Husband is dying - no life insurance or savings, I’m a SAHM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he dies and you’re still married, you can file for social security survivor benefits. It’s not taxable and will be around $700/kid/month till they are 19.

Depending on his earnings it may be higher.

Here’s some basic info OP: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10085.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Husband is an alcoholic. He has cirrhosis, chronic pancreatitis, PVT, and hepatic encephalopathy. He’s in the hospital. Again. This happens every few months and it’s just a matter of time.

We are currently separated bc the chaos of living under the same roof as him was unbearable.

I’ve done everything in my power to hold the household and the kids together. 3 kids under age 10. At first I was hopeful he’d get better but recovery never sticks. He doesn’t want to stop drinking.

He’s an impulsive spender. Never plans. Never communicates. Loves to put things on credit cards. He switched jobs recently and his group life insurance policy sucks. The payout is less than one year of his salary. So it’s essentially non-existant. We have no savings. No college funds for kids. We have $600k equity in the house. $350k retirement funds. Pulled a credit report on my husband and between house, cars, and consumer credit cards, he owes $915k. ($750k is the house. $40k cars. $70k HELOC. The rest is consumer CC debt.) Every single debt is in his name.

I’m horrified by the debt. I begrudgingly signed off on the heloc. Then the cars were purchased without my approval. I had no idea he had so much credit card debt… but he had to hide how much he was drinking and never makes more than minimum payments..

So now that I know he’s dying and I know we’re screwed financially, what on earth can I do? I plan to return to work in the fall (teacher) but that won’t get us very far.

Are you living in the house or is he? How much is the other party paying in rent?

Can he be discharged to rehab? Have you had conversations with his doctors? Does he have short term disability through work?

I would not be so sure he is actively dying, alcoholics can linger. You need a financial plan if he lives and one if he does not. You need to speak to a lawyer.

How many teaching jobs have you applied for? Is your license current?

Al Anon for you, find an online meeting this weekend. You need to get very informed and practical with lawyer and financial planner and strategize around the emotional stuff with the free Al Anon folks.

Something is up with you, too, that you have such young kids, and so many, with someone in such bad shape. And that you quit your job, trapping yourself. You really have to get it together, OP. I'm guessing your family of origin involved alcoholism too? Do you have any extended family nearby to help?

I’ve been in Al Anon for a long time. Something was up with me. I operated on hope and potential for a very long time. I was in denial. I thought he’d get better. I thought he was telling me the truth. Now I know better, it’s a progressive disease. If your gut tells you something is off… it is. I learned the hard way as many women in Al Anon do.

If you saw my husband you would NEVER guess that he’s dying of alcoholism. He’s well educated and attractive. Has an impressive career. His extended family members are all white collar and well educated. Beautiful homes and children. And most of them have alcohol issues. My husband is definitely the worst though.

I was a SAHM bc the kids are little -preschool and ES- and my husband travels for work. This is not unusual. Teacher salary is less than childcare x 3. I always planned to return when the youngest gets to kindergarten.

I’ve been doing initial consults for weeks. I think I’ve settled on a family law attorney. I just wanted to gather some more baseline info here.

I’m in the marital home. He has an apartment and refuses inpatient treatment. He always does outpatient so he can keep working and pretend he doesn’t have a problem.

OP, I have been in your shoes to some extent. (Husband more in peril from death via alcohol toxicity than chronicity, we had only one kid, and I was the earner). It was hard AF and what you are doing is exponentially harder. I just want you to know that I see you and am rooting for you.

Of the things this man could be to your family now, he is a bad emotional participant, you now know he is a net negative in assets—so you will not come out of a divorce ahead of where you are, personally, now—but it sounds like he may be earning.

How is he (/how are you) tolerating him paying for your separated households at this point? Is he basically doing this without complaint, and are you basically OK with it for now?

You are going to come out a little ahead if he dies than if you divorce him, it sounds like. And where you are now, “a little ahead” could be a huge difference.

When I was in my late teens I received a $2000 bequest from a grandmother who had personally worked for pay for a vanishingly short time (in a textile mill). She had saved this money from the benefits she received from my grandfather’s Social Security; although she had not worked for pay in decades, he had paid in via 30+ years of work in the mills, and then as a bus driver.

So: see the many PPs about Social Security death benefits—I would definitely consider visiting your Social Security office to walk through how they work if you have not already, since they will be as important to you as privately-purchased life insurance might have been. (Obviously Social Security does not go as far as it used to.)

Anyway, the bequest came via my dad, who said I could use it on what I wanted but had already communicated in various ways that women were always better off with some “break glass in case of” money.

The $2000 is still in my bank account—I got lucky and didn’t have to break the glass. Hoping the same for you and your kids.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read every page so who knows what has already been said. Based on your finances and assumes DH dies fairly soon, you actually do have some decent resources.

