Why do some men check out of their kids' lives after divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex just hasn’t had an involved dad and doesn’t know how to do it, also too lazy to learn. He is perfectly fine with seeing his son on weekends, often without overnights, and the most they do together is go for a walk or get food at a restaurant. Otherwise they play videogames.
I think it’s better than nothing and certainly better than those “involved” dads who just make the lives of moms difficult by always demanding things to be a certain way. At least he doesn’t meddle with DS’s schooling, extracurriculars, etc.
he is a sunday dad and it is what it is.

So he's not involved enough and that's bad and shows he is lazy and inadequate, but if he was actually involved and took an interest in schooling and extracurriculars that would be bad too and show he's a jerk. OK then.

Especially if he happens to have a different opinion than the BM. The horror!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Their ex'es make it impossible for them and turn their children tagaint
them

Man up. I thought men were supposed to be tougher than women. Aren't your kids worth fighting for? Or are these men such wusses that they allow their exwives to dictate the relationship with their kids.

If the courts will not impose consequences, what is a Dad supposed to do? Police will not often enforce custody/visitaiton orders so if mom refuses, its allowed. If you take it to court, judge tells mom to allow dad to see the kids. Mom agrees. Mom refuses Dad, rinse and repeat. They have clear consequences for not paying child support. They have a free way to file for child support. But, they don't have any consequences for visitation/custody refusal except a rare judge AND they don't have a free way so you can spend a fortune and still not be allowed to see your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with those that said out of sight out of mind. I know a family that built a huge custom home in a gated neighborhood. He cheated, divorced, married ap and supports her kids. They all moved into the new home. His ex and his own biological girls are left to rent out a tiny place in a rough area. They are in actual poverty and stark contrast to previous life. They are clearly not the smartest group of people as exwife won't even take him to court for support because she feels its his money and she is proud, nevermind the girls she has to support.

This is on her not to go after child support.

I agree and everyone has told her she is failing the girls in that way. It would not be much but it would make a big difference for them. The girls are the only losers here. The guy gets his new dysfunctional family, the ex gets her "pride" and the girls get squat.

I don't think you understand all the dynamics. She probably doesn't want her kids over there in that mess, and her girls probably don't want to go either. I've seen that quite a few times. Usually Karma ends up biting the cheaters in the butt. They may be happy to be rid of him, the big house...who cares. He'll have newer and bigger problems as is often the case.

Pp here You might be right, the dad works for ICE so he may have that LEO style abusive personality.

I think that's a unfair stereotype, maybe from the agenda media...who knows. My relative works in that field and nothing of the sort.

They come in all occupations pp! Still I would move on if I were the ex wife and kids. He can have his new family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

There is literally nothing that would stop me from trying to get to my kids. I would never, ever give up. And I think most women are the same. Why do men just give up?

Because offspring requires less commitment for males. A man could sire a baby every day all year long if he had access to enough fertile females. It’s a few minutes “work” for him. A woman makes a 10 month investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with those that said out of sight out of mind. I know a family that built a huge custom home in a gated neighborhood. He cheated, divorced, married ap and supports her kids. They all moved into the new home. His ex and his own biological girls are left to rent out a tiny place in a rough area. They are in actual poverty and stark contrast to previous life. They are clearly not the smartest group of people as exwife won't even take him to court for support because she feels its his money and she is proud, nevermind the girls she has to support.

This is on her not to go after child support.

Honestly, don’t criticize the woman - you have no idea what is going on and women are forced by the crappy legal system to make so many trade offs about child support, child custody, child safety, parent safety, and ultimate decision-making power for one’s self and one’s kids.

I personally have chosen to accept a low financial contribution rather than live in fear. To be poor but finally live in peace is preferable for some of us. May you never have to amke that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with those that said out of sight out of mind. I know a family that built a huge custom home in a gated neighborhood. He cheated, divorced, married ap and supports her kids. They all moved into the new home. His ex and his own biological girls are left to rent out a tiny place in a rough area. They are in actual poverty and stark contrast to previous life. They are clearly not the smartest group of people as exwife won't even take him to court for support because she feels its his money and she is proud, nevermind the girls she has to support.

This is on her not to go after child support.

Honestly, don’t criticize the woman - you have no idea what is going on and women are forced by the crappy legal system to make so many trade offs about child support, child custody, child safety, parent safety, and ultimate decision-making power for one’s self and one’s kids.

I personally have chosen to accept a low financial contribution rather than live in fear. To be poor but finally live in peace is preferable for some of us. May you never have to amke that choice.

I don't think it was a criticism. Merely stating it's up to her, and she probably has her reasons. Many times I think it's well worth it to not accept child support if it keeps a horrible sperm donor out of the picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

There is literally nothing that would stop me from trying to get to my kids. I would never, ever give up. And I think most women are the same. Why do men just give up?

Because offspring requires less commitment for males. A man could sire a baby every day all year long if he had access to enough fertile females. It’s a few minutes “work” for him. A woman makes a 10 month investment.

Most men marry for the sex, not the kids. If they let the kids go their behavior says it all. The courts will enforcement child support and whatever custody is on the divorce decree.
If the guy is a crappy dad then yes the woman can easily move on, and find a real father for the kids. I've seen that quite often. Or the man that sires other kids is often broke paying various women, not to mention low class and tacky. They are out there..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

There is literally nothing that would stop me from trying to get to my kids. I would never, ever give up. And I think most women are the same. Why do men just give up?

Because offspring requires less commitment for males. A man could sire a baby every day all year long if he had access to enough fertile females. It’s a few minutes “work” for him. A woman makes a 10 month investment.

Most men marry for the sex, not the kids. If they let the kids go their behavior says it all. The courts will enforcement child support and whatever custody is on the divorce decree.
If the guy is a crappy dad then yes the woman can easily move on, and find a real father for the kids. I've seen that quite often. Or the man that sires other kids is often broke paying various women, not to mention low class and tacky. They are out there..

wow, just wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Wow. You have hit on some serious truths here.

[Anonymous]

Because for mom it's all about the kids.
For big selfish man babies it's all about themselves. I could tell you unbelievable stories.

The best one, one night my five year old got sick at her dad's house. She was vomiting. Had vomited all over her bed. He cleaned the sheets, cleaned her up, gave her a pot to puke in, and went back to bed. Leaving her alone to vomit for the rest of the night.

I would never, ever leave my five year old alone to suffer like that. But he was tired and wanted to go to bed. So he did his duty (clean her) and then left her alone to suffer.

I told that story to my daughter's therapist and the therapist cried.

[Anonymous]

Gross neglect and total lack of caring.

[Anonymous]

Worse than the ones who check out and drop time, are the ones who fight to control you and the kids via custody. The narcissists. They abuse everyone. They hire sitters they never talk to and try to get a Stay at home girlfriend to woo and have her watch and drive the kids around. Need to keep an image up to others. Terrible parent and role model.

[Anonymous]

Read your attitudes. You don’t want the dads involved and run them off. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Wow. You have hit on some serious truths here.

These were really spot on. I’ve even seen some of these in relationships where the mom got serious ill and her invisible labor went undone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

This