DW work is impacting our marriage - looking for advice from the smart people of DCUM

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Comparing his first 7 years to her last 3 years isn't apples to oranges. He had the entire financial burden of the family to carry. That's not to blame her -- she was doing her part by maintaining the home front. But the fact is that she's not confronting a similar financial situation when making decisions about how to balance work and family.

OP isn’t worried about the financial burden, apparently. He just cannot handle the burden of deciding if it’s spaghetti or filet for dinner every night, and thinks this should be up to his wife. Well, that and the whole she should be available for sex thing.


OP had his wife’s support for YEARS, in a much more difficult transaction (being SAH). She supported his needs and wants for years. He wouldn’t likely be in the position he is now without her. Her income after many years out of the workforce is nothing to sneeze at, plus it sounds she feels work is part of her identity. It’s her turn. What he is being asked to do is no more than a lot of women are this board are tasked with.

I just think OP likes to feel like “the man” and has certain gender role sterotypes in his mind, whether he sees it or not.

You are so absorbed in your political rhetoric that you've lost sight of the fact that this woman is spending almost zero time with her children. That is not the norm for working moms.

You made that up. She's home for dinner at least 4 nights a week and spends all weekend with them. More time than he spent with them when she was a SAHM.

People on this board are such zealots that they can't even argue from a position of good faith.

Actually op never said one way or other what occurs on weekends, but that his wife is not home for 90 percent of weeknight dinners. You actually are the one making assumptions that aren't based on what has been posted.

He said point blank that she's home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. He also said she dedicates all her energy to the kids and he's left with "scraps." I get that you think you're really sticking it to feminists or whatever, but you're misrepresenting the thread.

This is taken verbatim from op's first post post:

know she is trying to make up for "lost" time and I don't mind that she works but getting home at 8pm or later everyday does not a happy home make.That said, she really loves what she does and it shows. She pours her heart and soul into her work and that leaves very little for us at home. What is leftover goes to the kids.

I guess the way we comprehend that -- "whatever is leftover" sounds like a lot less to me than you. I've always made six figures as a working mom, and I can count on one hand the number of times I've missed dinner with my kids. Arguing that this woman's home life is just like any other working woman is a farce.

Yes, that was the first post. And this is from his response later: OP here.

I can see both perspectives on the above and based on one of the PP's advice of talking about expectations, I think DW and I need to develop our own set of expectations for each other. I do think it's reasonable for her to be home at least twice a week for dinner. I don't think she needs to cook dinner because we can use something like galley or prepared foods that we can just heat up. The conversation at the table is different when everyone is there (the kids and I are definitely more sillier when mommy is not around) and DW and I talk more together when we're eating with the family - this is based on my observations of when we go out to eat on the weekends.

So yes, they go out to eat as a family every weekend. She comes home for at least one weeknight meal a week to get to his 90% figure. You're judging her for being more present than he was when she was staying home. Saying that no other working mom gets home late on weeknights -- that to say such a thing could be true is a "farce" -- is not true. It's just you are fine with fathers checking out, putting "all their effort" into work, traveling frequently, etc., for the first SEVEN years of their kids' lives, but a mom missing some weeknight dinners and not being the person to pack lunches once they're in school is "almost zero time with her children" and "a complete farce." This is, once again, you grinding an axe. Not factual or even reasonable.

Nope, do you read? I have said repeatedly that every parent should be home by dinnertime the majority of the time, but op never said he was not since we are focusing on what was actually written. If he too missed 90 percent of weeknight dinners, that was bad parenting on his part. One can work and not be described as giving their children "whatever is left over." What axe exactly am I grinding that you find objectionable-- the parents should be spending weeknights with their children?

DP, OP said his work was suffering for him being the one to come home for dinner every night. Tends to suggest that for work to go well, he can't be home as much. So if you're going to take this position, maybe you should also be talking about OP's need to find a different job where he won't face that conflict.

So blame the parent who is currently spending time with the kid? Your poor husband, you sure have it out for men. BTW, he said 'The crazy part for me, is that I bring in 80% of our income and my job is suffering because I have to take care of all the household activities."

Believe or not, women and men both can be bad parents.

Portable goalposts, that's handy!