Sell the house as soon as you can and with the equity, buy a townhouse in as good a school district as possible, in cash. Leave the DMV entirely if doable - you don't need to go far, places like Howard County or Loudoun will have 500-600k townhouses with good schools.

You'll be mortgage free. Go back to teaching. Keep adding to your retirement. You'll get by. Issue will be kids' college funding but it'll have to be one day at a time and focus on state schools, starting at CCs then transferring in state for last two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for you but why no job and three kids? Seems like you also made terrible choices.

Are you always this heartless???

Soren’s I just can’t imagine what posters here are thinking when they are beyond cruel like this.

It’s heartless but the truth. OP needs a job. It’s really that simple. She won’t get one for the same reasons she hasn’t been working.

Continuing to have kids with an alcoholic and not working but then asking for help when time is up?

I mean OP said in her first post that she was getting a job, but you probably know better.

Teaching jobs for fall hire NOW. OP could also be subbing for income and a reference. She said she planned to get a job, she hasn't shared any concrete steps.

OP needs to be more active and less reactive. The dysfunction of living with an addict carries over. She knew he was sick enough not to live with but still did not seek immediate income and legal advice. Teaching > subbing, tutoring, etc.

OP needs to try to get him fully diagnosed and optimally, discharged to rehab from the hospital. The hospital may have AA meetings. She needs to shore up the situation to maximize her options.

Which is why she is asking for advice, which you clearly have. Just lay off the shaming. it isn't helpful at all.

I don’t think we are shaming, just pointing out that she has some agency in all of this too. Three kids don’t suddenly appear out of nowhere. She made this choice, with this guy. Now she needs to start making better choices. Like finding a job vs attending Al Anon meetings.

Alcoholism is a family disease. OP needs the continual support of AlAnon to heal herself. OP, don't let posters disparage your support from AlAnon meetings. Continue to prioritize your AlAnon meetings. It is tough having an active alcoholic, not in recovery, in the family.

OP says has $2k to her name in liquid assets. She could not even sign a lease right now without a job. She can attend Al Anon meetings online after the kids are asleep, daily if she wants. She needs to not miss the HIRING CYCLE FOR TEACHERS and apply for JOBS. OP, send your resume and cover letter to 2 friends this weekend and have them look it over. Start applying on Monday.

[Anonymous]

Do you live in that house?

[Anonymous]

I’ve been doing initial consults for weeks. I think I’ve settled on a family law attorney. I just wanted to gather some more baseline info here.

OP, you may do better financially staying married rather than divorcing. You need to run numbers with a lawyer and financial planner. "Here" is not the place to be getting info to base your decisions. You need to factor a number of things, SS being an important one, if he dies soon or lives for years. Base your decision on data rather than vibes or a desire to "cut off" the current situation for emotional reasons. How has the lawyer said his debt impacts you, while married? Divorced? That is also very important.

What do you think is keeping you from actively applying for jobs right now so you can start in August? Do you have insight into that? Anyone from Al Anon or ACoA can tell you they tend to be "reactors not actors" but you need to snap out of the fog and also not overcompensate and behave impulsively. Divorce may not be the best option at all, at least before you are established in a career again. If he is going to die soon, may be far better to be married, talk to a lawyer and financial planner. But is he going to die soon?

What do his doctors say right now? Prognosis? Discharge date? Alcohol inpatient treatment? Bipolar? Anyone in his family mentally ill? Bipolar and alcoholism are VERY common together, rehab will not work until any underlying mood/impulsivity disorder is treated. It's key. His impulsivity and spending are classic bipolar patterns. The hospital can probably do a psych eval and is a great place to try meds since they can test to see how his liver does with them.

I figured he traveled and may be in sales. Also common for this personality type. How is he being paid right now?

[Anonymous]

OP, you may want to reconsider starting with a family attorney unless you are dead set on a divorce even if it will come at a financial cost. A family attorney will do what they specialize in: divorce and custody. They won't help you make the decision on whether divorce is the best financial decision under the circumstances. For that, I would talk to a financial planner, and an estate attorney. That is, if priority #1 is preserving your family's financial viability, don't start with a family attorney. If, on the other hand, priority #1 is getting divorced, start with a family attorney. (And, to put it even more bluntly, it is in a family attorney's best interest for you to divorce)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you may want to reconsider starting with a family attorney unless you are dead set on a divorce even if it will come at a financial cost. A family attorney will do what they specialize in: divorce and custody. They won't help you make the decision on whether divorce is the best financial decision under the circumstances. For that, I would talk to a financial planner, and an estate attorney. That is, if priority #1 is preserving your family's financial viability, don't start with a family attorney. If, on the other hand, priority #1 is getting divorced, start with a family attorney. (And, to put it even more bluntly, it is in a family attorney's best interest for you to divorce)

This.

