. There are plenty who just want to live their lives. Who don't go nuts for overfeminization. Like every woman, however, I've learned some caution when dealing with the overly bimbofied crowd. I think it's important to acknowledge that people's kinks are their own business... but with that comes a responsibility not to drag unconsenting people into it. If it gives you pleasure to dress up as a bimbo I truly do not care. If your pleasure has to include an aggressive act of bringing that into my space, well then I do care a lot. Don't do that and we're good.

[Anonymous]

1. Everyone should be called by the name and pronouns they want to be called by.
2. No one should be shamed for their gender presentation.
3. Probably more research is needed on cross sex hormones and puberty blockers in minors before we determine that they're 100% safe and reversible.
4. It's not worth destroying women's sports.
5. AMAB rapists in women's prison is a bad idea.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets more angry about pronouns than Gen x/boomer women who were bullied for not being feminine enough when they were little girls.

That’s not me. I just simply do not accept the religious component of pronoun demands. I do not believe people have mutable gender identities, any more than I believe people have souls that needs saving. Gender ideology is a religious belief akin to a belief in a soul. I am an atheist and don’t believe in either.

I love you and believe we were separated at birth. Everything you said is true.
The whole trans thing has every marker of a religion:
Heretics/nonbelievers - normies
Blasphemy - dead naming/ wrong pronouns
Dogma that cannot be questioned
Patriarchy - this is 100% male lead with females as it ardent followers and enforcers
Mystical beliefs

It is all there.

Don’t forget shaming and excommunication of exiles aka the detrans community.

It is my own opinion that quite a lot of our current "correct" gender ideology boils down to the reductive ugly truth that many cultures don't like effeminate men. They're not always fond of masculine women, either, but it's this real fear of men not being men *enough* that seems to drive a lot of this.

And that's just more misogyny.

This is the clearly the case in places like Iran where it’s a solution for gay men.

But it doesn’t explain why gender ideology demands the affirmation of falsehood that humans can change sex.

To understand this, you need to understand the driver of the movement-which is not to shame gay effeminate men, it’s to normalize the falsehood that trans women are exactly like non trans women.

This movement is led by middle aged males who usually become trans women. Their motivation in doing so is that they can only get off on being validated as a woman. Once you understand that these people can only have their sexual desires satisfied by this farce, everything makes sense.

Of course you are correct. it often goes back to a shame and humiliation kink because that is how they see womanhood. It’s pure misogyny.

It doesn't, you made that up!