For those well-meaning social workers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.

1) Hospice nurse evaluated her and she’s of sound mind, even now. They evaluate every time they are here. Therefore no one can force her to go to a nursing home. Social worker said even if everyone was to leave and abandon her at home, they would just find her dead one day on the floor or in bed. Happens all the time with stubborn people who refuse help.

2) Once again for the people in the cheap seats: She owns the house, we are the bank, and she welched on the mortgage decades ago. My husband didn’t throw her out. In hindsight, he should have foreclosed.

3) There has to be an actual bed available in the hospice she’s using (Did you not see she’s using hospice services??) She’s on the list but there is not one available yet. And she has to agree to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

Stop listening to bad advice. Yes you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.

1) Hospice nurse evaluated her and she’s of sound mind, even now. They evaluate every time they are here. Therefore no one can force her to go to a nursing home. Social worker said even if everyone was to leave and abandon her at home, they would just find her dead one day on the floor or in bed. Happens all the time with stubborn people who refuse help.

2) Once again for the people in the cheap seats: She owns the house, we are the bank, and she welched on the mortgage decades ago. My husband didn’t throw her out. In hindsight, he should have foreclosed.

3) There has to be an actual bed available in the hospice she’s using (Did you not see she’s using hospice services??) She’s on the list but there is not one available yet. And she has to agree to go.

Leave the woman alone. You don’t get it and are getting bad advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

Stop listening to bad advice. Yes you can.

So I take the word of some rando on the internet over a trained professional who knows this state’s law? OK then

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.

1) Hospice nurse evaluated her and she’s of sound mind, even now. They evaluate every time they are here. Therefore no one can force her to go to a nursing home. Social worker said even if everyone was to leave and abandon her at home, they would just find her dead one day on the floor or in bed. Happens all the time with stubborn people who refuse help.

2) Once again for the people in the cheap seats: She owns the house, we are the bank, and she welched on the mortgage decades ago. My husband didn’t throw her out. In hindsight, he should have foreclosed.

3) There has to be an actual bed available in the hospice she’s using (Did you not see she’s using hospice services??) She’s on the list but there is not one available yet. And she has to agree to go.

Leave the woman alone. You don’t get it and are getting bad advice.

When do you arrive to take over care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

Stop listening to bad advice. Yes you can.

Oh, and I do not have legal medical power of attorney. So no, I can’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

Stop listening to bad advice. Yes you can.

Oh, and I do not have legal medical power of attorney. So no, I can’t

Yes, you can. I did it without that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.

1) Hospice nurse evaluated her and she’s of sound mind, even now. They evaluate every time they are here. Therefore no one can force her to go to a nursing home. Social worker said even if everyone was to leave and abandon her at home, they would just find her dead one day on the floor or in bed. Happens all the time with stubborn people who refuse help.

2) Once again for the people in the cheap seats: She owns the house, we are the bank, and she welched on the mortgage decades ago. My husband didn’t throw her out. In hindsight, he should have foreclosed.

3) There has to be an actual bed available in the hospice she’s using (Did you not see she’s using hospice services??) She’s on the list but there is not one available yet. And she has to agree to go.

Leave the woman alone. You don’t get it and are getting bad advice.

When do you arrive to take over care?

I’ve done it for years. Your turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

The hospice worker cannot make medical decision for her. And, yes, you can step in and have. You need to stop if you don't want to actually help.

I cannot make the legal decision. They told me she has to be totally incapacitated mentally, like in a coma or incoherent.

Stop listening to bad advice. Yes you can.

So I take the word of some rando on the internet over a trained professional who knows this state’s law? OK then

If you knew they were right you would not be posting here. Just walk away as you are making it worse. Social worker is incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.

Really? This kind of cleared things up for me. The aunt is not a nice person, OP has been pressured by her mom to take care of this aunt for decades, and OP and her husband have essentially paying the aunt’s mortgage for 20 years with the plan of getting the house when she died. This is why the OP is invested in her aunt’s care, no one else is, and the OP doesn’t want to use her aunt’s home as an asset to pay for her end of life care.

[Anonymous]

I think OP is being unfairly criticised here.

Some of you seem to think that OP should be making decisions about her aunt's end of life care. Why? She is her aunt's NIECE, not her aunt's daughter.
OP stated from the start that she comes from a large family with 30+ nieces and nephews. Why should OP make all the effort here while other family members can sit back and have a nice life?

OP just happens to be the one who is physically there in person. This doesn't mean she should be burdened with end of life decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is being unfairly criticised here.

Some of you seem to think that OP should be making decisions about her aunt's end of life care. Why? She is her aunt's NIECE, not her aunt's daughter.
OP stated from the start that she comes from a large family with 30+ nieces and nephews. Why should OP make all the effort here while other family members can sit back and have a nice life?

OP just happens to be the one who is physically there in person. This doesn't mean she should be burdened with end of life decisions.

Correct.

Also correct: nobody (social workers, doctors, other family members, etc) other than a judge can make the decision to override the aunt's decisions about whether to accept care, and it's nobody's fault that they aren't doing what they can't do. Even if other people think they should, and even if those people feel pushed into a difficult spot. This is just a bad situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is being unfairly criticised here.

Some of you seem to think that OP should be making decisions about her aunt's end of life care. Why? She is her aunt's NIECE, not her aunt's daughter.
OP stated from the start that she comes from a large family with 30+ nieces and nephews. Why should OP make all the effort here while other family members can sit back and have a nice life?

OP just happens to be the one who is physically there in person. This doesn't mean she should be burdened with end of life decisions.

I think most people are saying the opposite of that. OP should go. Her aunt should be making her own decisions about her end of life care. If she wants to die at home alone, then she should be able to do that. If she wants to sell her house to pay for end of life care instead of leaving it to OP, then she should be able to do that too. OP and her husband made a stupid financial decision with the house when they didn’t actually foreclose on the house and legally put it in their names when the aunt stopped paying her mortgage and they let her live there. This isn’t the social worker’s fault. At all.