-an attorney

OP, you need to go about this more systematically. Meet with an estate attorney and a financial planner and get data re: your finances.

Do not lurch from under reacting to the situation for years to catastrophizing and trying to "cut off" the situation/emotions. You want to make the best decision based on data. One scenario if he dies soon, one if he lives for years. One if married, one if divorced. Only if divorce is financially optimal should you meet with family attorneys. I suspect it may not be, in the short term.

He has already incurred debt, find out how it impacts you. There is no urgency re: divorce now, but there does need to be urgency in applying for teaching jobs when the hiring season is NOW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. We are separated. Does it make sense to go ahead and get divorced? Could that save me financially? That was actually my plan until his most recent hospitalization and then I felt guilty divorcing somebody who is dying.

i don't think it makes sense. if he doesn't have a will and won't make one, intestate is much easier if there is a spouse. also you'd lose 250k of the gains exclusion on the house.

the credit card debt and any medical bills are unsecured and fall behind all other creditors to his estate.

mortgage and heloc: follow the house. are you on the title? if you are not on the title you definitely do not want to divorce.

car debt: secured by cars.

estate debt precedence:

family, homestead, default allowances: $64000 in assets to spouse/family
funeral costs
administrative costs
debts.

anything that is TOD/beneficiary transfers to you outside of probate. there's some chance that they'd try to come after funds from the life insurance but the ($55k?) in credit card debt can be legally told to pound sand. do not make any payments or talk to anyone about those accounts.

you'll need about 5-10 death certificates.

each child should receive social security survivors benefits until they turn 18 or graduate high school. each child should receive monthly payments of about 60% of what his social security benefit would be. as a spouse you'll receive a $255 one time payment. it'll take a few months to get it set up but the payments will be retroactive to death.

Call the social security office the day he dies. A friend whose husband died told me that the social security benefits begin the day the death is reported to them, not the date of the actual death. Not many people are thinking of calling the social security office when they're facing the death of a partner, but you loose money if you don't. Sending hugs and good wishes to you and your family.

Use his SSN to pull a credit report so you know about every open account before you report his death to the SSA.

[Anonymous]

OP, you are in the DC area?

I work in PGCPS. People look down on our school district but I have found it to be a good place to work. And they are hiring for most positions and give credit for all your years worked in another district. They also pay an extra $13,000 salary boost if you earn your NBCT.

New salary scale here:

https://pgcea.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/FY-25-PGCEA-Tables-ABC-effec-7.1.2024.pdf


But if your former employment was in VA or DC Id stay there since you have paid into that state's pension system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are in the DC area?

I work in PGCPS. People look down on our school district but I have found it to be a good place to work. And they are hiring for most positions and give credit for all your years worked in another district. They also pay an extra $13,000 salary boost if you earn your NBCT.

New salary scale here:

https://pgcea.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/FY-25-PGCEA-Tables-ABC-effec-7.1.2024.pdf


But if your former employment was in VA or DC Id stay there since you have paid into that state's pension system.

This is good advice, OP. Try to build up pension in 1 jurisdiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. We are separated. Does it make sense to go ahead and get divorced? Could that save me financially? That was actually my plan until his most recent hospitalization and then I felt guilty divorcing somebody who is dying.

*Please* talk to a lawyer and get good legal advice. Do not rely on anything you read here!

[Anonymous]

OP, what is his attitude towards you and the kids, as he is hospitalized? Is he at all concerned about them and their financial future?

Would he be at all agreeable to working with you to sell your house, and taking the equity to buy a small place, a condo or townhouse, that you could afford to maintain on a teacher's salary?

I feel like that definitely needs to be your future. You simply cannot afford to live in this house without his income, and even if he recovers, he surely cannot work for much longer. The life insurance one time payout isn't enough money to replace the income you guys were counting on.

Selling the house will clear the mortgage and the HELOC. Using the equity to buy a house in your name should protect it from other creditors, I believe, should he pass away.

If your husband owns your house in his name only, that's a big problem I think. I think you need it to be in your name somehow.

[Anonymous]

Op,

Talk to an atty about how you can protect yourself from additional debt that he could get you in. Start making plans to go back to work when youngest is entering kindergarten...which may be soon.

Exactly how close to death is he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op,

Talk to an atty about how you can protect yourself from additional debt that he could get you in. Start making plans to go back to work when youngest is entering kindergarten...which may be soon.

Exactly how close to death is he?

This is not knowable. He could hemorrhage from an esophageal varices tonight and that’s it. Or he could hang on for another 5-10 years. Death via chronic poisoning is hard to predict.

OP, thinking of you and all you are doing for your kids today.