For those well-meaning social workers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

You seem unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Once someone is in hospice they need 24/7 care. That is not what hospice does. They either need 24/7 volunteers, paid help or a nursing home/hospice facility. She should not be caring for herself and handling her own medications. All they can do is ask others to help. They cannot do that kind of help. If she has money, hire a caregiver. If she has no money, she should go to a nursing home under long term care medicaid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

You seem unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Once someone is in hospice they need 24/7 care. That is not what hospice does. They either need 24/7 volunteers, paid help or a nursing home/hospice facility. She should not be caring for herself and handling her own medications. All they can do is ask others to help. They cannot do that kind of help. If she has money, hire a caregiver. If she has no money, she should go to a nursing home under long term care medicaid.

A) She refuses to leave the house so that’s that - MediCARE would pay for hospital or short-term group home and she refuses to go
B) Totally broke and in debt
C) Meager SS and pension combined put her over the limit for Medicaid.

Social worker said “These are the people I find dead on the floor of their home, and frankly? Not a darn thing you can do”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

OP, it sounds like your aunt is a very difficult woman. Is this the reason no one else from your large family came out to give practical, hands on care to your aunt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

OP, it sounds like your aunt is a very difficult woman. Is this the reason no one else from your large family came out to give practical, hands on care to your aunt?

I’m quite sure that’s it, frankly. And if my mother had not been ill herself, I would not be here either. Did I mention she introduced her aide as ‘her slave’ to her friend yesterday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

You seem unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Once someone is in hospice they need 24/7 care. That is not what hospice does. They either need 24/7 volunteers, paid help or a nursing home/hospice facility. She should not be caring for herself and handling her own medications. All they can do is ask others to help. They cannot do that kind of help. If she has money, hire a caregiver. If she has no money, she should go to a nursing home under long term care medicaid.

A) She refuses to leave the house so that’s that - MediCARE would pay for hospital or short-term group home and she refuses to go
B) Totally broke and in debt
C) Meager SS and pension combined put her over the limit for Medicaid.

Social worker said “These are the people I find dead on the floor of their home, and frankly? Not a darn thing you can do”

Its not a choice. You put her in the hospital or you find a long term medicaid nursing home and put her in and do the paperwork. You have ZERO idea what you are talking about. The nursing home program is different than regular medicaid and has different income eligibility limits. Medicare will not pay for a short-term group home.

And, yes, I do know because I involuntarily put my MIL in a long term medicaid nursing home. She was not eligible for medicaid but got the long term care medicaid.

Grow up and stop excepting someone else to handle this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

OP, it sounds like your aunt is a very difficult woman. Is this the reason no one else from your large family came out to give practical, hands on care to your aunt?

I’m quite sure that’s it, frankly. And if my mother had not been ill herself, I would not be here either. Did I mention she introduced her aide as ‘her slave’ to her friend yesterday?

She probably has some dementia and that behavior is normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

OP, it sounds like your aunt is a very difficult woman. Is this the reason no one else from your large family came out to give practical, hands on care to your aunt?

I’m quite sure that’s it, frankly. And if my mother had not been ill herself, I would not be here either. Did I mention she introduced her aide as ‘her slave’ to her friend yesterday?

She probably has some dementia and that behavior is normal.

Nope. Sharp as a tack

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

You seem unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Once someone is in hospice they need 24/7 care. That is not what hospice does. They either need 24/7 volunteers, paid help or a nursing home/hospice facility. She should not be caring for herself and handling her own medications. All they can do is ask others to help. They cannot do that kind of help. If she has money, hire a caregiver. If she has no money, she should go to a nursing home under long term care medicaid.

A) She refuses to leave the house so that’s that - MediCARE would pay for hospital or short-term group home and she refuses to go
B) Totally broke and in debt
C) Meager SS and pension combined put her over the limit for Medicaid.

Social worker said “These are the people I find dead on the floor of their home, and frankly? Not a darn thing you can do”

Its not a choice. You put her in the hospital or you find a long term medicaid nursing home and put her in and do the paperwork. You have ZERO idea what you are talking about. The nursing home program is different than regular medicaid and has different income eligibility limits. Medicare will not pay for a short-term group home.

And, yes, I do know because I involuntarily put my MIL in a long term medicaid nursing home. She was not eligible for medicaid but got the long term care medicaid.