Whatever, you are hopeless. All you want to hear is that the dh is entirely at fault. Ask yourself why that is.

You're interacting with different people. You've gone from saying this woman is spending zero time with her kids (false) to saying she doesn't see them on the weekends (false) to saying any parent missing weeknight dinners is a bad parent (hmmm, maybe...) to saying, when confronted with proof that OP evidently was in the habit of missing dinners now that attending to dinners is getting him in trouble at work: don't blame him, he's the good one! Your poor husband! (hmmmmmmmmmm, apparently not!).

You do not allow any new information (not that it should be new, if you'd read the thread) to affect your preconceived idea that OP's wife is a bad mother, a claim he has never once made himself. You don't seem very reasonable, and it's not clear what you're getting out of this thread other than to continuously assert that you are a better mother than a woman you've never met, on the basis of ... well that's the question.

I think you are projecting -- I just agreed withpip that his wife was working too much. Why have kids if you'd rather work late at the office, instead of seeing them and bringing work home to do afterwards, if you must? This just seems to trigger a lot of posters who apparently regularly pick work over their kids, don't have sex with their husbands often, and look for sexism everywhere.
Typical DCUM, I guess.

Done with this thread, you can continue to argue why op is a horrible person, but his wife is an unappreciated martyr.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Not a married man (married woman), but can we please not set up this nonsense? A healthy relationship should include sex and conservation, and setting it up as an either/or is needlessly antagonistic and divisive.

[Anonymous]

You're supposed to be married for a lifetime and the building-a-career-and-young-kids phase only lasts 5-10 years. Stick it out and things will get better. Cheat or leave and you'll be unhappy and poorer forever.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Not a married man (married woman), but can we please not set up this nonsense? A healthy relationship should include sex and conservation, and setting it up as an either/or is needlessly antagonistic and divisive.

DP, but I don’t think it’s nonesense. In many contexts, men would defend their “right” to sex. Let them.

I’m assuming in their context. A woman would defeat her right to an understand partner, as she spent so many years considering his needs above her own.

I know, I know, women are supposed to be happy on either side of the fence, but not supposed to pine for the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be completely honest, if I was your wife and you laid all of this out for me, if would be so alienating to hear that you don't really care that we don't spend much time together outside the bedroom. I imagine it would be very hurtful that your primary interest in me as a partner is as a warm body for you to stick your penis in, and beyond that I'm largely irrelevant except to the extent that I also fawn over all of your contributions to stroke your ego. I mean, you note the lack of conversation but don't include it in your list of things you want, and that speaks volumes.

OP here. This is a fair assessment and yes it does speak volumes. Not trying to make an excuse but maybe that's the difference in needs between a man and a woman. Conversation would be great but that's a bonus to me.

+1000. Amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM women refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally differently men and women define a happy marriage

It is amazing (actually, not really) how many DCUM men refuse to recognize and acknowledge how fundamentally offensive it is that men care more about having sex than having a conversation with their wife. The OP straight up admits that conversation is an added bonus but not the thing he actually cares about.

If I found out that my husband thought about me that way, the absolute last thing I would want to do is have more sex with him. You can sit here and talk about sexual connection as being essential to a healthy marriage until the sun goes down, but that the OP and several of the presumably male posters on this thread care more about having sex with their wives than talking to them is offensive as hell. Do your wives know how little you think of them as people, or do you not have wives because your attitude is so off-putting to women?

news flash. you husband does think this way, he is just smooth enough to not let you know that. Pretty much all straight, married men would rather have sex than conversation. This doesn't make them assholes this is just how most men are wired. I am a feminist but even I don't pretend that men are anything other than what they are. Women continue to think that men are some kind of magical creatures and they arent that complicated.

You know, I don't agree with you that that's "how men are" but even if I did, just because someone is an asshole doesn't make it okay that they're an asshole. There are some supposedly innate qualities that are actually not virtuous and should be changed. This is one of them. If you only care about having sex, don't bother getting married. Just pay someone to have sex with you as many times per week as you want. If you care about seeing your wife, maybe consider that wives are not machines that you put things like "conversation" into and have things like "sex" pop out.

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Not a married man (married woman), but can we please not set up this nonsense? A healthy relationship should include sex and conservation, and setting it up as an either/or is needlessly antagonistic and divisive.

