Trans Non Binary - minority?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the most self-indulgent and exhausting non-issue issue of our time.

I'm so tired of people that want to explore their identity being called narcissistic. People change their names or go by nicknames all the time, is that narcissistic?

Often times, yes.

Explore what ever identities you like.

Just don’t make others say falsehoods.

Humans can not change sex.

This constant strawmanning thrown out by the right that trans people are making the argument that they can change sex is exhausting. Nobody is claiming that. Sex ≠ gender and there's a reason it's called transGENDER and not transsex.

So when a form asks for your sex, and you need to circle one: M or F, what does a transgender person pick? It does not say gender, only sex.

You're both right and wrong. There are trans people who believe that gender/gender identity and sex are totally different, and sex is immutable. There are trans people who believe they are one and the same. And there are trans people who believe something somewhere in between.

Sex is not as objective as it seems, really. It's not just XY or XX chromosomes. We have characteristics beyond DNA that make us male or female.

If a transgender person changes their external genitalia, changes their hormone balance which changes their secondary sex characteristics (voice, body shape and composition, fat distribution, facial appearance, temperament, strength, hair growth and loss, etc) it's hard to argue that they aren't changing their sex on some level, if not changing sex entirely. There are some sex characteristics that can be changed at any time of life. There are some that can only be changed before puberty. There are some that can be changed once and never be reverted. And there are some that can never be changed at all. It's not black and white. If a trans woman has little in common with other natal males except that they have XY chromosomes, a larger heart, and a prostate gland, does it really make sense for them to be classified as M? Of course their sex history is relevant to their doctor when getting medical treatment, but that's about it.

Sex actually is chromosomes. It has to do with reproduction. An XX cannot reproduce with another XX. An XY cannot reproduce with an XY. Every single cell in your body indicates whether you are male or female, and this is 100% immutable. No "gender affirming" procedures will ever make an XY "woman" able to bear children with another XY male.

You are referring to secondary sex characteristics. These can be manipulated hormonally and/or surgically altered. But you cannot change sex.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

It’s none of your business.

Clearly sensitive about it...

Free to be me and ..... wait, no. Answer the question! So flexible. I'm impressed with the openmindedness here.

Society is very flexible today. You are very much free to be you. That is, if you are comfortable being you.

Then I decline to answer. Even if that threatens you because its about me and my comfort with regards to why own identity. Just like its about other people who want there to be no mistakes when it comes to them.

That doesn't "threaten" me at all. ??

I don't care about your pronouns (or lack of); I'm just curious why you aren't comfortable sharing yours.

Because why do people need to know? What will they do with the information? What if its held against me? I don't want to give out more information than necessary which is why people don't need my address, email, phone, etc for small interactions. Keep it simple.

Of course you can always decline.

The only reason people ask is to make others feel comfortable. There isn’t some ulterior motive.

The pushback implies there is a motive. "Why, are you not comfortable with yourself?" Why not just "cool, free to decline."

I was wondering if some of the posters who are so vocal against gender identity and transgender people have some underlying personal conflict causing an overreaction.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s pronouns. Just why they weren’t comfortable sharing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the most self-indulgent and exhausting non-issue issue of our time.

I'm so tired of people that want to explore their identity being called narcissistic. People change their names or go by nicknames all the time, is that narcissistic?

Often times, yes.

Explore what ever identities you like.

Just don’t make others say falsehoods.

Humans can not change sex.

This constant strawmanning thrown out by the right that trans people are making the argument that they can change sex is exhausting. Nobody is claiming that. Sex ≠ gender and there's a reason it's called transGENDER and not transsex.

So when a form asks for your sex, and you need to circle one: M or F, what does a transgender person pick? It does not say gender, only sex.

You're both right and wrong. There are trans people who believe that gender/gender identity and sex are totally different, and sex is immutable. There are trans people who believe they are one and the same. And there are trans people who believe something somewhere in between.

Sex is not as objective as it seems, really. It's not just XY or XX chromosomes. We have characteristics beyond DNA that make us male or female.

If a transgender person changes their external genitalia, changes their hormone balance which changes their secondary sex characteristics (voice, body shape and composition, fat distribution, facial appearance, temperament, strength, hair growth and loss, etc) it's hard to argue that they aren't changing their sex on some level, if not changing sex entirely. There are some sex characteristics that can be changed at any time of life. There are some that can only be changed before puberty. There are some that can be changed once and never be reverted. And there are some that can never be changed at all. It's not black and white. If a trans woman has little in common with other natal males except that they have XY chromosomes, a larger heart, and a prostate gland, does it really make sense for them to be classified as M? Of course their sex history is relevant to their doctor when getting medical treatment, but that's about it.

