My sister is marrying a non-Jew. Help?

[Anonymous]

go to the wedding but only if you can smile and have a good attitude. dont go if you will make pointed comments about your sister not being a good jewish person. (this happened to my sister once - she and her husband are a mixed couple and at a mixed wedding an orthodox couple said to whatever guest would listen that their ancestors were killed in the holocaust and that by marrying a christian, the bride was spitting on the graves on the ancestors killed in the holocaust. NOT ok comments to make at a wedding.)

I would imagine that if you skip the wedding, your relationship with your sister will be over.

[Anonymous]

Disappointed in a world of that still has questions like this. Go if you can be gracious. If your judgment and bigotry can’t be restrained, then skip it. Open your mind. Sad that the world hasn’t grown beyond this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(sympathetic C Jew again) To note the kids will be halachically Jewish (lets leave off with the "culturally Jewish" BS - the kids won't be speaking Yiddish, vaguely aware of Judaism is not "culturally Jewish") and at some point may have curiosity about Judaism. If you, OP, are involved in their lives, and can model a happy successful O life, they may be drawn either to O, or at least to some more Torah focused life.

I would also suggest you talk with an Orthodox rabbi familiar with the situation among non O in America (IE a mainstream modern O rabbi, esp one familiar with BT issues) Not sure a rabbi in Israel would be a good source on the sociology, even if you follow them on halacha.

So the kids are only worth being involved with if they are "halachically" Jewish through the mother? Such bullsh*t reasoning is why the numbers of Jews will decrease in the U.S. My son is not "halachically" Jewish because I (the mom) am not, but I make a lot of effort to educate him and expose him to the faith. If what you're intending is to alienate Jews and decrease your numbers, good job.

Good for you. However halachically Jewish kids will find an easier path to traditional Judaism, especially given that in this case the Jewish parent is an atheist so they will not be educated as Jews.

And that matters, why? Being obsessed with the gender of the Jewish parent only makes the child less likely to find their way to traditional Judaism, because it's so arbitrary. The only reason the path is easier for the halachically Jewish kid is because you discriminated against the non-halachic kid based solely on the gender of the Jewish parent.

You are correct. Interfaith marriages are the reason that Reform Judaism is dying out. While I think the OP is wrong if she doesn’t attend her sidter’s wedding, statistics show that there is a significant chance that her future nieces and nephews will not raise Jewish children.

You're ignoring the point: if Jewish congregations (of all types) were more welcoming to intermarriage and half-Jewish children, then numbers would grow.

On the contrary, Reform, reconstructionist and even conservative synagogues have bent over backwards to welcome everyone and anyone to keep their numbers strong to no avail. Interfaith marriages, same sex marriages, adoption without conversion. It’s not lack of acceptance. It’s the fact that these places of worship lack any seblance to actual religion.

+1. When a religion asks literally nothing of you, it gives nothing back. These liberal denominations are not spiritually nourishing. I’ve seen this among Christians, as well. (I’m Christian.). I went to a ridiculously “welcoming” UU congregation and it was a spiritual sh*tshow. I left (quietly and respectfully) and multiple board members kept basically asking me why I left and how they could “improve.” It’s like a Burger King at these places: “Have it your way!” The food still sucks.

I’m sorry, are you a Reform, Reconstructionist, or Conservative Jew? If not, who are you to say whether people who practice in those denominations feel spiritually nourished? It might not be your “food,” but for those of us who belong and have a relationship with our worship and our community, it certainly doesn’t “suck.” Your post is incredibly offensive—though I do appreciate your use of metaphor.

I was raised Reform and belong to a Reform congregation that does ask a lot of me. I do give a lot back in return. I also read the Torah portion every week, listen to and read commentary, and celebrate Shabbat every week, whether with my family in our home, at temple, or with a wonderful group of friends. And while there are certainly Jews of all denominations who don’t practice or take their affiliation seriously (just as there are Protestants, Catholics, etc wh do the same!) I’m not alone in my relationship to Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not go to the wedding, but have an open-door policy if they want to come over for family celebrations and holidays. I would also take my sister on a girl's trip and tell her how much I love her and will always be there for her, but that I am not coming to the wedding. Particularly with American divorce rates, we have this enormous unnecessary build up to weddings which is just ridiculous on many levels. Real family members love and respect family members' boundaries. OP has a boundary. The sister has a boundary. But it's one day in many years together. In the grand scheme of things, it's one day.