DP, but I don’t think it’s nonesense. In many contexts, men would defend their “right” to sex. Let them.

I’m assuming in their context. A woman would defeat her right to an understand partner, as she spent so many years considering his needs above her own.

I know, I know, women are supposed to be happy on either side of the fence, but not supposed to pine for the other.

Married woman again, I prefer not to assume that all men fit the asshole paradigm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Married man here - mid 40s, 3 kids (teens/pre-teens). I can't see this as an either/or scenario - it's a false choice. I am in a deeply committed and loving marriage and I enjoy my DW's company (i.e., conversation). At the same time though, I would like to have a lot more of sex with DW than we are currently having.

Here's the ugly truth that seems to get lost in all these arguments. As much as conversation (i.e., the 'emotional connection') is more likely needed by women, it's difficult (not impossible) for most men to be able to connect w/o intimacy. Now some women may not like to hear that and will undoubtedly jump on this statement, but there are ugly truths that can be applied to both genders - doesn't make things right or easier, but each one has to find a way to meet in the middle, in a manner of speaking.

[Anonymous]

Anthropologically speaking, OP is the alpha male silverback whose evolution has led him to expect that with success comes frequent reproductive opportunities. It was a similar situation for the khans and their harems. Unfortunately he lives in a society where females have a achieved a level of equality in the workplace where they are no longer required to be as submissive to the alpha male to survive. For everyone saying "that's just how men are," this is my answer: "this is just how society is now."

If you don't like this, there are a few alternatives I have seen men pursue: divorce wife and pursue rich bachelor lifestyle, divorce wife and select mail-order-bride or other woman who is beholden enough to you that she must be submissive, stay in marriage and cheat frequently, or stay in marriage and hire prostitutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Married man here - mid 40s, 3 kids (teens/pre-teens). I can't see this as an either/or scenario - it's a false choice. I am in a deeply committed and loving marriage and I enjoy my DW's company (i.e., conversation). At the same time though, I would like to have a lot more of sex with DW than we are currently having.

Here's the ugly truth that seems to get lost in all these arguments. As much as conversation (i.e., the 'emotional connection') is more likely needed by women, it's difficult (not impossible) for most men to be able to connect w/o intimacy. Now some women may not like to hear that and will undoubtedly jump on this statement, but there are ugly truths that can be applied to both genders - doesn't make things right or easier, but each one has to find a way to meet in the middle, in a manner of speaking.

And most women won’t jump on intimacy (pun intended) without the emotional connection.

As a woman, I’d say it’s harder to have sex than have a conversation first, but maybe I’m wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I would like for some married men to weigh in-you work full time, have kids, married more than a few years--would you rather have sex or conversation with your wife?

Married man here - mid 40s, 3 kids (teens/pre-teens). I can't see this as an either/or scenario - it's a false choice. I am in a deeply committed and loving marriage and I enjoy my DW's company (i.e., conversation). At the same time though, I would like to have a lot more of sex with DW than we are currently having.

Here's the ugly truth that seems to get lost in all these arguments. As much as conversation (i.e., the 'emotional connection') is more likely needed by women, it's difficult (not impossible) for most men to be able to connect w/o intimacy. Now some women may not like to hear that and will undoubtedly jump on this statement, but there are ugly truths that can be applied to both genders - doesn't make things right or easier, but each one has to find a way to meet in the middle, in a manner of speaking.

And most women won’t jump on intimacy (pun intended) without the emotional connection.

As a woman, I’d say it’s harder to have sex than have a conversation first, but maybe I’m wrong.

that's the point the PP was making - for it to work and to work w/o resentment, both sides need to find that middle ground for what works for them as a couple. It just can't be one sided in terms of "meet my needs first".

- I'm a married woman BTW

[Anonymous]

what are these jobs where you make 500k before 40 and even have time to cook dinners?
amen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unhealthy Bizarre PP here. That is exactly my point. What OP's wife is doing is not healthy either. It's what a woman does who does not really want her husband anymore. I know plenty of good wives. Whether they work or not they take a deep interest in their kids' welfare and that of their husbands. OP's wife is completely unapologetic about letting him shoulder the burden. Have you considered that the reason she is working insanely is to a) escape the drudgery of momming in the present AND b) to establish her financial security in the future? When you are only remaining in the marriage for the kids this is how you think. I am just trying to open OP's eyes to the reality.