Delulu

Every cell in our body is xx or xy

Stop using pseudoscience to justify normalizing mental illness and sexual paraphilias.

The incessant know-it-all-ism and superiority complex that people like you have is why nobody respects you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the most self-indulgent and exhausting non-issue issue of our time.

I'm so tired of people that want to explore their identity being called narcissistic. People change their names or go by nicknames all the time, is that narcissistic?

Often times, yes.

Explore what ever identities you like.

Just don’t make others say falsehoods.

Humans can not change sex.

This constant strawmanning thrown out by the right that trans people are making the argument that they can change sex is exhausting. Nobody is claiming that. Sex ≠ gender and there's a reason it's called transGENDER and not transsex.

So when a form asks for your sex, and you need to circle one: M or F, what does a transgender person pick? It does not say gender, only sex.

You're both right and wrong. There are trans people who believe that gender/gender identity and sex are totally different, and sex is immutable. There are trans people who believe they are one and the same. And there are trans people who believe something somewhere in between.

Sex is not as objective as it seems, really. It's not just XY or XX chromosomes. We have characteristics beyond DNA that make us male or female.

If a transgender person changes their external genitalia, changes their hormone balance which changes their secondary sex characteristics (voice, body shape and composition, fat distribution, facial appearance, temperament, strength, hair growth and loss, etc) it's hard to argue that they aren't changing their sex on some level, if not changing sex entirely. There are some sex characteristics that can be changed at any time of life. There are some that can only be changed before puberty. There are some that can be changed once and never be reverted. And there are some that can never be changed at all. It's not black and white. If a trans woman has little in common with other natal males except that they have XY chromosomes, a larger heart, and a prostate gland, does it really make sense for them to be classified as M? Of course their sex history is relevant to their doctor when getting medical treatment, but that's about it.

Sex actually is chromosomes. It has to do with reproduction. An XX cannot reproduce with another XX. An XY cannot reproduce with an XY. Every single cell in your body indicates whether you are male or female, and this is 100% immutable. No "gender affirming" procedures will ever make an XY "woman" able to bear children with another XY male.

You are referring to secondary sex characteristics. These can be manipulated hormonally and/or surgically altered. But you cannot change sex.

Not yet…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s pronouns. Just why they weren’t comfortable sharing.

I thought we were moving on now. Feel free to share or not, whatever makes you comfortable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s pronouns. Just why they weren’t comfortable sharing.

I thought we were moving on now. Feel free to share or not, whatever makes you comfortable.

Great. No more complaints about gender identity then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s pronouns. Just why they weren’t comfortable sharing.

I thought we were moving on now. Feel free to share or not, whatever makes you comfortable.

Great. No more complaints about gender identity then?

I never complained. Funny that there might be more than a few people posting here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

NP here. I feel very comfortable with my pronouns. I think it is an annoying waste of time for a long line of female-presenting and male-presenting college tour guides say their name and declare that they are she/her and he/him, respectively. But I just inwardly roll my eyes. When someone asks me (a female-presenting mom of 3 kids) to clarify my pronouns, I also inwardly roll my eyes.

Great. So can we move on, now?

I wish. The "I must know everyone's pronouns" poster (you?) is clearly not ready to move on.

I didn’t ask for anyone’s pronouns. Just why they weren’t comfortable sharing.

I thought we were moving on now. Feel free to share or not, whatever makes you comfortable.

Great. No more complaints about gender identity then?

I never complained. Funny that there might be more than a few people posting here.

Guess we’ll see if we’re really moving on. 👍

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

[Anonymous]

When is it best to go nonbinary and what’s the minimum threshold for passing as nonbinary for college admissions? Does one need to force the school to use they them pronouns? Does there need to be a paper trail of some kind?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has got to be the most self-indulgent and exhausting non-issue issue of our time.

I'm so tired of people that want to explore their identity being called narcissistic. People change their names or go by nicknames all the time, is that narcissistic?

Often times, yes.

Explore what ever identities you like.

Just don’t make others say falsehoods.

Humans can not change sex.

This constant strawmanning thrown out by the right that trans people are making the argument that they can change sex is exhausting. Nobody is claiming that. Sex ≠ gender and there's a reason it's called transGENDER and not transsex.

So when a form asks for your sex, and you need to circle one: M or F, what does a transgender person pick? It does not say gender, only sex.

You're both right and wrong. There are trans people who believe that gender/gender identity and sex are totally different, and sex is immutable. There are trans people who believe they are one and the same. And there are trans people who believe something somewhere in between.

Sex is not as objective as it seems, really. It's not just XY or XX chromosomes. We have characteristics beyond DNA that make us male or female.