It’s more than just one day, and if op chooses not to go, she’s essentially terminating their relationship. If that’s her goal, fine, but I’d remind her of the old adage that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Her sister is far more likely to explore a return to her Jewish roots, for both herself and any future children, if op keeps the door of their relationship open. Shut that down, and I doubt the sister will ever want to go back to it.

Statistically, they are likely to be divorced in 5 years or fewer. It’s one day - don’t go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(sympathetic C Jew again) To note the kids will be halachically Jewish (lets leave off with the "culturally Jewish" BS - the kids won't be speaking Yiddish, vaguely aware of Judaism is not "culturally Jewish") and at some point may have curiosity about Judaism. If you, OP, are involved in their lives, and can model a happy successful O life, they may be drawn either to O, or at least to some more Torah focused life.

I would also suggest you talk with an Orthodox rabbi familiar with the situation among non O in America (IE a mainstream modern O rabbi, esp one familiar with BT issues) Not sure a rabbi in Israel would be a good source on the sociology, even if you follow them on halacha.

So the kids are only worth being involved with if they are "halachically" Jewish through the mother? Such bullsh*t reasoning is why the numbers of Jews will decrease in the U.S. My son is not "halachically" Jewish because I (the mom) am not, but I make a lot of effort to educate him and expose him to the faith. If what you're intending is to alienate Jews and decrease your numbers, good job.

Good for you. However halachically Jewish kids will find an easier path to traditional Judaism, especially given that in this case the Jewish parent is an atheist so they will not be educated as Jews.

And that matters, why? Being obsessed with the gender of the Jewish parent only makes the child less likely to find their way to traditional Judaism, because it's so arbitrary. The only reason the path is easier for the halachically Jewish kid is because you discriminated against the non-halachic kid based solely on the gender of the Jewish parent.

You are correct. Interfaith marriages are the reason that Reform Judaism is dying out. While I think the OP is wrong if she doesn’t attend her sidter’s wedding, statistics show that there is a significant chance that her future nieces and nephews will not raise Jewish children.

You're ignoring the point: if Jewish congregations (of all types) were more welcoming to intermarriage and half-Jewish children, then numbers would grow.

On the contrary, Reform, reconstructionist and even conservative synagogues have bent over backwards to welcome everyone and anyone to keep their numbers strong to no avail. Interfaith marriages, same sex marriages, adoption without conversion. It’s not lack of acceptance. It’s the fact that these places of worship lack any seblance to actual religion.

+1. When a religion asks literally nothing of you, it gives nothing back. These liberal denominations are not spiritually nourishing. I’ve seen this among Christians, as well. (I’m Christian.). I went to a ridiculously “welcoming” UU congregation and it was a spiritual sh*tshow. I left (quietly and respectfully) and multiple board members kept basically asking me why I left and how they could “improve.” It’s like a Burger King at these places: “Have it your way!” The food still sucks.

Well put. Our church pastor sometimes adds in his lessons, if he says something that doesn't exactly fit with the zeitgeist or what is popular politically...."Thats whats in the Word, I'm just your bible teacher. If you dont like it, feel free to get another bible teacher!"

-signed, an honorary "member of the tribe" since my 3 daughters and wife are technically Jewish under halakah law, and I in fact left the PCA solely over their embracing the Boycott Israel movement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone. So, my sister and I were raised reform, but I got into orthodoxy in college, while she went the other way and dropped it. She's been dating a guy for a while and they got engaged. While my sister and I have a close relationship, I still have qualms about this. Obviously, I want her to be happy, but I'm disappointed at her violation of halacha and throwing away the potential happiness that comes with having a Jewish family.

While it is understandable that she would marry a non-Jew given that she has no connection, I still am not really behind it. The biggest issue (logistically at least) is if I should go to the wedding. I'll need to come back from yeshiva in Israel, to attend an intermarriage wedding, which doesn't seem right to me. It most likely wouldn't be in a church or reform shul, so no problem with that. The problem is my idealogical stance of coming or not.

the word is "Gentile"

unless that is not allowed anymore for some reason {eyeroll}

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone. So, my sister and I were raised reform, but I got into orthodoxy in college, while she went the other way and dropped it. She's been dating a guy for a while and they got engaged. While my sister and I have a close relationship, I still have qualms about this. Obviously, I want her to be happy, but I'm disappointed at her violation of halacha and throwing away the potential happiness that comes with having a Jewish family.