This is exactly the same thing I was just about to write. I’m sorry OP but I think your wife has checked out and is setting herself up financially to be on her own. If you truly make $500k then I don’t understand why she is working so late every night and focusing on work so much. I would think she would try to have some balance and be there for the kids and with you. Right now she isnt prioritizing anyone but herself. She probably got burnt out and fed up by being a SAHM all those years. Now she has some freedom and would rather be at work than at home dealing with the day to day drudgery. That or... she’s having an affair with someone at work and has to “ stay late” a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women like this do NOT change and suddenly start having sex. It is a lost cause. You can go down a path of extreme frustration and eventually divorce or you can find someone that likes orgasms and start living a life in colors. Your kids will do better with you being happy.

Give up on her.

my experience also. she is another DCUM sexless wife

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Female here and i got a kick out of you clarifying the emotional load with the “..If that makes sense.” Oh yes, haha, it sure does. I guarantee you that at leas 3/4 of us reading are women and believe me you don’t need to explain

I have a couple of questions:

-Whose idea was it for her to go back to work?

-Be really honest: were you comfortable financially before she went back? I know you said you make 80 pc of the HHI but how much do you make? (Approx)

(I am trying to figure out her motivations here)

-Is she into sex in general? How much sex did you have before?

-Did you show appreciation before? For everything she was doing?

-How much of your joint load right now can be outsourced? Have you thought outside the box with that? For instance, think about what you can outsource even if it doesn’t feel like it might be immediately helpful with your 8pm issue. Then try to move other stuff around, which CAN be helpful with your 8pm issue.

I’ll report back with my thoughts if you answer!

This is OP.

It was always understood that she would go back to work, because she wanted to. It took her a while to get call backs and interviews and I think she will say that I was 100% supportive - more emotional support than anything else because her resume and interviewing capabilities were just fine.

When she went back to work, I was making ~$350k. My income along in the last couple years has been ~$500k. When I say that we don't need her paycheck, she wasn't going back for the money. She really loved what she was doing (still does) and she would probably work for free if they didn't pay her.

She really isn't into sex, meaning, she doesn't initiate. But she hasn't denied me when I've initiated. Prior to kids, we were probably 3x week.

Admittedly, I didn't show as much appreciation or gratitude as I could have. I probably took a lot of it for granted. That wasn't to say I was a jerk but I didn't go out of my way to thank her for what she was doing everyday for our family, our kids and me. She really is a thoughtful person and puts her heart into her work. I like to say that she cooks with TLC whereas, I just cook the food to make sure that we have something to eat.

We outsource house cleaning. We have a part time nanny. I was thinking about subscribing to some type of food delivery service - not like a Blue Apron or Hello Fresh but someone, an actual person, who actually cooks the meals and drops it off daily. I know it'll be pricier but more than anything it'll save some of the mental burden of figuring out what to eat every day. That's the hardest thing. I've standardized the kids breakfast and lunches. They eat the same thing everyday. They don't seem to mind too much but it would be nice to work in more variety (I digress).

Thank you for your questions and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

I didn't read this whole thread, but I just want to say that if my husband said this to me, I would probably quit my job or do just about whatever else he wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anthropologically speaking, OP is the alpha male silverback whose evolution has led him to expect that with success comes frequent reproductive opportunities. It was a similar situation for the khans and their harems. Unfortunately he lives in a society where females have a achieved a level of equality in the workplace where they are no longer required to be as submissive to the alpha male to survive. For everyone saying "that's just how men are," this is my answer: "this is just how society is now."

If you don't like this, there are a few alternatives I have seen men pursue: divorce wife and pursue rich bachelor lifestyle, divorce wife and select mail-order-bride or other woman who is beholden enough to you that she must be submissive, stay in marriage and cheat frequently, or stay in marriage and hire prostitutes.

Interesting fact: among primates, a harem social structure is correlated with very small male reproductive organs. Since females mate with one male only, there is no need for large quantities of sperm. A silverback gorilla’s penis is about the size of your pinky (true, you can look it up).

Therefore, we can assume men who spout off nonsense about harems likely have very small penises.