If a transgender person changes their external genitalia, changes their hormone balance which changes their secondary sex characteristics (voice, body shape and composition, fat distribution, facial appearance, temperament, strength, hair growth and loss, etc) it's hard to argue that they aren't changing their sex on some level, if not changing sex entirely. There are some sex characteristics that can be changed at any time of life. There are some that can only be changed before puberty. There are some that can be changed once and never be reverted. And there are some that can never be changed at all. It's not black and white. If a trans woman has little in common with other natal males except that they have XY chromosomes, a larger heart, and a prostate gland, does it really make sense for them to be classified as M? Of course their sex history is relevant to their doctor when getting medical treatment, but that's about it.

Sex actually is chromosomes. It has to do with reproduction. An XX cannot reproduce with another XX. An XY cannot reproduce with an XY. Every single cell in your body indicates whether you are male or female, and this is 100% immutable. No "gender affirming" procedures will ever make an XY "woman" able to bear children with another XY male.

You are referring to secondary sex characteristics. These can be manipulated hormonally and/or surgically altered. But you cannot change sex.

I disagree. Sex is the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females. Chromosomes are part of that sum. To me, not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

NP. It just means that the campus has a lot of adherents to a new religion. Do with that what you will.

It's disingenuous to call this "adhering to a religion"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, I accept everyone and want people to be whomever they feel, believe, etc are. But at a training course, I was told that about 1-3% of the population is trans/non binary. We’ve been on tours at Brown, Tulane, William and Mary, Northeastern, Wake, and GW in the last 2.5 months and there has been at least one tour guide everytime said “they them”
for pronouns.

Was the presenter at my course wrong? I didn’t mishear it because we got a handout. Maybe the general nonbinary population is low but it’s higher for college students?

they/them is not the same as trans non-binary.

then what's the difference?

Too many labels for people who don't want to be labeled.

I posted a link to explain it.

I agree the English language and science has lots of words.

DP: You are being too cute by half. The point PP was making is why does this generation need to put everyone in little boxes with labels? Why does they feel this is necessary or useful? What's wrong with the free to be you and me generation with no labels?

We had labels - very strict labels. Today they are much more flexible.

No one is hurting you with their own self identify/expression. Chill TF down.

Having multiple labels is by definition much more rigid and strict. Having 2 broad labels was much more flexible indicating a spectrum. Now people who think they don't fit on the spectrum need a much more narrow, strict definition. You have this completely backwards.

No, it wasn’t “more flexible” to just have 2 labels. And it was almost impossible to freely change.

It was way more rigid and strict back then.

Do you know what rigid means?

Yes. Do you?

How can anyone sincerely argue that it was LESS rigid back then? What is your agenda?

So , they, one word, is more flexible than 2 words like him or her. So, fewer word is better. Like i was saying.

You may prefer two gendered pronouns, but it’s not “more flexible”.

So the more words the less flexible. You’re catching on!

No, society is much more fluid and accepting these days. Except for the boomers.

You realize this is a fad and the kids will get bored of it soon, right?

Ok. Doesn’t affect me in any way.

I’m just happy that society is moving past rigid ideas on gender/identity. People (minus boomers) are much more accepting of the humans around them.

You make a mistake in assuming a fad is permanent. Its a pendulum and due to swing back the other way. Back to free to be me and you. Stop trying to put everyone in a neat little box. We are more alike than we are different.

You are completely “free to be me and you” right now. More so than any time in the past.

No one is putting you in the box. Quite the opposite.

Then stop insisting everyone name and share their pronouns, let me be me.

You don’t feel comfortable with your pronouns?

It’s none of your business.

Clearly sensitive about it...

Free to be me and ..... wait, no. Answer the question! So flexible. I'm impressed with the openmindedness here.

Society is very flexible today. You are very much free to be you. That is, if you are comfortable being you.

Then I decline to answer. Even if that threatens you because its about me and my comfort with regards to why own identity. Just like its about other people who want there to be no mistakes when it comes to them.

That doesn't "threaten" me at all. ??

I don't care about your pronouns (or lack of); I'm just curious why you aren't comfortable sharing yours.

Because why do people need to know? What will they do with the information? What if its held against me? I don't want to give out more information than necessary which is why people don't need my address, email, phone, etc for small interactions. Keep it simple.

Of course you can always decline.

The only reason people ask is to make others feel comfortable. There isn’t some ulterior motive.

The pushback implies there is a motive. "Why, are you not comfortable with yourself?" Why not just "cool, free to decline."

I was wondering if some of the posters who are so vocal against gender identity and transgender people have some underlying personal conflict causing an overreaction.

Like all the gay GOp members who hate gay people.