While it is understandable that she would marry a non-Jew given that she has no connection, I still am not really behind it. The biggest issue (logistically at least) is if I should go to the wedding. I'll need to come back from yeshiva in Israel, to attend an intermarriage wedding, which doesn't seem right to me. It most likely wouldn't be in a church or reform shul, so no problem with that. The problem is my idealogical stance of coming or not.

the word is "Gentile"

unless that is not allowed anymore for some reason {eyeroll}

Not polite
Goy is a derogatory term, along with shiksa and she gets
The gentiles know you are being a jerk when you use those words

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(sympathetic C Jew again) To note the kids will be halachically Jewish (lets leave off with the "culturally Jewish" BS - the kids won't be speaking Yiddish, vaguely aware of Judaism is not "culturally Jewish") and at some point may have curiosity about Judaism. If you, OP, are involved in their lives, and can model a happy successful O life, they may be drawn either to O, or at least to some more Torah focused life.

I would also suggest you talk with an Orthodox rabbi familiar with the situation among non O in America (IE a mainstream modern O rabbi, esp one familiar with BT issues) Not sure a rabbi in Israel would be a good source on the sociology, even if you follow them on halacha.

So the kids are only worth being involved with if they are "halachically" Jewish through the mother? Such bullsh*t reasoning is why the numbers of Jews will decrease in the U.S. My son is not "halachically" Jewish because I (the mom) am not, but I make a lot of effort to educate him and expose him to the faith. If what you're intending is to alienate Jews and decrease your numbers, good job.

Good for you. However halachically Jewish kids will find an easier path to traditional Judaism, especially given that in this case the Jewish parent is an atheist so they will not be educated as Jews.

And that matters, why? Being obsessed with the gender of the Jewish parent only makes the child less likely to find their way to traditional Judaism, because it's so arbitrary. The only reason the path is easier for the halachically Jewish kid is because you discriminated against the non-halachic kid based solely on the gender of the Jewish parent.

You are correct. Interfaith marriages are the reason that Reform Judaism is dying out. While I think the OP is wrong if she doesn’t attend her sidter’s wedding, statistics show that there is a significant chance that her future nieces and nephews will not raise Jewish children.

You're ignoring the point: if Jewish congregations (of all types) were more welcoming to intermarriage and half-Jewish children, then numbers would grow.

On the contrary, Reform, reconstructionist and even conservative synagogues have bent over backwards to welcome everyone and anyone to keep their numbers strong to no avail. Interfaith marriages, same sex marriages, adoption without conversion. It’s not lack of acceptance. It’s the fact that these places of worship lack any seblance to actual religion.

+1. When a religion asks literally nothing of you, it gives nothing back. These liberal denominations are not spiritually nourishing. I’ve seen this among Christians, as well. (I’m Christian.). I went to a ridiculously “welcoming” UU congregation and it was a spiritual sh*tshow. I left (quietly and respectfully) and multiple board members kept basically asking me why I left and how they could “improve.” It’s like a Burger King at these places: “Have it your way!” The food still sucks.

I’m sorry, are you a Reform, Reconstructionist, or Conservative Jew? If not, who are you to say whether people who practice in those denominations feel spiritually nourished? It might not be your “food,” but for those of us who belong and have a relationship with our worship and our community, it certainly doesn’t “suck.” Your post is incredibly offensive—though I do appreciate your use of metaphor.

I was raised Reform and belong to a Reform congregation that does ask a lot of me. I do give a lot back in return. I also read the Torah portion every week, listen to and read commentary, and celebrate Shabbat every week, whether with my family in our home, at temple, or with a wonderful group of friends. And while there are certainly Jews of all denominations who don’t practice or take their affiliation seriously (just as there are Protestants, Catholics, etc wh do the same!) I’m not alone in my relationship to Judaism.

Exactly. To the other PP -- how horrible of you to say certain denominations of a religion are not spiritually nourishing. Who are you to say what does and doesn't fulfill someone's spiritual needs?

For me, following a lot of rules and doctrine does NOT fulfill my spiritual needs. Meditation, yoga, and reading about mindfulness and Buddhist concepts of reducing suffering and showing compassion to other humans and animals fulfills me spiritually. That might not work for other people, but I would never say they aren't being spiritually nourished. As long as they aren't hurting other people, who cares what they do, religion-wise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(sympathetic C Jew again) To note the kids will be halachically Jewish (lets leave off with the "culturally Jewish" BS - the kids won't be speaking Yiddish, vaguely aware of Judaism is not "culturally Jewish") and at some point may have curiosity about Judaism. If you, OP, are involved in their lives, and can model a happy successful O life, they may be drawn either to O, or at least to some more Torah focused life.

I would also suggest you talk with an Orthodox rabbi familiar with the situation among non O in America (IE a mainstream modern O rabbi, esp one familiar with BT issues) Not sure a rabbi in Israel would be a good source on the sociology, even if you follow them on halacha.