Grow up and stop excepting someone else to handle this.

. Let me put this simply:

She
Cannot
Go
On
Medicaid
According
To
The
Social
Worker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.

Same, OP. I won't read past page 2 on this, but the pile-on so far is way over the top, even by DCUM standards. You are right: the situation is terrible and the social worker knows that. Pretending the problem is you is plain old gaslighting.

The social worker can guide OP but ultimately it is on OP, not on the social worker. You clearly don't get how this works.

I’m not her daughter or her legal medical proxy. It’s up to my aunt and to the hospice social worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really does haunt you. You did your very best, and you were present. I hope that helps ease the memories.

We are really bad as a society at letting the situation have to get to this point. It's happening over and over again, everywhere in this country.

Thank you. This new social worker and hospice is SO good at putting things in perspective. I was feeling so guilty about having to divide my time and they really set me straight, telling me that my aunt is choosing her own fate, has options now, and won’t take them. It was important to hear that from the professionals, who have experienced this situation over and over.

The only advice I can give people is make sure the hospice you choose is non-profit and takes donations. World of difference. The other one was trying to guilt people into doing their job, asking 80 something year old friends of my aunt to do shiftwork. They were appalled, said they’d be here when they can (and have been visiting) but that’s all they could do. Her neighbor next door is a retired police officer and has been lovely as well. People are less afraid to come around since the switch in hospice.

You seem unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Once someone is in hospice they need 24/7 care. That is not what hospice does. They either need 24/7 volunteers, paid help or a nursing home/hospice facility. She should not be caring for herself and handling her own medications. All they can do is ask others to help. They cannot do that kind of help. If she has money, hire a caregiver. If she has no money, she should go to a nursing home under long term care medicaid.

A) She refuses to leave the house so that’s that - MediCARE would pay for hospital or short-term group home and she refuses to go
B) Totally broke and in debt
C) Meager SS and pension combined put her over the limit for Medicaid.

Social worker said “These are the people I find dead on the floor of their home, and frankly? Not a darn thing you can do”

Its not a choice. You put her in the hospital or you find a long term medicaid nursing home and put her in and do the paperwork. You have ZERO idea what you are talking about. The nursing home program is different than regular medicaid and has different income eligibility limits. Medicare will not pay for a short-term group home.

And, yes, I do know because I involuntarily put my MIL in a long term medicaid nursing home. She was not eligible for medicaid but got the long term care medicaid.

Grow up and stop excepting someone else to handle this.

What part of hospice and pancreatic cancer and dying soon do you not get??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^And that's not because the social workers or doctors hate you, OP, or want to make your life miserable, or don't care about you, or her. It's because they CAN'T change it, anymore than you can.

Not without a declaration of incompetence and placement.

I suspect they know that she is not at that point yet, even if you might think she is. I suspect that disconnect is at the root of your anger, but they can't fix it.

And as I said, the new hospice is non-profit and thus can take donations. They do so much more and I intend to donate as well from her home proceeds. Why some of you don’t understand there are good and bad hospices and social workers is beyond me, but this is DCUM and there you are! TBH, I find the people in the DC area to be insufferable and plan to leave

This really is very hard. I've been through this three times. Yes, there are good and bad staff everywhere. It is not, however, the fault of a social worker that your aunt doesn't qualify for Medicaid. If her assets are over the line, even by a smidgen, then it is too much. Rather than railing against the person, ask them how you can divest the asset in order for her to qualify. And the reality is, if your aunt really is so close to her final days, there is no way she would qualify for Medicaid on such a short turnaround. In the state where I handled this with my parents, I think the state has up to 45 days to make a determination on an application. I can't remember how long it takes after that for there to be an expenditure of funds.

And non profits are often more flexible. They can't and don't violate Medicaid rules, but sometimes have other resources to help a family. I had family members in three different settings. While the staff at the for profit nursing home where my dad lived were all incredibly nice, the overall services at the nonprofit where my mother was for her last years were much, much better. And my older sibling passed away in an county-run adult residential home for individuals with developmental disabilities where they also had hospice in place services. It is very, very hard to get a bed in a physical hospice.

GL to you, OP.