So the kids are only worth being involved with if they are "halachically" Jewish through the mother? Such bullsh*t reasoning is why the numbers of Jews will decrease in the U.S. My son is not "halachically" Jewish because I (the mom) am not, but I make a lot of effort to educate him and expose him to the faith. If what you're intending is to alienate Jews and decrease your numbers, good job.

Good for you. However halachically Jewish kids will find an easier path to traditional Judaism, especially given that in this case the Jewish parent is an atheist so they will not be educated as Jews.

And that matters, why? Being obsessed with the gender of the Jewish parent only makes the child less likely to find their way to traditional Judaism, because it's so arbitrary. The only reason the path is easier for the halachically Jewish kid is because you discriminated against the non-halachic kid based solely on the gender of the Jewish parent.

You are correct. Interfaith marriages are the reason that Reform Judaism is dying out. While I think the OP is wrong if she doesn’t attend her sidter’s wedding, statistics show that there is a significant chance that her future nieces and nephews will not raise Jewish children.

You're ignoring the point: if Jewish congregations (of all types) were more welcoming to intermarriage and half-Jewish children, then numbers would grow.

On the contrary, Reform, reconstructionist and even conservative synagogues have bent over backwards to welcome everyone and anyone to keep their numbers strong to no avail. Interfaith marriages, same sex marriages, adoption without conversion. It’s not lack of acceptance. It’s the fact that these places of worship lack any seblance to actual religion.

+1. When a religion asks literally nothing of you, it gives nothing back. These liberal denominations are not spiritually nourishing. I’ve seen this among Christians, as well. (I’m Christian.). I went to a ridiculously “welcoming” UU congregation and it was a spiritual sh*tshow. I left (quietly and respectfully) and multiple board members kept basically asking me why I left and how they could “improve.” It’s like a Burger King at these places: “Have it your way!” The food still sucks.

I’m sorry, are you a Reform, Reconstructionist, or Conservative Jew? If not, who are you to say whether people who practice in those denominations feel spiritually nourished? It might not be your “food,” but for those of us who belong and have a relationship with our worship and our community, it certainly doesn’t “suck.” Your post is incredibly offensive—though I do appreciate your use of metaphor.

I was raised Reform and belong to a Reform congregation that does ask a lot of me. I do give a lot back in return. I also read the Torah portion every week, listen to and read commentary, and celebrate Shabbat every week, whether with my family in our home, at temple, or with a wonderful group of friends. And while there are certainly Jews of all denominations who don’t practice or take their affiliation seriously (just as there are Protestants, Catholics, etc wh do the same!) I’m not alone in my relationship to Judaism.

Exactly. To the other PP -- how horrible of you to say certain denominations of a religion are not spiritually nourishing. Who are you to say what does and doesn't fulfill someone's spiritual needs?

For me, following a lot of rules and doctrine does NOT fulfill my spiritual needs. Meditation, yoga, and reading about mindfulness and Buddhist concepts of reducing suffering and showing compassion to other humans and animals fulfills me spiritually. That might not work for other people, but I would never say they aren't being spiritually nourished. As long as they aren't hurting other people, who cares what they do, religion-wise?

Oh grow up with your faux outrage. “How horrible?!” It’s my opinion. Do whatever you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(sympathetic C Jew again) To note the kids will be halachically Jewish (lets leave off with the "culturally Jewish" BS - the kids won't be speaking Yiddish, vaguely aware of Judaism is not "culturally Jewish") and at some point may have curiosity about Judaism. If you, OP, are involved in their lives, and can model a happy successful O life, they may be drawn either to O, or at least to some more Torah focused life.

I would also suggest you talk with an Orthodox rabbi familiar with the situation among non O in America (IE a mainstream modern O rabbi, esp one familiar with BT issues) Not sure a rabbi in Israel would be a good source on the sociology, even if you follow them on halacha.

So the kids are only worth being involved with if they are "halachically" Jewish through the mother? Such bullsh*t reasoning is why the numbers of Jews will decrease in the U.S. My son is not "halachically" Jewish because I (the mom) am not, but I make a lot of effort to educate him and expose him to the faith. If what you're intending is to alienate Jews and decrease your numbers, good job.

Good for you. However halachically Jewish kids will find an easier path to traditional Judaism, especially given that in this case the Jewish parent is an atheist so they will not be educated as Jews.

And that matters, why? Being obsessed with the gender of the Jewish parent only makes the child less likely to find their way to traditional Judaism, because it's so arbitrary. The only reason the path is easier for the halachically Jewish kid is because you discriminated against the non-halachic kid based solely on the gender of the Jewish parent.