Not blaming the social worker about Medicaid. It is what it is. I don’t know where you got that idea? Medicaid has look back rules. My aunt will be gone in a few days, nurse said. A younger retired friend who’s done this before has come to help as paid aide. Godsend. The real issue here is my aunt is so stubborn, she’s refused all places in these very last days, insisting on staying home, not really understanding the burden she’s placed on me and the dangerous situation she’s placed herself in.

The other social worker was only interested in taking everything they could financially because she was not eligible for Medicaid - she just missed the cutoff due to a small pension on top of SS. Perhaps blame is a stretch but the staff's hands may be tied on what they can do, especially if this hospice is connected to a corporation. Who chose this hospice for your aunt? So hard to get hospice beds, but my experience has been that the non-profit ones are often better simply because care, not return to shareholders, is what guides their mission.

That is true - the OTHER social worker threatened to take all her assets if I dared even ask for respite care, which MediCARE pays for. As I said, the same hospice blamed me AND my aunt for stealing fentanyl patches the nurse herself put in another box. We found them before her terse, accusatory phone call to me. I’d call it a one-off until she blamed me a SECOND time for medicating my aunt too early, when her CNA clearly did it. I was at my folks (all three in the household can vouch for that), and came back to my aunt’s at the same time the CNA was leaving. I looked immediately in her clearly marked med box to find ALL the PM pills she was supposed to have at 8 PM gone. All the CNA was to do was give my aunt ONE of the breakthrough meds if she asked for it due to pain. I put a chart on the wall daily in plain sight with the AM meds, what they were, and what time they were given. It was not a hard job, and the CNA STILL managed to f it up. It’s clear they were not the right hospice so I changed to another and it’s been so much better.

The cancer center recommended the other hospice to my aunt.

You don't get all this. Medicare does not pay for respite. Medicaid might depending on what state you are in. Medicaid also pays for long term nursing homes BUT they do require you to have limited assests and if you have things like a home, they don't require you to sell it but they put a lien on the home to pay back for the care.

Hospice doesn't run daily care. A family member or private agency does.

If the medication is missing it can be an issue for hospice. They need to stop giving out medication if the caretakers cannot handle it properly.

God, some of you are so clueless and love to start with “you don’t get this’ when indeed it is the poster who doesn’t: Social worker said medicare DOES pay for 5 day inpatient hospice. Then they get sent home. Where the donations kick in is the hospice can use those donations to keep the person longer. The new hospice has provided almost daily nursing care and CNA care.

My aunt does NOT own the home. WE do, and hospice has already stated it’s untouchable as a result. We acted as the bank for her and she welched on the mortgage after one payment 22 years ago and my husband was too kind to evict her. The legal paperwork he filed ensured he would get his money back when she passed, and he didn’t need it immediately. I found out yesterday she was telling all my cousins and aunts and uncles that she’s been renting the house from us, has been paying rent all these years, and that my husband is a slumlord because he would not ‘fix up the house’. The house is in very good condition. She lied about her income as well. That jives with a nasty letter she wrote my husband over a decade ago stating that ‘since she stopped paying the mortgage, we now own the house and it’s our responsibility to provide anything she asks for’. When confronted with the letter, she claimed she didn’t remember writing that, and it must’ve been due to the narcotics she needs for pain. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now and I’m glad most of my relatives didn’t really believe her anyway.

A younger friend of my aunt’s has stepped in to care for her in exchange for her relatively new vehicle. I was helping my aunt because it was important to my mother, given it was her sister. My mother told me yesterday after what she’s found out from her family in recent days, she doesn’t give a raging crap anymore. Starting tomorrow, I’ll be moving to my mother’s and father’s house for a couple weeks to enjoy their company and help, then go home to prepare for my parents move back east this spring. That’s a huge ray of sunshine right there.

Your post makes zero sense. ZERO! If she is that ill, take her to the hospital and they can deal with her and get her into a nursing home. Medicare pays for hospice. Very few places have hospice facilities but if your area does, take her there and put her in it. They pay for more than five days or that gives you time to find her a nursing home bed. This sounds completely fake at this point.

You sound nuts. If you own the house and she's paying rent, in 22 years, it probably has needed repairs. So, if you didn't do those repairs you would be a slum board. Leave the poor woman alone. Drop her off at the hospital and let someone responsible manage her care.