You are correct. Interfaith marriages are the reason that Reform Judaism is dying out. While I think the OP is wrong if she doesn’t attend her sidter’s wedding, statistics show that there is a significant chance that her future nieces and nephews will not raise Jewish children.

You're ignoring the point: if Jewish congregations (of all types) were more welcoming to intermarriage and half-Jewish children, then numbers would grow.

On the contrary, Reform, reconstructionist and even conservative synagogues have bent over backwards to welcome everyone and anyone to keep their numbers strong to no avail. Interfaith marriages, same sex marriages, adoption without conversion. It’s not lack of acceptance. It’s the fact that these places of worship lack any seblance to actual religion.

+1. When a religion asks literally nothing of you, it gives nothing back. These liberal denominations are not spiritually nourishing. I’ve seen this among Christians, as well. (I’m Christian.). I went to a ridiculously “welcoming” UU congregation and it was a spiritual sh*tshow. I left (quietly and respectfully) and multiple board members kept basically asking me why I left and how they could “improve.” It’s like a Burger King at these places: “Have it your way!” The food still sucks.

I’m sorry, are you a Reform, Reconstructionist, or Conservative Jew? If not, who are you to say whether people who practice in those denominations feel spiritually nourished? It might not be your “food,” but for those of us who belong and have a relationship with our worship and our community, it certainly doesn’t “suck.” Your post is incredibly offensive—though I do appreciate your use of metaphor.

I was raised Reform and belong to a Reform congregation that does ask a lot of me. I do give a lot back in return. I also read the Torah portion every week, listen to and read commentary, and celebrate Shabbat every week, whether with my family in our home, at temple, or with a wonderful group of friends. And while there are certainly Jews of all denominations who don’t practice or take their affiliation seriously (just as there are Protestants, Catholics, etc wh do the same!) I’m not alone in my relationship to Judaism.

Exactly. To the other PP -- how horrible of you to say certain denominations of a religion are not spiritually nourishing. Who are you to say what does and doesn't fulfill someone's spiritual needs?

For me, following a lot of rules and doctrine does NOT fulfill my spiritual needs. Meditation, yoga, and reading about mindfulness and Buddhist concepts of reducing suffering and showing compassion to other humans and animals fulfills me spiritually. That might not work for other people, but I would never say they aren't being spiritually nourished. As long as they aren't hurting other people, who cares what they do, religion-wise?

Oh grow up with your faux outrage. “How horrible?!” It’s my opinion. Do whatever you want.

PP 06:37

If you don’t have an educated background in an experience, putting labels like you did on that experience is actually offensive. (No “faux” outrage here.) And even if you have experienced religious services that aren’t your cup of tea, the phrase “for me” might be worthwhile in entering your vocabulary: they weren’t spiritually nourishing for me. You have an example of a service that you didn’t enjoy and somehow related it to Jewish groups you haven’t attempted to understand.

What I take offense to is your painting a picture of several Jewish denominations with a very wide brush. Christian worship isn’t for me. I’ve experienced services in various denominations. I didn’t find spiritual fulfillment in any of them. But I would never say those denominations “suck,” nor would I make judgements on denominations I haven’t visited and attempted to understand.

[Anonymous]

PP, the analogy was the “food still sucks.” I’m sorry you’re so easily offended by the word “suck.” Life must be very hard for you.

[Anonymous]

^^^ By the way, I’m offended by your inability to tolerate colorful language without launching into a pedantic tirade about what’s “offensive.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, the analogy was the “food still sucks.” I’m sorry you’re so easily offended by the word “suck.” Life must be very hard for you.

I’m offended by your misunderstanding of the word “analogy.” Remember your SAT prep? Food:religions you don’t like.

It’s not the word itself that offends me; I cuss like a sailor IRL. But if you tell me my belief system sucks, I’m probably going to get upset.

[Anonymous]

If you ever want to have a relationship with your sister again, stop being so judgmental and go to the wedding. It’s a no brained, unless you don’t care if you ever have a relationship with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, the analogy was the “food still sucks.” I’m sorry you’re so easily offended by the word “suck.” Life must be very hard for you.

I’m offended by your misunderstanding of the word “analogy.” Remember your SAT prep? Food:religions you don’t like.

It’s not the word itself that offends me; I cuss like a sailor IRL. But if you tell me my belief system sucks, I’m probably going to get upset.

Yes, I actually got a perfect score. Now I’m offended by your maligning of sailors. How horrible!